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[leliel Mirihi]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

You are mistaken, Leliel. It wasn't implicit at all. I have been well aware of the WASD+mouse method - I've even used it. So, as I said, making a point by changing what somebody wrote into something that they neither wrote nor implied, must mean that you don't a point to make at all.

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I'm sorry, but that's the way I understood you and still do, thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt and not just accusing me from the start. And I'm pretty shure you already knew about mouse look, at the very least because you were replying to some one that had just brought it up.

What is your point exactly? I read it as only the curser keys are the normal way, you claim that's not your point but have yet to provide a more thorough explanation. So are you just going to continue to tell me I have no point or are you going to tell me what your point is?

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Btw, SL isn't a game, so 'seeing how long I live in a game' doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with SL and this discussion.

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BTW, SL isn't a game, so telling people they need a fast GPU with up to date drivers doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with it. The discussion is about moving around in 3d environments, I'd say 3d games are a valid comparison. If you don't like the "how long I live" part then I'll just bring up games with 3d puzzles like Portal and Amnesia.

[Phil Deakins Member]

My point is that you should not quote somebody, add something to the quote that they neither wrote, meant, nor implied, and then try to make a point based on that.

Whether or not you still wrongly think that only the cursor keys can be used to move around in my opinion, is irrelevant. You are wrong about it. I just told you that I've used the WASD+mouse (long before this thread, incidentally), so why you want to hold on to a wrong belief is puzzling, to say the least.

However, I do say, and have said, that the normal way that people move around in SL is by using the cursor keys.

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leliel Mirihi wrote:

BTW, SL isn't a game, so telling people they need a fast GPU with up to date drivers doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with it. The discussion is about moving around in 3d environments, I'd say 3d games are a valid comparison. If you don't like the "how long I live" part then I'll just bring up games with 3d puzzles like Portal and Amnesia.

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I said that. You even quoted it.

The discussion is not about moving around in 3D environments, and 3D games are not a valid comparison. It is specifically about navigating reasonably well inside a very small 3D space, such as a 12'x12' furnished living room. Perhaps you haven't read the thread and you jumped to the wrong conclusion by only reading the last bits. The latest posts took it off at a tangent by discussing 3D games, and which method of movement is best for them, but this discussion has nothing to do with any of that, other than they are both 3D environments.

There's no need to bring up 3D puzzles. They also have nothing to do with this discussion, which, as I said, is about navigating in a very small fully furnished room. Whether it can be done or not doesn't even come into it. Of course it can be done - by blundering into and over things - but it's not suitable for homes in SL. Space is needed.

[Nova Convair Honored Resident]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Curser keys (or the WASD keys) are the standard method of moving in SL.

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No! lol
From day 1 in SL (years ago) I used a combination of Mouse+Keyboard to move, that is the standard in other games too. I'm not talking of mouselook, thats another option I use in special cases only.
I really wondered seeing so many with that clumsy movement you get when playing keyboard only. Seems that this feature is obviously not known that well.
I always know when i teleport to a place with an invisible prim at the landing point (spam and spy tool) because i fail to connect the mouse steering to the avatar then.

It is no problem to move in a furnished 4x4 room with a mouse/keyboard combo -  IF sculpties are not bigger than they look (need phantom setting then) AND you have a decent framerate AND the sim is running well.
But it's absolutely no fun so why bother with that?

A moving camera is never the same than the way you see in RL so the environments must not be the same than RL. Game designers know that and you can see that in all games. In SL everyone is a designer.
Well - your imagination so do it - but SL does not allow to make a RL environment that is fun so I will always make SL environments and no RL environments in SL.

[Phil Deakins Member]

You said it yourself, Nova:- "I really wondered seeing so many with that clumsy movement you get when playing keyboard only. Seems that this feature is obviously not known that well." That makes the cursor keys the normal way that people move in SL

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Nova Convair wrote:

It is no problem to move in a furnished 4x4 room with a mouse/keyboard combo -  IF sculpties are not bigger than they look (need phantom setting then) AND you have a decent framerate AND the sim is running well.
But it's absolutely no fun so why bother with that?

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Moving isn't a problem. I never said it was. It's seeing and navigating in it that the problem, which, as you said, "is no fun, so why bother with that?"

[leliel Mirihi]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

My point is that you should not quote somebody, add something to the quote that they neither wrote, meant, nor implied, and then try to make a point based on that.

