Land

Talvin, my apologies ...  the pseudo-term I used was an inaccurate representation of what I was thinking. From what I see in secondlife, of course there are gamers, but many are not strictly gamers ...  instead people who like to tinker and have at least some tolerance for technical computer related stuff.

The audience with that tolerance and patience is small. The audience is one that is willing to invest time in learning a non-standard web interface interface. The audience is equipped with above average computer hardware and internet access (if their experience in SL is to be relatively smooth). Which is why 30 - 60 thousand people are logged into SL at anyone time, versus the millions upon millions logged into the rest of the internet.

I hear what you are saying. You have seen a benefit from the SL platform. What confuses me is that there are a wide range of web tools, etc. as I referenced above, that on the surface appear to me to have a greater potential for promoting the various causes, for educating, and for creating a community that is accessible to a much larger portion of the average population ... thereby perhaps providing more real benefit to a larger segment of population, and accessing more of the population that can fund the good causes of those non-profits.

The bang for the buck is important for non profits. When I have visited some of the educational/non-profit sims in my first month or so, they sure seemed awfully bare. My question was genuine, as I have seen a couple of others post here who have had the same experience. Of course that does not mean that my narrow exposure represents the actual state of things, but it did make me curious about whether the majority of non-profits are getting the optimal return for their investment in SL, and beyond that getting the return for their investment that they expected when they first signed up in SL. Obviously, it has been your experience that they do.

hahahah you just have to love it.....NOW LL is deleting any posts that they consider "competition" lmao looks like they are starting to wake up a little bit at the Lab.

"I think  you educational non-for-profits have to realize one thing you never ever  seem to do. There is no endless supply of money for anyone."

Exactly. especially with persons like Anshe Chung receiving big time discounts. Someone has to pay teh price. Right?

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

Mmmhmmm....I'm starting to think this is just another piece of the puzzle we have seen this year....and all these huge changes seem to point to some plan that may be covered under a non-disclosure agreement. It could indicate this has been in the works for some time now...possibly from the time of the big layoff and M's departure???? Look at all that has happened in just the last 6-9 months. (In no particular order) 1/3 of the workforce was laid off, international offices were closed, the enterprise project was dropped, AU was acquired and closed, adult content was "contained", a rush to get the new marketplace online, a buggy new viewer that became the official viewer even though it was still beta, the upcoming closure of the teen grid and allowing 16-18 year-olds on the main grid, LL no longer sponsoring Burning Life, non-profits no longer receiving discounts for land, 3D mesh coming next month for open testing.....and I'm sure there's more that I have forgotten. It all seems to be making sense to me now. SL is Philip's baby, and our pleas and cries for help must truly be breaking his heart. But, face it kids...I think LL is in the midst of an aquisition. Then again, what do I know?

Great news!

Finally we can get rid of those who spend time in SL doing good! And not to forget all those bad people who might want to use SL to make the RL world better.

I hate those!

Each project has its own mission.  The return on investment is different for each one.

That's true for recreational users and for profit businesses as well as educational and non-profit projects.  For some, the benefits outweigh the costs, for some they don't.

Each project has its own mission.  The return on investment is different for each one.

That's true for recreational users and for profit businesses as well as educational and non-profit projects.  For some, the benefits outweigh the costs, for some they don't.

Yep. I occasionally state the obvious and forget the point of the original question myself.

hahahah you just have to love it.....NOW LL is deleting any posts that they consider "competition" lmao looks like they are starting to wake up a little bit at the Lab.

are they?  haha

I was wondering how long they were going to allow discussion of migration to....

OpenSim

I couldn't agree more Om. I've see way too much wishful thinking and self-delusion -- "It's supposed to work, so it will." But anyone without clouded vision can see there isn't much going on. It won't work. It can't work. (This doesn't make me very popular in the SLED world. )

The main problem is that the school people are trying to find ways to make a new technology fit their old education paradigms. That notion has to be turned around:  Find how the new techology is transforming the education paradigms ... and start from there.

Nelson,

If your cell phone company randomly doubled your monthly payment, would you stay with them?

No, nor would I.

