Avatar height/age restrictions?

[kaymichel]

I am not the tallest person so i have my avatars shaped a bit like myself if possible and i have a few smaller avatars (not child avis but sold as Teen. Had to be to fit my size and also shape a bit) and i do not understand why many areas require my avatar to be 1,80m or something and that smaller avatars are considered children. I know the US have different laws than the rest of the world (being an adult with 21 compared to 18 in most other countries) but to declare an 160 m tall Avatar a child or restrict him/her from a sim seems wrong. I have a friend, and we talked about SL recently. Didnt know she was also a member then so i do not have her SL Name but she has the same problem. She wants to feel like herself there and she is a bit small and chubby (hope she does not read this) and if she uses an avatar her own size she gets kicked out of Sims all the time.

I know SL had or has a Problem with ageplay and pedos but that problem is under control and gets punished  right?  And  that is different from just wanting to have an avatar that looks a bit like you. And nevertheless what is a child avatar and what isnt? Does a female avatar need to be over 1,80 m with big boobs? How many real life people are there like that? Not many. And for the Males, do they have to have a sixpack and beard or can an adult male also be 1,60 m tall and skinny

 

Sorry for any spelling mistakes, english ist my native language

[KlistiesSeMio Ewinaga]

A sim owner can ban anyone from their sim for any reason..

Sim owners who are so worried about ageplay on their sims usually ban shorter (ie: realistic) avatars to be safe.

 

Personally, everyone I ever knew who played an underage avi clearly stated it in their profile.

 

All my avatars, alts and all, are of regular height and fairly short on the scale of things. I've personally never run into the height issue on any sim, but I know people who have.

 

Honestly? Just find different sims to visit.

[kaymichel]

I usually do but it is still weird to consider a totally unnatural, unnormal look "normal" in terms of SL. Everything above 1,53 meters is in the normal range and sim creators should consider this or should be encouraged by LL to allow that. In the end even a child can use a false ID to log in and use an adult avatar or an adult can act as a child without having any illegal intention, just having fun, maybe on a virtual playground. There is always the dark side of that but we should not assume the worst.

 

[Freya Mokusei]

It is well established that a certain variety of SL user is both paranoid and crazy. A certain variety of RL user is paranoid and crazy too, but they're typically old and so don't really matter - in SL these types of people can get in the way.

They absorb and perpetuate the weirdest myths about how SL works, things like:-

• Walking around creates lag
• Anyone who stands still is a Copybotter
• Anyone who right-clicks another person is a Copybotter
• New users are always alts
• Teenagers spend most of their time baiting adults
• Contests are an acceptable way to draw a crowd
• Malls make money
• Alts are detectable 100% of the time
• SL height is a predictor of RL age
• Having an avatar with 80 scripts is bad, but using vendors weighing 4Mb is fine.
• LookAt is a crime

It's perfectly obvious to anyone who uses their brain that motivated sexual ageplayers are unlikely to use child avatars to explore/move around in public. It's even further unlikely that RL minors are sneaking on to Second Life to create child avatars. Height detectors will never solve either of these issues - but some land owners use them because they believe they work, without any critical thought.

These people build the 'rules' of their place based mostly around their own worries and projections. Logic rarely helps. I've found some places where they just copy-paste multiple 'rules' notecards from other sims together, making SUPER-RULES.

Typically it's best to leave them to it. There are other places that aren't run by crazy people.

[Innula Zenovka]

To my mind, this all goes back to when someone decided he could make a quick L$ by selling what purported to be a scripted method of detecting and banning child avatars from your property -- i.e. check their height. 

As you say, it's a stupid idea, but there's no rule to stop stupid people either from buying land in SL or from buying devices to "protect" their land  that a minute's thought should tell them won't work properly .

I'm an admin for a group of Adult sims where we have a strict rule against child avatars, partly because of potential ToS problems for both us and the child avatar but mostly because they make the other visitors feel uncomfortable.   However, we rely on having trained and sensible staff to handle that -- we look at the avatar's size and shape, certainly, but also at the skin, clothes, speech and behaviour, profile and groups, and overall manner and appearance.  

Furthermore, unless there's no doubt at all that the avatar is supposed to represent a child, our staff are instructed to call in, if possible, another staff member or two for a second (or third) opinion before politely asking the visitor to change his or her appearance.     

That's because we want to encourage visitors, not to chase them off without good reason!

There's plenty of places in SL to visit.  If someone wants to exclude all avatars under a certain height from his land, he has every right to do that, but it's no great hardship to anyone not to be allowed into such a place, at least to my mind.   

[Pussycat Catnap]

A number of places in SL have silly rules against avatars that are under 3-million feet tall. When you complain about it, you get falsely labeled as 'height police' or 'height nazi' by the very people booting you out of places for not being over 3-million feet tall... Serious inverted speech there... There's no rational reason for any of these policies. Its just deluded insanity.

