Residential Communities on the Mainland

[Prokofy Neva]

10 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Thank you but don't be sorry for me. Keeping the place has been a burden for a long time, draining my energy, time and money, and it's been many years since I truly enjoyed it.

I do feel sorry for the people who liked the place though.

I can and will rebuild my own stuff bigger and better somewhere else (not in SL, the tier here is way too high - unless I can find a sponsor willing to pay a six digit amount of dollars every month) but there were some classic old works by some of the builders I admire the most hidden away in various corners of Greater Coniston and most of them are probably gone for good now.

I'm not sure if I should post this but here are the last pictures of four of them.

 

Lake Hildring

The part of Sansara Greater Coniston was located in is known as the Hidden Lake District, so it obviously needed a hidden lake somewhere. Featuring one of Hattie Panacek's amazing medieval castles on an island in the middle of it:

More pictures here.

The Village of Kintyre

A quarter sim Dickens inspired christmas village by Cuge Causten. Voted the Best architectural design/build in a virtual world in contest organized by the Virginia Society for Technology in Education (VSTE) in 2013.

More pictures.

New Atlantis

I've always loved Crazy Mole's works and especially what she made for Nautilus and although I understand why, I think it's a shame that continent never was developed according to the original concept. So I made a little Nautlius village in the sky, using those lovely but so prim heavy houses she made for the continent. I never got around to decorate it but the buildings look great even on their own

More pictures.

Chateau Le Kia

A ballet themed fairytale castle on a cloud made by Jamez Moonstone as a gift to an SL'er who was suffering from cancer. I don't know much more than that, I don't even know if the recipient ever got the gift. But Jamez once gave me a copy of the castle and of course I had to find a place for it at Coniston. This is the only picture I have.

All wonderfully creative and beautiful builds, and I hope you will be able to locate them somewhere else. The Great Canadian Grid, perhaps? 

[BJoyful]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

All wonderfully creative and beautiful builds, and I hope you will be able to locate them somewhere else. The Great Canadian Grid, perhaps? 

Kitely has an MP which is not too bad.  Idk if it’s currency can be cashed out into RL income.  It’s the nicest of the OSGrids in my opinion but it has no contiguous Mainland and the highest number of users online I ever saw there was about 100.  It was very upsetting to see so much of the SL content was available in the other grids for free with pathetic makeshift HUDs.  At first I thought the OSGrid connected worlds must be a testing grid for SL products as I had read somewhere until my partner pointed out that it was more likely copybotted items ripped off from SL and shared there and I felt so dismayed I can’t make myself go back there.  It felt like some post apocalyptic Mad Max version of SL. 😢

[Vixtee]

Hi @Trinity Heartsong and allll! My residential community - Winter Cove, is located in the Snowlands and is currently in the works! I hope that is the one @Yukiko Yeshto is referring to! It is set to open in August. It was opened, but I felt it needed to be redone so it is! It has a plaza that will be across the street with stores. The residential side has a park and oh my gosh so much lol. I'll repost again the info along with the landmark once done. Thank you!

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, BJoyful said:

Kitely has an MP which is not too bad.  Idk if it’s currency can be cashed out into RL income.  It’s the nicest of the OSGrids in my opinion but it has no contiguous Mainland and the highest number of users online I ever saw there was about 100.

It's a nice grid and a decent marketplace. I wish SL's MP was half as good. The one problem with Kitely though is that you can only have single isolated sims there and even the biggest sim, the 16x16 - same size as 256 SL regions, isn't big enough for my project.

 

2 hours ago, BJoyful said:

It was very upsetting to see so much of the SL content was available in the other grids for free with pathetic makeshift HUDs.

It's not nearly as bad as it used to be before all the major grids tightened up their anti-copybot policies. It also helped that the two worst copybot grids, Sacrarium and Great Canadian, both went down for a while. They're back now but they're not nearly as popular as they used to be.

But perhaps most of all, there is more legal content available on the hypergrid.

[BJoyful]

35 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

But perhaps most of all, there is more legal content available on the hypergrid.

That's good to know ChinRey ♥ It was a very disheartening experience when we visited there about a year ago when MP was soooo broken here.  On the bright side Doc had made a TV and  put it on the Kitely MP and he had a nice little nestegg of sales built up in about 5 or 6 years of sales, but at that time I don't think he could cashout into RL money.  I wonder if they will use Tilia?

Edited July 3, 2021 by BJoyful
afterthought

[BJoyful]

2 hours ago, Vixtee said:

I hope that is the one @Yukiko Yeshto is referring to! It is set to open in August.