Paul

Nany whatever textures I have up in the market place that are full perm If there are educational, and non profits you may use the full perm textures wherever you wish as long as they are not resold on the other grid. IE for personal builds and displays.

 

Also Nany you had so much faith in LL a few weeks ago, Might I ask where that faith is now?

I guess that this is the beginning of that whole new business model she was talking about during the teen threads.  I would gloat, but this is a far too troubling and rather confusing development.  Aside from some short term savings,  what is LL going for here?  This will effectively drive the non-profits out and as so many have already said, severely limit the educational opportunities that LL cited as one of their reasons for bringing in the teens.

???

I'm glad I pulled out my monies awhile back.  This is not a good indication of LL's health.

The only glimmer of a smile that I can get from this is that LL just hauled back and kicked the last of their ardent supporters square in the nuts.  I'm not really enjoying the misfortune of others, it's more a rueful smile of sympathy and commiseration.  Feel free to drop by my park bench in whatever welcome area I am hanging about in this week and we can drink malt liquor and talk about how wonderful our SL dreams were.  Maybe if we are lucky some newbie will appear all eager to "make something" here in SL and we can point and laugh.

If you have any real content in SL... for goodness sake, back it up now.  Either make sure you have the "originals" on your RL hard-drive or export your stuff to another grid or two immediately.  I've seen this pattern before.

It's not a good sign.

".....and I'm sure there's more that I have forgotten. It all seems to be making sense to me now. SL is Philip's baby, and our pleas and cries for help must truly be breaking his heart. But, face it kids...I think LL is in the midst of an aquisition. Then again, what do I know?"

My own gut feeling is that they've been hit by the american recession too and are in process or downsizing and restructuring.

Amazes me when I hear complaints  from people of non-profit organisations about their tight fixed budgets and their lives being turned upside-down, as if Phil and his team of Lindens didn't have a budget and hard decisions to make themselves to keep SL going. It's as if these people take SL as their birth right and handed to them by God, all for free and SL shouldn't have budgetary  and restructuring hard decisions to make.

The milk and honey stream is not flowing as aboundantly to all and is being diverted in places to keep all of us somewhat happy in hard times.  Nothing is forever on planet earth and the universe, least of all a stable economy and lifestyle, everything is in constant change and the fact that Linden Lab gives us months of warning about their pricing changes is proof to me they do care about SL and the people that make it.

If you have any real content in SL... for goodness sake, back it up now.  Either make sure you have the "originals" on your RL hard-drive or export your stuff to another grid or two immediately.  I've seen this pattern before.

It's not a good sign.

Me too I've seen this pattern several times and I have all my stuff on 3 tb drives

Is anyone really surprised?  LL has been chock-full of brilliant ideas, what's one more gonna hurt?  LOL  Yep, just more of the same....greed...pathetic and inexcusable greed.  I can't believe they really have their heads so far up their wazoos that they can't see that the mass exodus is already happening.  But, then again, if they were truly paying attention, they'd realize what their brilliant decisons are doing to their product....shutting it down, basically.  See y'all in InWorldz!  (IW has grown to #2 in just 6 months, started up last year, and with LL's continued idiocy, IW has seen growth levels that boggle the mind, while SL is slowly declining...anyone wondering why?  No, me either.  LOL)

Linden Lab does not lose money on their donation if they write it off their taxes.  That's kindof the point of offering the discount to qualified nonprofits.  The discounts are tax deductible.

 

Something besides money has made Linden Lab decide they don't want universities, libraries, museums and nonprofits in Second Life.

That's not correct.  Sure, they can report less income because of the discount given to non-profits, but that just means that they aren't paying taxes on the money they did not make.  This is not as profitable as making the extra money in the first place.

I am unaware of any tax credit for letting non-profits play make-believe at a 50% discount.

"As if Phil and his team of Lindens didn't have a budget and hard decisions to make themselves to keep SL going"

By giving discounts to a cartel of landwoners? While charging edu and non-profit for such actions?

http://shoppingcartdisco.com/gossip/welcome-to-the-land-cartels/

"Nothing  is forever on planet earth and the universe, least of all a stable  economy and lifestyle, everything is in constant change."