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kaymichel wrote:

I know SL had or has a Problem with ageplay and pedos

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It doesn't. Somebody maybe got in trouble like 32 years ago, according to an article on 'made-up-journalism-dot-com', and now folks are acting like the End of Days are here... The problem only exists in the imagination of the paranoid.

[Syo Emerald]

It doesn't. Somebody maybe got in trouble like 32 years ago, according to an article on 'made-up-journalism-dot-com', and now folks are acting like the End of Days are here... The problem only exists in the imagination of the paranoid.

Please, please don't say that. Don't play it down. I've seen them and can say pedophiles are real and they are in Second Life. I've seen places, profiles and groups dedicated to them and their sick fantasies.

[Pussycat Catnap]

I'll say it, because its not there from what I've seen.

I've been in SL for a while, I've been all over the grid, and I know people in many different communities.

 

Its a made up problem from people who have over-active paranoia and read too much into things. Like seeing 'lolita fantasy' and suddenly having 10,001 fears pop up in their minds that got little to do with what's up.

...

This kind of over-reaction happens a lot in SL. I've done it too for other subjects. People see one thing, and fill their own set of blanks, then make an accusation. And journalists run with it and spice it up for ratings - creating a feedback loop.

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

A number of places in SL have silly rules against avatars that are under 3-million feet tall. When you complain about it, you get falsely labeled as 'height police' or 'height nazi' by the very people booting you out of places for not being over 3-million feet tall... Serious inverted speech there... There's no rational reason for any of these policies. Its just deluded insanity.

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Well some of the "normal height" crowd do act like height nazis.  I had one randomly IM me and start in on me about it.  They are no better than the "Firestorm nazis" you complain about.  Some of them really do go out of the way to make their obnoxious presence known.  (To be safe, I'm not calling you obnoxious here, I'm referring to some specific behaviour I've witnessed In World).

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

It doesn't. Somebody maybe got in trouble like 32 years ago, according to an article on 'made-up-journalism-dot-com', and now folks are acting like the End of Days are here... The problem only exists in the imagination of the paranoid.

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For a good while I used to get rankled everytime I saw a "sexual age play is rampant in SL" post.  I used to say bullsh*t.  While I still don't think it is rampant, I've seen enough concrete evidence now that I have to admit it is still a very real problem in SL.

[Syo Emerald]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

I'll say it, because its not there from what I've seen.

I've been in SL for a while, I've been all over the grid, and I know people in many different communities.

 

Its a made up problem from people who have over-active paranoia and read too much into things. Like seeing 'lolita fantasy' and suddenly having 10,001 fears pop up in their minds that got little to do with what's up.

...

This kind of over-reaction happens a lot in SL. I've done it too for other subjects. People see one thing, and fill their own set of blanks, then make an accusation. And journalists run with it and spice it up for ratings - creating a feedback loop.

 

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I'm not talking about lolita fantasies.

But ok, don't believe me. I don't have to imagine anything. I saw that stuff with my own eyes. Its pretty naive to think, that pedos are on the internet, but not in SL. I've seen it. A whole hangout, a whole group and the people frequenting both and what they write.

Of course, I think the whole height restrictions are BS and I have nothing against childavatars.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

I'll say it, because its not there from what I've seen.

I've been in SL for a while, I've been all over the grid, and I know people in many different communities.

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A lot of people who've been in SL for a while -- including a friend who's been in SL longer than I have -- have never seen a Linden.   Doesn't mean there's no such people.

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

A number of places in SL have silly rules against avatars that are under 3-million feet tall. When you complain about it, you get falsely labeled as 'height police' or 'height nazi' by the very people booting you out of places for not being over 3-million feet tall... Serious inverted speech there... There's no rational reason for any of these policies. Its just deluded insanity.

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Well some of the "normal height" crowd do act like height nazis.

 

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Until the short people start banning folks from sims, that just can't be said with any level of credibility.

 

And there is a serious level of paranoia in SL for a crime that really lacks any proof. Just a bunch of rumor, fear mongering, and 'yellow journalism'.

[Syo Emerald]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

A number of places in SL have silly rules against avatars that are under 3-million feet tall. When you complain about it, you get falsely labeled as 'height police' or 'height nazi' by the very people booting you out of places for not being over 3-million feet tall... Serious inverted speech there... There's no rational reason for any of these policies. Its just deluded insanity.

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Well some of the "normal height" crowd do act like height nazis.

 

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Until the short people start banning folks from sims, that just can't be said with any level of credibility.

 

And I see the "I dun feared it, so its real, and its gonna get my skittles!" crowd is all up in here over the 'OMG the Ageplay!' paranoia / delusion.

 

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Its not about ageplay. I'm talking about pedophiles.