I can hardly wait to see it @Vixtee !  Yukiko has great taste and wonderful tours! ❄️ 🗺️Winter is coming faster than I want!  ;D

[Vixtee]

I can't wait toooo🤗

[Boo Rojyo]

Campbell Coast has been mentioned a few times here. I'm biased, but it's a great place to live and there's genuine community which is so rare in SL.

Time doesn't stand still and Campbell Coast is developing. Somehow or other, like I'm not busy enough already, I've ended up refurbishing the old airport area. It's now the Campbell Coast Aerodrome. It's got a rural and homely feel now which I think blends in nicely with the beautiful landscaping in the area.

If you like aviation in SL it's a great place to base yourself and not be stranded in a concrete desert, to actually be part of a lively and vibrant community. You don't have to live there to give the aerodrome a try anyway. There's a rez zone, it's a GTFO hub, and there's even a 30s era terminal building. It's connected both by road and cable car to the rest of the Campbell Coast area.

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Erazor/217/150/153

 

 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 7/2/2021 at 11:33 PM, BJoyful said:

Kitely has an MP which is not too bad.  Idk if it’s currency can be cashed out into RL income.  It’s the nicest of the OSGrids in my opinion but it has no contiguous Mainland and the highest number of users online I ever saw there was about 100.  It was very upsetting to see so much of the SL content was available in the other grids for free with pathetic makeshift HUDs.  At first I thought the OSGrid connected worlds must be a testing grid for SL products as I had read somewhere until my partner pointed out that it was more likely copybotted items ripped off from SL and shared there and I felt so dismayed I can’t make myself go back there.  It felt like some post apocalyptic Mad Max version of SL. 😢

Kitely has a different grid model, with "sims on demand" which is a beloved concept by many techs but really not practical if you want contiguous Mainland. That is, maybe someone will have a "sims on demand" that spools out a road as you drive down that but I think likely that can't happen fast enough to be immersive.

Don't assume that every items for sale on Open Sims or Kitely is Copybotted; especially during InWorldz tenure, people created for other grids, had stores in them, and this is reflected in many a creator TOS, which either grants permission or not for other worlds. Yes, there is a lot of theft but yes, it is a prototyping space.

Kitely did not have groups and group land making Mainland type rentals an impossibility. Trying to have an individual owner with just a group set is not effective as having actual group owned land and various roles in the group. I didn't see this in Inworldz although may it did arrive there eventually. Most techs do not conceive that group land and group roles are vital for life in virtual worlds, so they don't include it. They care more about graphics, speed, interoperability etc. and that's fine but honestly, you need group land.

[BJoyful]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Kitely has a different grid model, with "sims on demand" which is a beloved concept by many techs but really not practical if you want contiguous Mainland. That is, maybe someone will have a "sims on demand" that spools out a road as you drive down that but I think likely that can't happen fast enough to be immersive.

Don't assume that every items for sale on Open Sims or Kitely is Copybotted; especially during InWorldz tenure, people created for other grids, had stores in them, and this is reflected in many a creator TOS, which either grants permission or not for other worlds. Yes, there is a lot of theft but yes, it is a prototyping space.

Kitely did not have groups and group land making Mainland type rentals an impossibility. Trying to have an individual owner with just a group set is not effective as having actual group owned land and various roles in the group. I didn't see this in Inworldz although may it did arrive there eventually. Most techs do not conceive that group land and group roles are vital for life in virtual worlds, so they don't include it. They care more about graphics, speed, interoperability etc. and that's fine but honestly, you need group land.

I never had the opportunity to visit inworldz before it closed and Kitely is really nice and I think their MP is a big reason why!  I like that there’s a way to travel between grids carrying a suitcase of things you may need in the next grid also!  That could make some great puzzle/hunt adventures!  My goodness how clever is that techie person who developed travel between grids!  There were many things I loved in our visits there but truly, I’m spoiled by SL 😂🥰 I love rigged clothes which fit well and lots of them!  I like LOTS of shoes 👞 👟 👠 and buying nice things!  I like to support those amazing creators who make them and I love the weekend sales and the external struggle of “Do I really need this L$50 item or do I just want to get it because it’s a great deal”  🤣 🤩

Group owned land is the most cost effective type of land ownership in SL imho 🤓

[animats]

There's the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. It's six regions run by officials elected every six months by the landowners. They've been quietly doing this for 17 years now. Visit Neufreistadt and start at the town square.

