Help! I'm NOT a child!!

[MissLynnHyun]

So, excuse me if I sound snippy about this but I'm rather angry right now.

So I made my avatar with cute in mind. No, I don't want to be a child avi, I just want to be a cute avi.

I've spent a lot of lindens trying to make myself look cute but not like a child. It's been hard but I thought I pulled it off. I guess I was wrong because on many occations I've been told to leave a place (just now got asked to leave a sandbox) cause they don't allow child avi's. Now none of these places were adult places, like I'm not going to places full of sex or anything. Like I said one place was a sandbox another place was a fancy ballroom place that I was looking at to possibly go with my girlfriend later.

Here is what my avi looks like right now, just after being told I couldn't be in a sandbox. http://i.imgur.com/C0V7hi5.jpg

My tag even states that my avi is over 18. My profile states my avi is over 18 and yet I keep getting crap from people telling me "sorry no child avi's"

I like my look, I don't want to change it. I don't want to look slutty, I don't want to wear all black and have a ton of piercings in my face. Sure those looks can work and sometimes they look good, but damn it I want to be cute without people telling me I'm a child.

 

What do you guys think? Do I really look horribly childish? How can someone be cute here without getting this kind of crap from people? Is it even possible?

[Persephone Emerald]

Unfortunately there is discrimination in SL based on how one's avatar looks. This is especially true for young-looking and furry avatars.  Once you've explained to the management of a store, club or region that you're not a child, it's up to them to let you in or not, and no amount of complaining will change that fact. You can either have a taller, more mature avatar for such places or not go back to them.

It might help to understand their perspective, though this likely won't help your position.

Second Life has a bad reputation, partly deserved but also largely undeserved, regarding sexual age-play. Because of fears that someone might report a sim owner for allowing sexual age-play, sim owners & managers tend to be overly strict about allowing young-looking avatars in places where there could be any kind of activity deemed "adult". The Second Life TOS doesn't forbid child avatars in Mature or Adult rated sims, but many sim owners act like it does. They're overreacting, but they're not doing it to be mean to you, just to protect themselves.

[Pamela Galli]

What kind of help is it you are asking for?  Help to do what?

[MissLynnHyun]

Well even in sims that are not rated as Adult I get this kind of treatment.  I suppose I can understand that people don't want to risk child avi's doing sexual things on their sim, but I'm not even going to sims with sex available. What's next? Am I going to get kicked out of a store for innocently shopping because I look younger? 

Also like I said, my tag and my profile state I'm not a child. My profile even states that I do not want to have sex with others or even ERP.

The thought of having a more mature avatar crossed my mind, although I just really don't want to look like everyone else. I see mature and sexy avatars everywhere. Also I've had a mature sexy avatar before and that got me the "hey wanna bang?" messages no matter where I was. So I suppose either way I'm going to get some unwanted attention. Either people wanting to sex me up or telling me to gtfo cause I look like a kid to them.

Honestly, I don't think my avatar looks like a kid at all. Sure she looks young, but if you look around irl, girls ages 18 to at least 25 sometimes still look really really young. I think my avi looks like she could be 19-20 years old. She's also 5'7. Shorter than some, but not child short.

Also if I had a more mature avi, I wouldn't know what places I should wear it because I'm getting this kind of stuff in non-adult places.

IMO people need to chill out and not take one look at me and go "OMG SHE LOOKS YOUNG! SHE'S GOING TO GET ME IN TROUBLE!"

I suppose though that you're right. If I want to look younger than most, I'll have to put up with this stuff. It still angers me that it has to be that way and I had to vent it and ask if my avatar really looks that bad that I need to get this kind of crap.

[MissLynnHyun]

@Pamela

Mostly venting but also asking for advice. That's the kind of help I wanted. Getting opinions about how my avi looks, if she really looks so much like a child that maybe it would be best if I changed or something.

I didn't want to have to change. I wanted to know if I was crazy or if other people were the crazy ones for thinking I'm a child.

[Persephone Emerald]

I think they're the crazy ones, but that doesn't really help your situation, does it?

I don't think your avatar looks like a child, but I'm not the one running the clubs or sims that are giving you problems.