People, who cover their profile picks with detailed descriptions of trapping 12 year olds in their basements to torture and rape them. "Roleplay" scenarios the want to act out.

I've once reported a group, which used an image, that suggested to show a girl sitting on the lap of an old man, who slowly moved his hand up her dress. The group was described as a gathering point for "openminded" adults and children who like to enjoy each others company.

I could link you a thread at SLU that deals with a place called "Daddies No Tell Playground". A hangout designed as a playground visited by quite a lot of people and advertised with sexual terms. And no, I don't give people the benefit of a doubt after they IM a child avatar who wanders in with request to hide their thing under her skirt.

Sorry, but no.

Don't say it doesn't exist, just because you haven't seen it yet. Its just not really part of the whole issue about avatar height and discrimination of small avatars, because as I said earlier, I agree totally with you, that its absolute dumb to do that. Childavatars in general have nothing to do with pedophiles, most of them are quite nice people. And of course not every small sized avatar represents a child (which is normaly easy to tell). But that does not equal to "there are no pedos on the grid".

[Pussycat Catnap]

You really win no credibility with me mentioning that specific third-party forum.

- They are not a credible source for ANYTHING. That place is nothing but a hive of the worst of the worst - vile throughout. People there fabricate lies and spread rumor just for the pleasure of seeing how much real life pain they can bring about. Not even just to get a rise out of folks; they do it for no purpose other than pure evil in finding ways to harm others. A number of the regulars there are permanently banned from SL, and often for very good reason.

 

As long as we agree on the main issues of the topic though - we could move on. Except that this paranoia is the motivator for the conduct of these 'height police' that ban short people for delusional reasons. Looks like we just disagree on which of their delusions are actually delusions.

 

 

[Coby Foden]

I propose an addition to the TOS:

You shall not try to estimate avatar's age by avatar's height. In real life we do not estimate person's age by the person's height. Same applies to Second Life. The rule is:
• if it looks like an adult then it's an adult
• if looks like a child then it's a child
Please do note carefully, height has absolutely nothing to do how old or young something is.

Yes. That would put an end to this "height = age" silliness. :smileyvery-happy: :smileytongue:

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

A number of places in SL have silly rules against avatars that are under 3-million feet tall. When you complain about it, you get falsely labeled as 'height police' or 'height nazi' by the very people booting you out of places for not being over 3-million feet tall... Serious inverted speech there... There's no rational reason for any of these policies. Its just deluded insanity.

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Well some of the "normal height" crowd do act like height nazis.

 

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Until the short people start banning folks from sims, that just can't be said with any level of credibility.

 

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So you are saying I am not a credible witness?  That I am just making up what I said?  That there aren't height nazis out there?

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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And there is a serious level of paranoia in SL for a crime that really lacks any proof. Just a bunch of rumor, fear mongering, and 'yellow journalism'.

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I'm fully aware of the fear mongering, etc.  Which is why, as I said, it use to rankle me when the subject came up.

The things I saw were not rumor, fear mongering or the 'yellow journalism.'   I've got no reason to be making this crap up. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

A number of places in SL have silly rules against avatars that are under 3-million feet tall. When you complain about it, you get falsely labeled as 'height police' or 'height nazi' by the very people booting you out of places for not being over 3-million feet tall... Serious inverted speech there... There's no rational reason for any of these policies. Its just deluded insanity.

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Well some of the "normal height" crowd do act like height nazis.

 

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Until the short people start banning folks from sims, that just can't be said with any level of credibility.

 

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So you are saying I am not a credible witness?  That I am just making up what I said?  That there aren't height nazis out there?

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No.

Perhaps this rephrase:

Until the short people start booting folks from sims for being too tall, there is no credibility in calling them height police / height nazis.

They are not the ones booting people - so you've got it flipped.

It doesn't matter jack what they say, until they start acting, there're not the problem, they're not the height police / height nazis. Show me one that's booting people from places for being too tall, and I will agree that one is a height police. But the rest are just loud-mouthing, not enforcing.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

A number of places in SL have silly rules against avatars that are under 3-million feet tall. When you complain about it, you get falsely labeled as 'height police' or 'height nazi' by the very people booting you out of places for not being over 3-million feet tall... Serious inverted speech there... There's no rational reason for any of these policies. Its just deluded insanity.

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Well some of the "normal height" crowd do act like height nazis.

 

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Until the short people start banning folks from sims, that just can't be said with any level of credibility.

 

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So you are saying I am not a credible witness?  That I am just making up what I said?  That there aren't height nazis out there?

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No.

Perhaps this rephrase:

Until the short people start booting folks from sims for being too tall, there is no credibility in calling them height police / height nazis.

They are not the ones booting people - so you've got it flipped.