[BJoyful]

1 hour ago, animats said:

There's the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. It's six regions run by officials elected every six months by the landowners. They've been quietly doing this for 17 years now. Visit Neufreistadt and start at the town square.

I will visit this place for sure!  Wow! 😃

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, animats said:

There's the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. It's six regions run by officials elected every six months by the landowners. They've been quietly doing this for 17 years now. Visit Neufreistadt and start at the town square.

That history was not at all quiet and it is worth recalling how this group came about before the love fest here continues.

One relevant point, and you can stop reading if you want to keep on your rose-coloured glasses. This is a thread about "residential communities on the Mainland".

Neufreistandt is an island, as are the other sims in the CDS. They are not on the Mainland. Long, long ago, they had a snow sim as part of their holdings. I'm not sure if they still have that, but CDS is primarily an island compound; look on the map.

So as to relevant history:

The Lindens long ago had a system through which they gave away cash based on "dwell," a system whereby traffic to your land built up points which could be turned into Lindens and then real money, as the Lindens awarded Linden dollars each week for any one or any group that had significant traffic numbers on their land. (I used to simply plough this back into my rentals as a dividend for tenants, something I remind them of if they complain about paying 2L per week in group fees today). In a world where tier was costly, and land prices were triple what they are now, even a little US $35 payment was a big help, so people like me, who used to have a club and run architectural contests, could earn this subsidy, which was removed some years afterward.

But as with all things SL, the top-earning dwell groups were ones that had wet t-shirt contests or Beach Blanket Bingo, so to speak, or Tringo, a popular game at the time turned into a RL game. So they would get all this money, and groups that had an art gallery with a traffic of 13 would get nothing, much less some group working to save Darfur. Dwell was supposed to be a system that showcased the best of SL, edgy art concept sims or a breathrough in programming whose purpose for people like Pierre Omidyaar and Mitch Kapor, the early investors, had to reflect a Better World, with justice but not necessarily liberty for all.

So they came up with this free-sim contest to pay for sims, which they felt was a more substantive way to give the Better World a boost -- which ran briefly and only had some winners (another one was a game designer who prototyped various things and then spent the rest of his life complaining about the technical limitations of SL, so that backfired on them).

So first, Neufreistadt got US $1000 for the cost of the set-up fee of an island (back in 2004), although not tier ($195 at the time) in an ostensible "contest" that was kind of a giveaway by the Lindens to their friends because it was a small world and no one could assume that much tier. They had no competition in building "socialism in one sim" other socialists in SL, or non-socialists, didn't want to commit to that tier or didn't have it. Does it matter, 17 years, how some community got its start? Well, yeah, because you have to understand how the world worked and continues to work.

Next, the community was nearly destroyed when one of their builders had a falling out with them and went on a rampage tearing all the buildings she had made and taking them into inventory. Note to groups: always make sure builders turn the building over to a trusted person and don't retain sole ownership.

BTW this person, an aggressive socialist, used to put a picture in her avatar which was my business logo with a raven's head, only exploding in a cloud of blood, and my ARs on this monstrosity went "nowhere" I guess because it was accepted as "parody". Oh, well.

I used to have friendly relationships with some of the CDS regulars as some of them would rent store space from me, like Gorean panthers would also escape their communities sometimes. One of them who enjoyed a very long grace period not paying any rent, until my own socialism had to cut off, used to berate me as a "benevolent dictator" because I ran...a rentals company. And my tenants did not get to vote. How undemocratic! How unsocialist! She wanted to keep the group voting tools which used to enable something called "officer recall," when a majority of ordinary group members could literally vote someone of the island, regardless of whether that person had paid the set-up fee and monthly tier.

I thought this was an incredible hobble to normal business, where it's ok not to have democratic socialism and its works as organizing principles within the company, and was among those who lobbied Philip to remove those vicious tools which were used by griefers against me multiple times, forcing me out of my group for a week (that expelled officer could not return until the vote finished and was counted over a period of time by automatic programs) and costing me real money as tenants without service fled. So yeah, democracy. Great stuff. The CDS did not lobby against these destructive tools, as many actual people in business did, because they thought they were the greatest thing since cream cheese. 

Why are there elections every six months, which is awfully frequent for RL and actually SL, too? Because turnover is high and conflicts frequent as they often are in socialist collectives?  

