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Maturity Changes in the Marketplace

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Brooke Linden

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Hi all,

As  many of you know, the teen grid was shut down on Friday. This week, we  will be rolling out some changes in Marketplace to ensure Residents  under 18 will not be exposed to adult content. Here is a quick summary  of what changes will be occurring.

Phase 1: 1/27 Release
On  Thursday, the Marketplace will move to the General, Moderate, and Adult  content levels already in use in the Viewer. Just prior to this release  (starting on Wednesday), we will be running a process that will add a  content level to existing items. Once the release has been completed,  you will be able to review the ratings set on your Marketplace listings  by viewing your inventory: there will be a new column “Maturity” showing  what level the item falls into. Search will now support viewing general  or moderate/adult content. Please view the updated listing guidelines (link points to the current guidelines) on Thursday for more details.

Note  that, in addition to automated process to migrate listings, it will  continue to be possible to flag listings. Please take some time after  the new guidelines are posted to review your listings and make sure they  comply. People will be able to start flagging listings based upon the  new guidelines on Thursday (though I do not expect that we will see much of this right away), so the sooner you can do this, the better!

Phase 2: by 2/28/2011
Before  the end of February, Marketplace will be updated to allow setting  maturity level preferences at a more granular level than is currently  supported, such as allowing Residents to view moderate content without  adult content included.

Why was this done in 2 steps? Timing, pure and simple. We  wanted to ensure we had the proper controls in place as soon as  possible for the teens entering the main grid. Phase 2 will provide  further refinement.

A quick update on Maturity is on the agenda for the Marketplace Office Hours on 1/26.

Regards,
Brooke

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Not a thing, there's NOTHING.

Okay, one house of mine, and ALL my eyes and eye fatpacks, and some lipstick tattoos are forced adult no matter if I strip the listing bare, reset, pull up, reset again my magic boxes, force update, resync, log back in and fking out, nothing. Are eyes pornographic? Are you supposed to bend over and shove eyeballs up your , is that why? I mean wtf??

*frets all over Darrius* I'm exhausted now. I've had my rage and hysteria. I'm going to go run full speed face-first into a brick wall now till everything becomes quiet.

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Clever Ghost wrote:

ow if this has been brought up yet, but I was wondering what's going to happen to "related items"? Will related mature / adult items be allowed in general listings? Or will they be blocked from sight? Will a related mature / adult item in a general listing make the general listing mature / adult as well?

It seems that the product picture of a mature item is visible on a PG listing. With the maturity rating unchecked (so PG SLM) I was still able to click on the mature related listing and view it without any warning (maybe because it is my own listings). When I logged out and tried to click on the related item I did get a warning that the related item was mature and was unable to view it.

Funny thing is that both listings are in fact PG (2 versions of a building) where 1 ended up as mature and the other as PG, same keywords etc.. I mean how f up is that when normal buildings are being categorized as mature not knowing what word is causing it.

____________

It is also not clear to me if the word filtering software is just checking the keywords/title/features or also the entire description. Could not find anything about that in the listing guidelines.

I plead to Brook to disable the filtering software and just let us take care of our listings and place them under the proper rating. Anyone can flag listings if they think the listing belongs in an other rating section. It is obvious that the software does not work. Last example in this topic was the word 'rapa' which the software probably reads as 'rape'. I am not confident that tweaking the filters will help much. The software will remain to be a pain in out behinds. If you insist on keep using the software then the least that can be done is to code in to the software that it highlights the normal words that are considered mature by the software.

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black lists are extremely dumb.

so no surprise ll wants to use one now.

 

example: sculpted birdhouse with tits is adult

example 2: poseball to bang little girls into their tight behind is general

 

i´d understand if you wanted to use such a list to rate items of offline merchants. but planning it as a staying list that will screw with us forever in the future shows you  have learned nothing in the past 8 years.

 

oh btw. welcome to sl mr humble, nice first action. not

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B00tsy.Compton wrote:


It is also not clear to me if the word filtering software is just checking the keywords/title/features or also the entire description. Could not find anything about that in the listing guidelines.

It seems to be description as well. I had one item that was set to adult by the filter software because I pointed out in my description that the item does not have any xxx animations (after having received a bad review because a customer obviously expected xxx animations even though it had been clear from the original description that it did not, but I had still added it afterwards). This was an item that I hadn't fixed after the migration from Xstreet, so it was an item with no keywords, features or related items at all and the only instance of xxx was in the listing's description.