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That's not the point I was talking about and you know it. Thanks for dodging the question. I'll back out now since there's obviously no point in discussing with you.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Whether or not you still wrongly think that only the cursor keys can be used to move around in my opinion, is irrelevant. You are wrong about it. I just told you that I've used the WASD+mouse (long before this thread, incidentally), so why you want to hold on to a wrong belief is puzzling, to say the least.

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WTF are you even talking about then? How can I admit I'm wrong when you won't tell me what you actually ment?

Note: just because I disagree with you about this doesn't mean I hate you for life.

[Phil Deakins Member]

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leliel Mirihi wrote:

WTF are you even talking about then? How can I admit I'm wrong when you won't tell me what you actually ment?

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You made the mistake of thinking that this discussion was about the methods of moving around in a 3D environment, and you posted as though it were, but it wasn't about that at all. You compounded the mistake by adding to what I'd written and making a point based on that addition.

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Note: just because I disagree with you about this doesn't mean I hate you for life.

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Me neither. I won't even remember much about it in a day or three

[leliel Mirihi]

I'll break my word and come back for one post because I think I see where part of this misunderstanding came from.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I have a question for too? Jo said she has 3x2m hotel rooms to rent. Do you think it's possible for an rl-sized avatar to navigate well enough in such a furnished room?

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Even if you do, which I genuinely doubt, grabbing your av on the back isn't the way to navigate in a room. It's only a way to see.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

How do you move by grabbing the av on the back?

Even if you can move, it's no way to work thing in SL unless you really want to. The normal way of moving is to press cursor keys.

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Moving and navigating aren't the same thing. How did it change from one to the other so quickly? I thought you meant navigate because that's the word you used in your early posts (admittedly not the word I used in my replies), but I see now that you quickly changed it to move. You're right that you can't move with the mouse (aside from single or double click to move, which means you're wrong), but have a look at one of the meanings of navigate.

"to ascertain or plot and control the course or position of"

One of the ways to ascertain or plot a course is to look around which you can most easily do with the mouse.

You say this discussion is not about the methods of moving (nee navigating) around yet what's this right here?

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Even if you can move, it's no way to work thing in SL unless you really want to. The normal way of moving is to press cursor keys. Maybe you mean to press WSAD keys and swing your av's view around at the same time. It a bit contrived, isn't it?

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That shure looks to me like you're saying one method is better than the other. Not that it really matters tho, topics change over time. The title of this tread is "How tall are you?", not "Should buildings in sl be rl size" or "Can you navigate in a 12' by 12' room".

I won't bother asking you to clarify what you truly mean this time. And I'm done.

[Phil Deakins Member]

You really should have read the whole thread, leliel. You got it completely wrong. The discussion was not about moving/navigating within SL. It was about moving/navigating with a tiny space - specifically within a 12'x12' furnished living room or bedroom. I'm sorry that I didn't add "within a 12'x12' furnished living room or bedroom" each time, but it really wasn't necessary because those who were involved knew what the discussion was about. Those who didn't read it, didn't know and you were one of those.

I'm not going to waste time by writing detailed answers to your questions because you can answer them for yourself by simply reading the thread and getting the gist of the discussion. That's what you should have done in the first place instead of going off on a tangent.

I don't really find fault. You read a post out of context, thought it was about something you knew about (moving is 3D environments) and posted accordingly. It was a mistake, that's all.

[Phil Deakins Member]

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leliel Mirihi wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Even if you can move, it's no way to work thing in SL unless you really want to. The normal way of moving is to press cursor keys. Maybe you mean to press WSAD keys and swing your av's view around at the same time. It a bit contrived, isn't it?

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That shure looks to me like you're saying one method is better than the other. Not that it really matters tho, topics change over time. The title of this tread is "How tall are you?", not "Should buildings in sl be rl size" or "Can you navigate in a 12' by 12' room".

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Look. There is nothing in what you quoted of mine that suggests that one method is "better" than the other. One methods is much more normal in SL than the other but that's quite a different thing. If you'd bothered to read the thread instead of jumping in without knowing what is was about, you would have realised that using the WASD+mouse method of navigation in a 12'x12' furnished room is "a bit contrived", which is what I said. The intentional implication was that much more space is needed to move around reasonably well in such a small furnished room in a home.

People who were in the discussion, including the one who I replied to (the part of mine that you quoted) understood. Remember that, in a discussion, you don't usually need to rewrite what's gone before because the people in it know what's gone before - just like you would have known if you'd the thread.

You made a mistake that's all - forget it.

[dd4evah]

Since I entered SL I have tweaked my avatar to my own RL characteristics...after all, it is a version of myself!   

BTW....5 feet tall. No less, no more. Just right.

And yes,

almost everyone else towers next to me....LOL