Even so, the group has persisted because of a few strong personalities that make it work and their ability to pay tier, like all such things in SL. The Better World has not been built; what has been built is ok, and can persist, but there's no need to take them unequivocally as a model

They allowed only a certain kind of commerce in their marketplace, which was so to speak licensed and artisanal. That is, no member of the public could go up and rent a stall and follow a set of rules that applied to everyone. You had to be admitted into the guild, and the unabashedly said they favoured a guild society, something that I personally think leads to the Ren Faire or socialism with another kind of adjective besides "democratic".  It doesn't matter what I think, but it is important to reflect the history accurately, whatever the changes are and the state of play today.

No doubt a CDS member could explain that they no longer have closed markets like this today, and that's great. Visiting the CDS sims they other day, I couldn't tell. But it was a part of their history.

So yeah, quiet, but not exactly, and not exactly a model for the Metaverse either. That is, hopefully there will be a lot of models permitted or which spring up but favouring one and misrepresenting their history is a recipe for making the Metaverse authoritarian and therefore weak.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[Rabid Cheetah]

How to Hijack Yet Another Thread:  Turning the Second Life Forums Into a Constant Rage-Rant Against Socialism

by

Blab R. Mouth

If there's one thing we can all agree on is that Socialism is yucky pooey bad bad bad and that blah blah this is a clear example of Marxist-Lenninist thought brought into the digital era by a blah blah blah blahgity blah blah.  Furthermore, and more further, such attacks against land barrons destroy capitalism, peace, justice, and the American Way, and, dare I say, and indeed I do dare, to dare to say, that is to say that I dare to dare to say, a blatant terrorist attack on baseball, hot dogs, and apple pie.  Blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah, such groups cause global warming every time they pass gas blah blah blah spam spam bacon and spam, eggs and spam, toast and spam in a light spam sauce, and by the way Burger King is the Anti-Christ, spam spam spam spam, spam spam spam spam, spam!  Wonderful spam!  Blah blah blah nonsense that no one reads or cares about blah blah blah!

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Rabid Cheetah

[Rabid Cheetah]

4 hours ago, BJoyful said:

I will visit this place for sure!  Wow! 😃

I think I will too.  Especially given the rave reviews it's gotten here.  😁

[Rabid Cheetah]

On 7/2/2021 at 11:47 PM, ChinRey said:

It's a nice grid and a decent marketplace. I wish SL's MP was half as good. The one problem with Kitely though is that you can only have single isolated sims there and even the biggest sim, the 16x16 - same size as 256 SL regions, isn't big enough for my project.

 

 

Come back to SL...come back to SL...come back to SL...

[BJoyful]

2 hours ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

 

Come back to SL...come back to SL...come back to SL...

@ChinReyPlease, pretty please with chocolatier sprinkles and espresso beans 🥰

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Rabid Cheetah said:

I think I will too.  Especially given the rave reviews it's gotten here.  😁

If it's ok to tout socialism, it's ok to criticize it in the "open discussion" forums we have. Oh, except it's not.

[Prokofy Neva]

5 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

@ChinReyPlease, pretty please with chocolatier sprinkles and espresso beans 🥰

I'm glad ChinRey has found a happier place, even with its drawbacks, and it is terrible to see what has happened to her previously nicely-maintained land in SL. Maybe the people who knock SL all the time should join her there. I have visited Kitely and there are some good things about the sims there but I don't like sims on demand, I like contiguity. It's expensive and hard to maintain. I don't expect LL will maintain it forever. They will sell the hookup to a grid but not maintain the grid or at least the sims on it. Someone who has 100 giant 256 sims or whatever will make something sort of contiguous like the Mainland. It won't be the same as you will not feel the presence of multiple people excercizing their freedom of speech but generally getting along, you will only feel the presence of one big mind with will, sometimes brutal, or deep pockets.

@ChinRey did you try the Canadian grid where it seems you can string together huge sims as far as the eye can see for a song.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[BJoyful]

Just now, Prokofy Neva said:

If it's ok to tout socialism, it's ok to criticize it in the "open discussion" forums we have. Oh, except it's not.

It’s okay, in its own thread I think, Prokofy.  You are so clever… use your power for spreading the beautiful things you have to share.  It’s too hard to read long sentences for me today 💕

[Prokofy Neva]

5 hours ago, BJoyful said:

It’s okay, in its own thread I think, Prokofy.  You are so clever… use your power for spreading the beautiful things you have to share.  It’s too hard to read long sentences for me today 💕

Sorry, but I'm not aware of any word count limit on the forums. And I think people under the guise of "positivity" who can roll under the wire so often can tout *islands* in a *Mainland* thread, and claim the history is *quiet*  -- when it was not -- and not mention that its ideology is *socialist* should not be allowed to get away with it, and that I should be forced into a separate thread or off the forums. That is, they do get away with it again and again, especially by ARing their critics inworld and out. I think that's not how you can run a world, suppressing actual true information and legitimate opinion. No one is required to read my posts, they can skim through them, and those that bother will conclude that this community is misrepresented, and is not a model for the entire Metaverse. It's just one sectarian community. 