I'd suggest having a back-up Outfit (including body shape & clothing) to change into when you get those kinds of remarks, but otherwise look however you want.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Your avatar, while not a kid, does look like a teen to me,  but that's my opinion.  I wouldn't tell you to leave though because I look at profiles before deciding and your's says you aren't a child.

As you probably know, a land owner or their agents can boot you from their property for any reason or no reason at all.  So there really not anything you can do about places that ask you to leave other than change to a more mature looking avi if you want to stay.

[Bobbie Faulds]

You're avi does look 14-16 to me. But that's me.

The club, if it has dancers and/or nudity, they are probably erring on the side of caution. A store, if they sell sex beds or other items or if there is nudity, such as you see with skins, again, erring on the side of caution. The sandbox...I have no idea. Child avis are allowed anywhere on the grid, just can't be in the presense of nudity or sex stuff.

Because the Lindens have the threat of possible account termination, many don't want to risk it....shrugs

[Sidnella Riler]

you look fine, maybe wear different clothes style, but I dont think it looks like a child, how tall is the avi?

[Perrie Juran]

---

MissLynnHyun wrote:

<snip>

So I made my avatar with cute in mind. No, I don't want to be a child avi, I just want to be a cute avi.

I've spent a lot of lindens trying to make myself look cute but not like a child.

</snip>

 

---

A couple of thoughts here.

First, the word "child" is a bit of an ambiguous word, context often determining it's meaning.  Many people when they hear the word child with no other defining terms will think of a prepubescent  child.  Because of this sometimes people will use it to inflame responses that actually have nothing to do with the actual age of the child.  But for the purpose of the TOS, child refers to a minor person, under the age of 18.

But getting to the point at hand, looking at your Ava, I'm a little bit iffy on it.  It does have a teenage look to it and so I can understand places doing what the policies say, erring on the side of caution.  That is what the Policy asks us to do.

I did have a random thought here about your use of the word "cute."  While IRL I might hear someone say, "that is a cute outfit," I don't really know any teen or adult women who like to be referred to as "cute."  I guess some may be trying to be "cute."  Any ladies want to comment on that?

[Bobbie Faulds]

I think she may have been aiming for the Kawaii look...It's the rage in Japan right now.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuteness_in_Japanese_culture 

[Perrie Juran]

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

I think she may have been aiming for the Kawaii look...It's the rage in Japan right now. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuteness_in_Japanese_culture 

---

OK, thanks.  That makes sense. 

I know about that but it is not something that automatically pops up in my mind.

It's really not my kind of fantasy that I seek out.

[Tari Landar]

The av is "cute", which may be your exact problem.  The look you are going for is going to get you associated with not only trying to look "cute", but also look younger. So, in turn, your av looks more like a teen than a woman. You look more like a teen than a woman to me too(I may be biased, I have teens, lol).  That's not a bad thing, of course. Personally, I say, whatever tickles your pickle, if you like it then go for it. However, you have to understand that not only are some folks cautious and definitely erring on the side of caution, some are overly cautious.  There are some people in sl who want absolutely no association with minors in any form, which includes teens. If you, to them, look like a teen, that would put you in that category too.  It's not always necessary a slight against you, personally, just a general "not going there". They have as much right to feel that way, as you do to want to express how you want to look in whatever manner you want.

The same applies to anyone else, though. If your personal choice of looks, mannerisms, behavior, speech, whatever, goes against what someone else desires for their environment, they have every right to not have you in that environment(provided they are given those rights, such as club owners, land owners, etc...). It may suck, but it is what it is.  In a sense, we are all roleplaying, even those of us who are as close to our real selves as we can possibly be. So, we're bound by the rp "rules" of the aeas we visit. For example, I love the Tombstone areas, but, because I choose not to engage in that type of dress or RP, I'm not welcome there. It's not because I'm a bad person, out to start trouble, or whatever...it's because my choices don't fit the environment.  