I couldn't set the item back to general before I had deleted the "does NOT come with xxx animations" from the description.

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Maybe LL is going to forbid Gor roleplay...

The keywords are not visible for the normal costumer I know its easy if you want to see them, but they are not visible normally so the merchant can reach gorean players who are looking for G items for their roleplay

I can't find the pjira Brook talk about items rated wrong someone have the link? thanks

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Hi Brooke - Thanks for the feedback and info, any communicatiuon is better than none. I'm a bit sad that you guys keep choosing what threads to hide away in that merchants forum thingy, as there are at least 3 others which are connected to this story that are now effectively dead. Dakota told us a few weeks ago that threads would no longer be moved into that dungeon - so what changed? At least you told her to get this thread out of the bucket PDQ.

Thankyou.

"Going Forward" a couple of things  for you to think about while your in the shower.

What I really wanted to ask is for the ability to sort our inventory by Maturity category. Nothing that involves rocket science just a simple bit of coding that rearranges our items by maturity. That would help us immensely to scan and sort our listings, cause then they could be bunched and easily identified.

Oh and  what about a persistant Maturity preference? When I  go in world I choose once and only once that I want to see the whole lot, nawty bits and goody bits altogether. I don't need to reset my preference everytime I log in like I do with your marketplace. It's a real pain in the nawty bit having to keep convincing your server I really am an adult by clicking your tiny button :-)

Hope your having a better weekend than the rest of us.

^L^

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No email, and always get an email.  Not sure that it matters, though...that email should have been sent much earlier, so that people could adjust their finances and prepare.  Couple days doesn't get it.  Others are impressed with communication.  I'm not, and not going to suck up in that manner.

Have joked around about the LL Bombs always being dropped on Thursdays.  Some times it's not all that funny.

It's the last weekend of the month.  SL Tier fees are due on the first, and for some RL tier fees due on the first, as well.  Some rely on that last weekend rather heavily. Not affected personally on that with this round, but understand that with many other rounds in the past.

Looking at some of the keywords tossed out.  Major marketing tools.  Since people are scrambling to get in gear on short notice...doubt that the concerns about the loss on that level is kicking in just yet.

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Kyrah Abattoir wrote:

 

The rating listing doesn't work properly stop tieing it to keywords LL are you stupid or something?

this is an example of one of my products which is force flagged as mature.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/KDC-Classic-Housekeeping-uniform-black/1632631

 

THAT is my concern on all those products that we have listed with blog links, and links from other sources.  When I clicked that, got the warning - adjusted - and nothing - no product - sent to a main page.

This will be a dilemma for those who do major promotions, and rely on that product link going directly to product.

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Mickey Vandeverre wrote:

 

Kyrah Abattoir wrote:

 

The rating listing doesn't work properly stop tieing it to keywords LL are you stupid or something?

this is an example of one of my products which is force flagged as mature.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/KDC-Classic-Housekeeping-uniform-black/1632631

 

THAT is my concern on all those products that we have listed with blog links, and links from other sources.  When I clicked that, got the warning - adjusted - and nothing - no product - sent to a main page.

This will be a dilemma for those who do major promotions, and rely on that product link going directly to product.

Yes, it definitely should continue through to the item you wanted to view, once you click the +18 box. Sloppy coding.

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Lasher Oh wrote:

What I really wanted to ask is for the ability to sort our inventory by Maturity category. Nothing that involves rocket science just a simple bit of coding that rearranges our items by maturity. That would help us immensely to scan and sort our listings, cause then they could be bunched and easily identified.

Add Maturity Rating Filter to Inventory > Manage Inventory page in Marketplace

Please read, comment if desired, and vote to help indicate our desire for this feature.

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As my kids were growing up, from time to time they began gaining skills that they had previously not had. First drawings were crude, messy and often illegible, yet I praised them for their efforts and gave them the confidence to continue drawing. Today I have children willing and able to undertake new challenges and possessing skills that they might not have gained had I slammed them for their inability to paint like a Master Artist from day one.

The new Marketplace Team is just that .. new. The Lead is barely 2 months old in this company and does not have the benefit of the months and years of experience in the trenches that we have. And yet you still believe in withholding any praise when they have shown they are wholly different than their predecessors and are willing to talk, listen and adjust to provide a better result?

Wow .. and you call me negative.

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After reading all the comments on this blog, it got me to thinking about what the issues are with Second Life.