I'm never going to adopt the posture of a Pollyanna. It's not required by the TOS or the norm in RL. 

It's like people touting Roblox and never admitting the platform gouges 30%+

Edited August 11, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[BJoyful]

4 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I'm glad ChinRey has found a happier place, even with its drawbacks, and it is terrible to see what has happened to her previously nicely-maintained land in SL. Maybe the people who knock SL all the time should join her there. I have visited Kitely and there are some good things about the sims there but I don't like sims on demand, I like contiguity. It's expensive and hard to maintain. I don't expect LL will maintain it forever. They will sell the hookup to a grid but not maintain the grid or at least the sims on it. Someone who has 100 giant 256 sims or whatever will make something sort of contiguous like the Mainland. It won't be the same as you will not feel the presence of multiple people excercizing their freedom of speech but generally getting along, you will only feel the presence of one big mind with will, sometimes brutal, or deep pockets.

@ChinRey did you try the Canadian grid where it seems you can string together huge sims as far as the eye can see for a song.

It will all work out for the best, Prokofy.  SL isn’t going away and isn’t shutting down anything they don’t have to to make SL even better.

[BJoyful]

Just now, Prokofy Neva said:

Sorry, but I'm not aware of any word count limit on the forums. And I think people under the guise of "positivity" who can roll under the wire so often can tout *islands* in a *Mainland* thread, and claim the history is *quiet*  -- when it was not -- and not mention that its ideology is *socialist* should not be allowed to get away with it. That is, they do get away with it again and again, especially by ARing their critics inworld and out. I think that's not how you can run a world, suppressing actual true information and legitimate opinion. No one is required to read my posts, they can skim through them, and those that bother will conclude that this community is represented, and is not a model for the entire Metaverse. It's just one sectarian community. 

I'm never going to adopt the posture of a Pollyanna. It's not required by the TOS or the norm in RL. 

The word limit only applies to me today, and I will read it when I get down to pc and have my text to speech thing on my pc.  You can be Prokofy forever… my mornings would never have as many smiles if you turned into Polllyanna, but maybe Prokofyanna.  🥰

[Prokofy Neva]

5 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

The word limit only applies to me today, and I will read it when I get down to pc and have my text to speech thing on my pc.  You can be Prokofy forever… my mornings would never have as many smiles if you turned into Polllyanna, but maybe Prokofyanna.  🥰

Well, sorry to disappoint, that will not happen any time soon unless I get the treatment of Randle in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest," in which case Chief is welcome to come with the pillow.

My favourite character in Pollyanna is the maid, Nancy, an oppressed and exploited figure for sure. She has the first rebellious line in this very long Victorian-era novel which is really the more operative theme of the book. It's far more authentic than the saccharine self-deceptions of Pollyana and more true to real life, even though Pollyana, is of course, served up to us as a virtuous model, although after a century, she began to serve as someone living in deep self-deception, unwilling to recognize the negative relaties of RL.

Nancy says the truth about the mean spinster Aunt Polly Harrington so you have some sort of tabula resa to perceive how she undergoes a change of heart. If you didn't have her commentary throughout the book, and there isn't a lot of it, you couldn't put Pollyanna's opiumated approached to RL into perspective.

“I—just—wish—I could—dig—out the corners—of—her—soul!” she muttered jerkily, punctuating her words with murderous jabs of her pointed cleaning-stick. “There's plenty of 'em needs cleanin' all right, all right! The idea of stickin' that blessed child 'way off up here in this hot little room—with no fire in the winter, too, and all this big house ter pick and choose from! Unnecessary children, indeed! Humph!” snapped Nancy, wringing her rag so hard her fingers ached from the strain; “I guess it ain't CHILDREN what is MOST unnecessary just now, just now!”

[Rabid Cheetah]

2 hours ago, BJoyful said:

It’s okay, in its own thread

 

Exactly.  There's a big difference between occasionally saying "I don't like socialism" and posting a rambling off-topic personal Capitalist Manefesto over and over and over in EVERY.  DAMNED.  THREAD.