I have prim babies, and I know the stigma that often surrounds them. There are plenty of times when I take them out around the grid with me, even into stores. I have been asked more than once to please put them away.  I always oblige. I don't get offended, or feel that someone is just being mean to me.  It is their environment, I am a guest, I am bound by whatever "rules" they have...even if they aren't publicly known.  If someone(like club/store/land owner, or their respresentative(s)) said "I don't like your clothes, please change or leave", I would also oblige. Whether or not I agree with that person's decision or desires, doesn't really matter. It's not my land, store, club, sandbox...At my home, I can do what I want, within the TOS LL gives me. Outside of my home, I am at the mercy of everyone else. I can respect that, even if I don't share the desires of everyone else.

Maybe that's an odd way to look at things, and I should desire that people, in general, are more accepting of everyone and anyone(provided they aren't breaking TOS), but I have learned that is not possible in rl, and most certainly is not possible in sl. Sl is much more enjoyable when I go with the flow, I suppose. I avoid places I don't need or want to go, I oblige when asked to follow specific rule(or leave) and I just go about my business.

[Bobbie Faulds]

I think about it because as an RP estate admin, I have to look at avis and judge whether they are a child or lust youngish/kawaii, which is allowed. Have to keep up on this stuff.

[YoSung]

I know that , too .

 

I am Japanese and in SL even much taller than RL and am young looking RL , too -- though I often get banned .

 

But I see many real kid's avis and nothing happens to them !

 

I don't wanna look like a HULK I am a human and wanna look like one .

 

This discrimination is more than annoying

[Drake1 Nightfire]

---

YoSung wrote:

I know that , too .

 

I am Japanese and in SL even much taller than RL and am young looking RL , too -- though I often get banned .

 

But I see many real kid's avis and nothing happens to them !

 

Unless they break the rules, they are allowed anywhere in SL that doesn't have sexual poseballs and or themes.

I don't wanna look like a HULK I am a human and wanna look like one .

 

This discrimination is more than annoying

---

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

It really isn't discrimination at all. You were not asked to leave due to race, religion, nationalUnless you are on your land or LL owned land, you are a guest and should expect to have to follow rules and comply with the owner's wishes or leave.

Personally, I think it is just polite to make your avatar fit the atmosphere of places you visit as a way of showing respect and appreciation to the owner for what they have created and to the other guests.  I like to explore and have no problem adjusting my avatar to fit into the atmosphere or requirements of a sim.  If I go to a historic RP sim, I wear historic dress.  If I go to a mermaid sim, I go as a mermaid.  If I went to a sim just for kids, I'd go as a kid.  I don't wear ripped jeans to a ballroom, or a ballgown on a beach.  It's part of the fun of SL to me.

The Kawaii look may be popular and accepted in Japan, but it isn't all over the world. If you really want to go to places where you have had trouble, you always have the option to keep an avatar that looks more like an adult and wear that or change into it if you were told your avatar isn't welcome because it appears too young.

[Theda Wytchwood]

I understand what you are going through . My av is 5'8 and i usually dress very cute and kawai. Even though im very small and dress cute i still have a womanly figure so its impossible for anyone to mistake me for a child. Also people reading my profile see i have a partner and children. There are still the ignorant few that never even bother to read my profile and look at how small i am and freak out and thinking im a teen. Its not uncommon for adult women avatars to be very short these days ( well short compaired to the amazon height avs). I have seen plenty of small adult female avs with kids that arent much shorter than they are actually so really height should never be an issue. Its what YOU say your av is that matters. If you say you are an adult then you are! Nobody else can tell you any diffrent.

[BijouxLux]

This is generally a height issue. Many places that ban "child avs" also have a height requirement. What is your height on the sliders?

As a rule of thumb if you are having this issue:

-- Short with boobs: no child issue.

-- Tall with no boobs: no child issue.

-- Short with no boobs: potential child issue.

If you don't want to change your height, then change your Sandboxes. Dreams allows child avs, for example.

[VioletCities]

Perrie Juran, I'm a young adult (below 24) and I actually prefer to be called cute, rather than "beautiful." Mostly because those deemed beautiful by many are, to me, not attractive in the least. They are typically women with wide, manly jaws. Cute, to me, is a better compliment.

[VioletCities]

It is discrimination. Looking young isn't going to hurt anybody in a particular sim. The fact of the matter is land owners reserve the right to be discriminatory. The sooner one accepts that fact the sooner one can move on from indignation for being discriminated against over menial differences (height, "Youthful" looking face, etc.)