You remember that great set of lines in "City Slickers", where Jack Palance says the following to Billy Crystal:

Curly:         Do you know what the secret of life is?
This.
Mitch: Your finger?
Curly: One thing. Just one thing. You stick to that and the rest         don't mean s***.
Mitch: But, what is the "one thing?"

Curly:         That's what you have to find out

 

For some reason, Second Life can't seem to find it's one thing.  Until that day occurs, until the day they decide what they really want to be and then put there heart and soul into it, then and only then, will this game mature.  For now, trying to be everything to everyone will only result in becoming a failure in all of it.  Find your one thing Second Life, find it and then go after it.  If its being a world for adults to come and enjoy creativity, expressions, etc., then do that, and do it with everything you got.  But if its trying to be a game for teens, then do that, and do it with everything you got.  And then, all this crazziness will finally go away, and for once you will be on the road to true success.

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Darien Caldwell wrote:

Mickey Vandeverre wrote:

Kyrah Abattoir wrote:

 

The rating listing doesn't work properly stop tieing it to keywords LL are you stupid or something?

this is an example of one of my products which is force flagged as mature.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/KDC-Classic-Housekeeping-uniform-black/1632631

 

THAT is my concern on all those products that we have listed with blog links, and links from other sources.  When I clicked that, got the warning - adjusted - and nothing - no product - sent to a main page.

This will be a dilemma for those who do major promotions, and rely on that product link going directly to product.

Yes, it definitely should continue through to the item you wanted to view, once you click the +18 box. Sloppy coding.

Agreed. Has anyone created a JIRA for it yet?

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Brooke,

Forget the matter that your team deployed these changes using poor ineffective communication strategy to those of YOUR customers (PS that would be the Merchants of SLM) that rely upon SLM as a major or even critical revenue stream to keep their SL Business running inworld.  Also put aside the fact that your team's deployment strategy seems to have been thought out over a coffee break since its clear there was no thought put toward: 1) when would be the best date and day of week to execute this change, 2) what will be the backout plan if things go bad or the change has unexpected bad results, 3) what staff will be around in the days after the change to provide the critical support or fix bugs or backout.  The evidence is clear on a poor failed  deployment strategy - regardless of the change.  This is BAU for LL.

But lets focus on the actual stategy LL is trying to execute on SLM and the solution your team has come up with.

You are using SLM Listing Keywords a primary method of identifying what might be moderate, mature, adult content that TEENS shouldn't see?  May I ask who in LL came up with this horrendously stupid and inffective idea?

Keywords are not listing descriptives or features.  Are you aware of that?  Most in the industry know that keywords are not descriptives of the item.  I can understand how some might think they are - but they are not.  KEYWORDS are search relevance keys used to help a merchant/advertiser get his/her product in front of customers that are looking for something of which the product could be relevant to their search.  A strong evidence that keywords are not item descriptives is the fact that keywords are not even displayed in SLM to the customer.

Secondly, maybe your team has the notion that "we are not de-listing any SLM listings - we are only categorizing them on SLM".  The problem is that as soon as an SLM Item has been deemed ADULT or MATURE or basically non-G items, the item has lost a massive potential marketshare since LL SLM's search and operations will make default customer experiences be G-Rated unless explicitly re-configured by the customer to change the setting (if they are even allowed to).  So basically LL has black-balled a large portion of Merchant items - many of them unfairly - into obscurity.  THIS MEANS LOST SALES...  this could also mean for LL - LOST TIERS as some merchants will not be able to afford their stores / sims.

So, by your team coming up with this - quite frankly - hair-brained concept of categorizing and black-balling SLM listings using an ineffective method of creating a Blacklist of bad keywords, not only have you impacted the sales of countless merchants (many of them that wont even know since they read the forum and didnt get the emails you said you sent), but, LL has now always turned many of its SL Resident Shoppers into SecondClass SecondLife residents that LL is discriminating against.

SL is made up of dozens of weird, wild, and wonderful culture, beliefs, practices, role plays, communities.  Most of us would not agree with all of them, but living in SecondLife - one must be tolerant of them even when they dont agree with us.  LL more than anyone must not only tolerate them but openly accept them all equally as uhmmmm THEY ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS & PAY YOUR BILLS LL !