True. that´s why i am eager to backup my inventory, before something changes constantly.

"...proof to me they do care about SL and the people that make it..."

I am absolutely convinced that they care more about the sheep...err...customers than about their own skin. They are true altruists, as everyone knows.

In my experience the majority of people that actually thrive in a non-profit environment long-term are those who  have an "anything is possible" attitude. How often that transforms in to self-delusion, I have no idea but I will say that some of the most grounded people I know have made a career in non-profit .. and obviously not for the dough.

I think you are probably right in that last bit, but that takes practice and practice takes time ... this break neck speed of advancing technology just caught my attention in the last twenty years, and I don't have centuries of traditions and habits to escape ... it's still hard for me. I imagine it is much more difficult to universities. At this point, I have no frustrations or opinions written in stone, only curiosity and ideas of how it seems to be.

I do suspect that the 3D of SL has not turned out to be the boon that was expected, but I do not *know* how much of my impressions are correct or leaning toward correct, and that is why I asked a question or two. I plan on watching this thread for a while, in hopes that some of the affected organizations might shed light on the significant benefits they've realized through the SL platform.

I can imagine certain types of educational programs and non-profits and other types of services that might genuinely and massively benefit from a 3D environment ... but most of my imaginings require the ability to modify and program that environment on a much more precise scale. The rest of what I am familiar with, I believe, would gain far more benefit through the website/video-conference/webinar/e-course/forum community type combinations that are quite mature and robust now.

You can only provide so much service at cost or less. If the lab is not making money, it is better to have some sims go dark and allocate resources to other opportunities. Especially one where profits can be obtained.

Ahh!

I breath of fresh air and a resonable and logical thought process. How did you get in here? LoL

InWorldz? You mean that place where you can't even stay logged in for 15 minutes without crashing? Good luck!

If you thknk for one minuite that there is another virtual world that can stack up to SL, you must just stand around like a cigar store indian when you visit. None, and I mean none of the other places can hold a candle to SL. Why do you think they are cheaper? Because they know the business better or have a better mouse trap? Why do you think cubic zirconia is cheaper than the real thing?

Like I said! Good luck!

BTW, anyone who recommends that your entity leave SL and go to another world, be sure your name ain't on the paper.  Your name will be mud after the first prolonged crash.

InWorldz? You mean that place where you can't even stay logged in for 15 minutes without crashing? Good luck!

If you thknk for one minuite that there is another virtual world that can stack up to SL, you must just stand around like a cigar store indian when you visit. None, and I mean none of the other places can hold a candle to SL. Why do you think they are cheaper? Because they know the business better or have a better mouse trap? Why do you think cubic zirconia is cheaper than the real thing?

Like I said! Good luck!

BTW, anyone who recommends that your entity leave SL and go to another world, be sure your name ain't on the paper.  Your name will be mud after the first prolonged crash.

You are correct, mostly.  InWorldz is a bit buggy and I do crash a bit when I go there, but I do go there, and often.  It's a nice place.  I don't stand around "like a cigar store indian" (your choice of words, not mine) either.  Yes, it's buggy.  Yes, it's crashy.  And yes, loads of people are showing up each day.  The "other places" aren't as big or as stable as SL.... yet.  For someone who has no tolerance for "beta" such as yourself, SL is still the "only" option.  Personally, I find the lack of such folks to be a big plus for InWorldz and the other places.

The "other places" are getting better each and every day.  As they improve, more and more people are going to them, taking thier money along with them (at least some of it).  A lot of folks aren't "leaving" SL and going to the "other places" completely.  It isn't an either/or proposition.  A lot of folks do like I do.  I head to my "favorite" world and then if it is too buggy that day or if I want a change of pace, then I pop over somewhere else.  As time goes on, I find myself logging into SL less and less each week.  These days, I mainly just drop by to chat and hang out a bit.

You are correct, the "other places" aren't as stable or fully formed as SL.  But they are getting better and bigger as time passes.

Is SL?