Furthermore, the avatar from the OP doesn't look like she's attempting to acquire any kawaii look from out of Japan. She just looks like a normal young adult. I can understand being kicked out of special-themed sims like a "mermaid" sim when you're not a mermaid, but the OP stated that she got kicked out of a simple sand-box for looking too young. This is the very essence of discrimination. Discrimination is making a distinction against a particular class or group of people. In this case the discrimination is over the groups of people who have a cute, adorable-looking avatar.

I completely commiserate with her angst over this issue. Not everybody wants their avatar to have stilt legs and a broad-looking, she-male face.

However, I do understand that land owners and club owners have a right to discriminate, but let's call it for what it is; blatant, foolish, and intrinsically nonsensical discrimination of a class of avatars for no other reason than their youthful and adorable essence. So along with those owners right to be discriminatory comes the right to rant and share our grievances concerning those who are ignorant enough to discriminate like this.

So, I've learned to accept the fact that we'll continue being kicked out of sims by fearful and ignorant owners, and I count it as their sim's loss and move on to places with less retardedly strict and discriminatory owners where being cute is an acceptable form of expression. Sim owners ought to be less concerned with appearances and more concerned with the individual's personality and how they conduct themselves within the sim. There's a lot of places on SL and there's plenty that are cute, petite avatar friendly. And I know the simple solution is to only go to those places you know you'll be accepted, but when one is discriminated against one feels the need to express their rightful indignation for that discrimination. Plus, we have a right to air our grievances and if any particular person doesn't like it, they have the right not to read our grievances.

Besides, when it really comes down to it it's people (Not Places) that I truly value. The friends I made who know my personality and like me for me, not judging me based on my avatar's appearance. I know I follow the TOS of LL and that's enough for me. I will not change because of any particular person's misguided fear or prejudice.

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

I have had similar issues, my av is 6'3". Anywhere i go I am the shortest male there. Time after time i get asked if i am a child av. I can't help if they are 8 feet tall.

As a side note, I personally think your av is very cute. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Cute is universal.

[Penny Patton]

---

Bobbie Faulds wrote:

You're avi does look 14-16 to me. But that's me.

---

I've met 14-16 year olds who looked 18-25. 

I'm in my thirties but I'm frequently mistaken for early 20's, I'm still carded at bars and clubs, when I was sick and went to the hospital earlier this year the lady at the emergency care counter initially intended to send me to a pediatrician (which the friends who took me thought was hilarious).

 

That's the whole problem with the "well they look young to me" argument, basing one's assumption of age off appearances. It is completely erroneous. It has no basis in reality. It's wildly innaccurate. It's just silly.

 LL doesn't police adult sims for "young looking" avatars. They only care about sexual ageplay involving participants open about playing an underage character or actual underage residents.

---

BijouxLux wrote:

This is generally a height issue. Many places that ban "child avs" also have a height requirement. What is your height on the sliders?

As a rule of thumb if you are having this issue:

-- Short with boobs: no child issue.

-- Tall with no boobs: no child issue.

-- Short with no boobs: potential child issue.

If you don't want to change your height, then change your Sandboxes. Dreams allows child avs, for example.

---

At one place I worked a couple of years ago, one of my co-workers was a man who was under 5' tall. One of the women I worked with was short and flat as a board, but married and in her late 20's.

I know a 15 year old girl who has bigger breasts than many of the avatars using Lola's. She's not short either. 

 

 These are not foolproof methods of determing the "age" of an avatar and shouldn't be what people rely on. Sims with height rules tend to be particularly stupid because they demand people to be heights where it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to maintain correct adult human proportions. Not to mention oversizing all the environment content wastes a tonne of land impact, which basically means the sim owner is throwing away hundreds of dollars a month and making their sim uglier and less detailed in the process.

 

 Just an FYI but while being a short or "young looking" adult avatar is not against the SL TOS, discrimination is.

[VioletCities]

Bravo, wonderful post. I think my family think I'm nuts as I stood up and clapped in the middle of reading this. lol..

[YoSung]

Thank you - I wish it would be that easy .

 

in my profile i have written the ages of my shapes - but nobody reads it

 

 

aisatu

 

Soo