Basically LL is executing a form of Virtual Culture Racism since LL has labeled SL cultures like Gor to be non-acceptable and to be suppressed/hidden from normal SLM opertions.  i.e. any resident shopper from the Gorean lifestyle that wishes to shop in SLM and look for items that could have some Gorean relevance will likely not find too much.  Why?  Because Merchants that sell their items are being punished to use search index terms like GOR and GOREAN in their listings... even listings that are 100% G-Rated items.  Merchants are already responding to LL's discriminating actions by going through all their listings and removing any keyword indexed words relating to Gor Gorean etc. in order to make sure their listings can stay a G-Rated listing.

Also, even those merchants that have items in SLM which would be deems potentially non-G-Rated, they will do whatever they can to clean up their keywords to avoid LL's discrimination keyword filters.

Brooke.... THIS IS A HORRIDLY BAD IDEA and it was HORRIBLY COMMUNICATED & EXECUTED.

If your team truly wants to show they are not like all the previous lame LL Commerce Administrations, admit your team was wrong and back out this strategy.

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maid,uniform,domestic,servant,hotel

 

What exactly is not pg in this?

 

I'm not sure but i think it's because i mention the word "cuffs" in the description which is retarded.

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Real problem with new ratings is the unfair search: many go to the url and explore the SLM WITHOUT logging in...In this way all they see is G-rated products and adult products that merchants are smart enough to disguise as G (I see several sex beds directly on home page without logging).

All the rest is "hidden" behind logging and mature rating enabling.

To bring back all to fair a fair search situation SLM should force all to log in in order to make any search, and allow us to set rating preference once and forever in our profile.

In this situation I'm goiing to remove all payed featuring of my "now mature products" on homepage: no sense because nobody will see them! Pity for LL, they'll loose money too.

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"Bondage" is also not allowed, but i guess LL's employees didn't personally put their office's wallpaper in place or they would know how retarded it is to ban this word.

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"Rapa" is another name for the plant species called "rape". Perhaps, in some language, it also refers to the act with the same name.

By the way, currently you can list a plant in General as rapeseed but not as rape. Due to trademarks, you must not call it Canola.

Also, you cannot use the german word for tail, "schwanz", although tails and german are both common in SL.

Here's a funny one: You cannot abbreviate "nothing" as "nuttin" in a General listing.

... and I can't name something "cannibal", but I can name it "headhunter". I don't think simply naming something "cannibal" should make it adult, but I guess LL wants to play it safe.

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No, it wasn't negative.  It was Frank.  Darrius, meet Frank.

Praise will show in the numbers.  Surely they have some numbers to watch.  They are not children.  They are in charge of large numbers and future numbers.

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Brooke,

What I am missing in this process of implementing this new change that effects so many merchants, is the communication with us about it, before the plan is rolled out. You have announced it in the office hours, but there was not much room to stand still at the subject or have a discussion about it. Not that it would have made much difference, because after all your plans were there already the only thing that was left for you to do was force them on us. And that happened two days later.

I don't want to blame you personal for this, it's the  system you are working in, it's the Linden Labs mentality, but it causes many frustrations for merchants, over and over again. We feel like you don't care for our interest, we feel threaded like lab rats on whom you can experiment whatever you like.  And we have been asking so many times: talk to us, get us involved in your plans, let us help you.  But is looks like we are shouting to windmills.

But I still have hope, Brooke, that you are willing to work with us. And that is why I ask, for the next big change 'delivery from inventories in stead of magic boxes', can we start talking about this soon? Tell us what you have in mind, on how this shall be done. Let us react and tell what possible problems we see from our point of view. There are all kind of tools you can use to get feedback from us, discussions on the forum, but also polls or surveys. But do it before your team has made up their mind on how it must be done codewise. Use our knowledge and experience to make it in the end work better for all parties.

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

 

And that is why I ask, for the next big change 'delivery from inventories in stead of magic boxes', can we start talking about this soon? Tell us what you have in mind, on how this shall be done. Let us react and tell what possible problems we see from our point of view. There are all kind of tools you can use to get feedback from us, discussions on the forum, but also polls or surveys. But do it before your team has made up their mind on how it must be done codewise. Use our knowledge and experience to make it in the end work better for all parties.

 

My hope and prayer is that this will be thoroughly beta tested before forced implementation -- unlike nearly everything else about the SLM, in which we saw Xstreet closed down when SLM was barely out of alpha (if it was at all). We don't mind change, esp one like this that promises the elimination of delivery failures -- but let's be clear: Xstreet had plenty of delivery problems, but nothing like SLM has had. Forget scrum -- the elimination of Magic Boxes is only ready when it is working perfectly.

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