It doesn't matter jack what they say, until they start acting, there're not the problem, they're not the height police / height nazis. Show me one that's booting people from places for being too tall, and I will agree that one is a height police. But

the rest are just loud-mouthing, not enforcing.

 

 

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So until their harrasment reaches a certain level..............

I see.

Still, while I may agree that some SIM owners, etc, may be over doing it, NONE OF THEM to the best of my knowledge are doing it to harrass anybody.

 

[Aethelwine]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

You really win no credibility with me mentioning that specific third-party forum.

 

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In the case mentioned alot of people myself included went to the sim itself to see what was going on. And the profiles of the people appearing, and indeed the description the group itself provided made clear precisely what they were doing, pedo roleplay. The group still exists and is doing the same thing on a private estate. I paid a visit to check on it and I sent you a notecard with more info to substantiate there is more to it than just a forum thread.

[Aethelwine]

When I see the height restrictions at sims I just ignore them as do others. I have never yet been booted for being too short. My avi at 5'8'' is taller than I am in real life and more than 8" taller than my grandmother was when she passed away at 80.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

So until their harrasment reaches a certain level..............

I see.

Still, while I may agree that some SIM owners, etc, may be over doing it, NONE OF THEM to the best of my knowledge are doing it to harrass anybody.

 

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What harrassment? They're not the ones booting people from places. The other side is.

Your argument is like calling a black man racist for complaining that the KKK is lynching him.

 

Police... look that word up. Part of the defintion involves enforcing some power.

People with no power in something, or people doing no enforcing - they are not the ones to call 'police'. Nor Nazi, which is ab absurd reference to a highly specific political policing state: ie, an enforcement agent.

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

So until their harrasment reaches a certain level..............

I see.

Still, while I may agree that some SIM owners, etc, may be over doing it, NONE OF THEM to the best of my knowledge are doing it to harrass anybody.

 

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What harrassment? They're not the ones booting people from places. The other side is.

Your argument is like calling a black man racist for complaining that the KKK is lynching him.

 

Police... look that word up. Part of the defintion involves enforcing some power.

People with no power in something, or people doing no enforcing - they are not the ones to call 'police'. Nor Nazi, which is ab absurd reference to a highly specific political policing state: ie, an enforcement agent.

 

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I don't believe that you would bring RACISM into this discussion.

Is that what you boil all of life down to?  Racism?

This discussion is so far removed from anything to do with racism it's ridiculous.

Or are you going to claim next that discrimination against short peoples in SL leads to discrimination against short peoples in RL?

The fact that you need to bring this into the discussion just shows how weak your argument is.

Unbelievable.

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

Its an anology - to show you're applying a label backwards.

If analogies are too complex for your brain, consider the rest of what I wrote:

 

They're not the ones booting people from places. The other side is.

Police... look that word up. Part of the defintion involves enforcing some power.

People with no power in something, or people doing no enforcing - they are not the ones to call 'police'. Nor Nazi, which is an absurd reference to a highly specific political policing state: ie, an enforcement agent.

 

My argument weak or not... is at least an argument. But you've got your terminology reversed; you have nothing.

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Its an anology - to show you're applying a label backwards.

If analogies are too complex for your brain, consider the rest of what I wrote:

 

They're not the ones booting people from places. The other side is.

Police... look that word up. Part of the defintion involves enforcing some power.

People with no power in something, or people doing no enforcing - they are not the ones to call 'police'. Nor Nazi, which is an absurd reference to a highly specific political policing state: ie, an enforcement agent.

 

My argument weak or not... is at least an argument. But you've got your terminology reversed; you have nothing.

 

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Oh, I know quite well what an analogy is.

And I know very well the definition of police and of Nazis. 

Long before they had any powers of enforcment the Nazis were there doing what I described, harrassing people.

No matter how you may want to parse it, there is no getting around the fact that you brought racism into this thread. 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

A number of places in SL have silly rules against avatars that are under 3-million feet tall. When you complain about it, you get falsely labeled as 'height police' or 'height nazi' by the very people booting you out of places for not being over 3-million feet tall... Serious inverted speech there... There's no rational reason for any of these policies. Its just deluded insanity.

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Well some of the "normal height" crowd do act like height nazis.

 

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Until the short people start banning folks from sims, that just can't be said with any level of credibility.

 

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So you are saying I am not a credible witness?  That I am just making up what I said?  That there aren't height nazis out there?

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No.

Perhaps this rephrase:

Until the short people start booting folks from sims for being too tall, there is no credibility in calling them height police / height nazis.

They are not the ones booting people - so you've got it flipped.

It doesn't matter jack what they say, until they start acting, there're not the problem, they're not the height police / height nazis. Show me one that's booting people from places for being too tall, and I will agree that one is a height police. But

the rest are just loud-mouthing, not enforcing.

 

 

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There are Petite only sims..