Very nice response. I would add that a virtual world is like the real world. It is what we make of it, in the context of what is possible. SL can no longer be everything to everyone regardless of the cost involved. Strangely, just like the real world! I will admit, I have not read all the posts, but no where did I see anything with even a hint of imagination for adpating to the new pricing envirnoment. I am not surprised. Its typical of not for profit and educational mind sets. Its the give me my hand out or I am sunk mentallity! Did any of these entities even look to see the prices of mainland lots and think at these prices why would they not migrate to mainland as an alternative. Not that I can see. Did any one step forward with an idea for a source of revenue to offset the cost increase? Nope! First thing is to dig in the heals and start the birch and moan. Threaten to take the ball and go home. I challenge all of you! You're all really that shallow? What you offer in this world has no enterprise value? Nothing at all? No idea how to do more with less? Really!?!?

1: Lower prices to increase land sales.

2: allow prims up to 100m to be made by premiums to drive up premium accounts.

3: create 512mx512m standalone islands for racing.  This is very easy to do and will sell like hotcakes.

4:  restore ownership of things in SL - just like land bought in Montana  can't be taken out of the state, neither can land (or anything else) be  taken out of SL.

5: initiate a "Welcome Home" program where people  who abandoned islands can restart them again with no fee and no cost -  just pick up the tier at the new lower rate once more and all is good.

6:  create a G continent for the teens to be restricted to.  Adults may  enter it so educational ventures can work, but the teens may not enter  the main grid.  The bill-paying adults then are less worried about  staying.

These are all great ideas. Brilliant, popular, and free for LL to pick up and use. If only it were so simple!

Thank you to Gentle Heron and the other non-profit people for taking time to post a response. I hope things work out for the best for all of you.

Patience, little one.   Yes, I crashed every 5 minutes (I timed it) for the first 1/2 hour.  Then, not so often, but occasionally in that first day, but I decided to keep an open mind.  I was aware that they are still in beta, so I decided to persevere, and happily so.  I can safely say that I no longer crash at all and I've only been in for about 2 weeks.  I've rented a nice lot with a pretty house, am planting trees, grass and flowers, just bought into a lot for a store in a mall filled with names we'd all recognize from SL, have bought items from very familiar designers and artisans, know of others who are cautiously watching and waiting, but are registered users at least.  Once I am able, I will be spending the same money I pay in rent in SL for a 1/2 homestead on my own full private isle sim in IW for a gazillion prims.

IW went from under 100 sims sold last April to hundreds sold to date (sorry, the exact numbers escape me right now), most within the last 2 months.  There was a write-up on a site that is all about virtual worlds...they reported that while IW was growing by leaps and bounds (and gave the actual numbers), SL was slowly declining (again, gave numbers).  They said IW quickly became #2, so sounds like I'm not the only one who's on this bandwagon....but, sounds like you might be one of the ones left behind when the wagon rolls out of beta. 

I've seen land holders in SL lose tens of thousands of real dollars, lose their RL home because of it, I've seen creators/merchants lose business to the point they can no longer support their rents or sims and shut down, I've seen decisions made by LL that only manage to make things even worse for its residents, who they claim they are here for and by.  Like I said, if you have the patience and understanding, you can to be a part of something truly great.  I plan on being there when....not if...it happens.

And, as Cabbage intimates below, the lack of the cynics, the naysayers, the ill-minded, is truly refreshing.  A breath of fresh air.  It's more about community and friendliness, support, realizing we're all there just to enjoy letting our imaginations flow.  No backstabbing, character-slashing, petty competitiveness that involves belittling others to make oneself feel bigger, having to create new AV's to escape a virtual life gone wrong.  Not yet, anyway...and I plan on enjoying the fresh air as long as it lasts.  I'm very happy to have found IW and will stay with them even while they're still working out their bugs.  I don't go into it looking for perfection, I go into it looking for freedom....freedom of imagination and freedom from negativity.

If you choose to give it a shot, I suggest you leave your expectations at the door....I know I had to learn that, myself, and glad I did. 

And, as I see SL heading, it's not a pretty thing.....think crash and burn, flames and twisted metal.....it's a shame, really, because it was a wonderful place...for a while.

Oh...and I will never wear a cubic zirconia...but, I have no problem working and sweating through the inconveniences of mining for that perfect diamond.