Deploys for the week of 2012-08-27

[Oskar Linden]

 There is no main channel deploy this Tuesday morning. Each of the RC's had issues last week that we cannot promote. This will delay the promotion of the fix for SVC-8124. The issue is fixed in all three RC's still.

Second Life Server (main channel)

There are no changes to main channel. These regions will not be restarted.

2012-08-28, 5:00am: Release Notes: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/12

  

Second Life RC BlueSteel

This channel will have the same maint-server as last week.

• Bug Fixes
  • VWR-5044: Attachments only change/inherit the active group when they're "rezzed
  • VWR-25762: group owned objects appear as owned by (nobody) in Top Scripts and Top Colliders
  • VWR-20320: Show in search and set for sale remain enabled after owner changed
  • SVC-7760: Large object instant messages can corrupt returned object location URL making it impossible to determine the object's location.
  • STORM-1840: Searching legacy names in the "Choose Resident" floater with a period returns no result
  • SVC-7525: Selected objects move when a new keyframe motion is started
  • SVC-7793: Scripted agents can't abandon land on private estates
  • SVC-7917: Please automatically unmute avatars who have muted themselves, and prevent this from occuring server-side.
  • SVC-7968: When TPing using a landmark the server sends two TeleportStart packets
  • SCR-247: Scripts created by Residents who are limited to only the General maturity rating do not function as expected when inside an object that the scripter created that is running in a Moderate or Adult region
  • SCR-318: llInsertString & llSubStringIndex support for 4 bytes characters broken since 12.02.06.248938
  • SCR-359: The http_request() event fails to trigger in child prims that do not use llHTTPResponse() after it has received 64 HTTP requests and will not trigger again even if the script is reset.
  • SVC-8124: Excessive "ParcelOverlay reliable" messages sent by regions since last rolling restart (2012-08-08)
  • SVC-8136: Attachment point pelvis not being released

2012-08-29, 7-11:00am: Release Notes: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/12

 

Second Life RC LeTigre

This channel will have infrastructure changes with no modifications to existing behaviour.

2012-08-29, 7-11:00am: Release Notes: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/12

 

Second Life RC Magnum

This is the same maint-server project from last week.

• Bug Fixes
  • SVC-7641: Object on land sending excessive messages. The messages sent from the simulator about objects now contain location information, making them easier to find and return.
  • SVC-8146: llRezAtRoot() does not set correct parameters (for sale) on rezzed object in Second Life RC BlueSteel 12.08.03.263047
  • SVC-7641: Add object location info to messages, was "Object on land sending excessive messages"
  • SVC-8124: Excessive "ParcelOverlay reliable" messages sent by regions since last rolling restart (2012-08-08)
  • SVC-8136: Attachment point pelvis not being released

 

2012-08-29, 7-11:00am: Release Notes: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/12

 

We will be monitoring this thread during the next week so please feel free to post issues that you feel have been introduced by the new code. Please file a JIRA for issues you find and post the JIRA link into this thread. It really helps us out. When determining if issues are relevant or not research is key. Tracking down exactly the right situation where an issue is occurring greatly speeds up the development process to get fixes in place.

I appreciate your help. Have a good week!

 

__Oskar

 

p.s. If you are interested in helping test SecondLife in beta please join the group "Second Life Beta" in-world. We also have an email list where we communicate upcoming projects and how you can help. (https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/server-beta ) Once a week we meet on ADITI to discuss new features, new bugs, new fixes, and other fun stuff. You are more than welcome. Information is here:https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group

 

[Saffia Widdershins]

Ouch (if I am reading this correctly).

The excessive bandwidth problems are due to continue for another week?

[Chriss Rosca]

Hello Oskar,

Is it an option to have one of the release channels only a fix for SVC-8124, so problems with other fixes won't prevent the fix for SVC-8124 from being promoted.

Greetings, Chriss

[Maelstrom Janus]

Another week at least offline but you greedy so and sos still expect full tier and membership from those of us who cant get in

a damned disgrace !! in the parlance of england 'a few p45s should be being handed out here....'

[sirhc Weatherwax]

To clarify (lest it be misinterpreted) P45 == 'pink slip' in this case

[Maelstrom Janus]

p45 is a tax document people in england get from their employer when their employment is terminated.....its almost synonymous in that context with getting the chop..... or if Id said 'heads should roll'

[Maelstrom Janus]

They should start with the CEO...under whose guidance SL has reached its lowest ebb.....

[Hitomi Tiponi]

With the importance that the user community apparently attaches to SVC-8124 I am also surprised that it has not been given it's own seperate RC to be tested on rather than being rolled in with a large number of other fixes.  Is there a reasoning behind this Oskar?

[Maelstrom Janus]

The reasoning is 'screw the 'community' we'll do it our way  - because we can hide behind TOS and screw the payments out of the 'community'regardless.....'

[NeoBokrug Elytis]

I would rather have a good solid fix that works released, rather than a rushed patch that causes more problems because of insufficient testing.  I pay 2k+ USD per month to LL, and while this bug is a pain to some of my friends-- there are short term remedies.

Take a nap Maelstrom, or turn your draw distance down.

 

[Kimiko Dover]

Hi Oskar,
Why SVC-8177 was not included to "Big Fixes" of RC ??

[Maelstrom Janus]

Linden never fear about giving 'good' customer service when apologists for second rate second life are around.. I dont pay a 150 dollars a month ( not including membership premium) to turn my 'draw distance down' or anything else that reduces quality of service.... the answer to me seems simple turn that usless pathfinding off go test it on a beta grid and come back when it works properly.

[Maelstrom Janus]

... and dont tell me turning pathfinding off doesnt make a differerence...it does .. download a usage meter go to shady where its turned off  take a reading of the usage...then try  Gorgonzola a region where I own land and cant shut the wretched thing off or get live help to deactivate it either and watch those megabytes pile on.... turning draw distance down  - negligible effect.

[Qie Niangao]

This isn't the first time it's been pointed out that Shady is a standalone island, surrounded by void, that therefore couldn't exhibit the bug with Pathfinding turned on, off, or sideways. Gorgonzola, on the other hand, is surrounded by sims and can be expected to show the bug until those sims get the fix.

The draw distance thing, I dunno. If I stand in the southern quadrant of an affected sim, cranking up my draw distance to include some of the diagonally neighboring sim causes a dramatic increase in my bandwidth. Maybe that's not universal.

[Maelstrom Janus]

Qie face it...whatever it is something screwed up sl big time and all we've had since is people blaming those who didnt watch their daily usage.... those who claim this that and the other  help sort the problem out they dont  and lindens insisting  that they dont owe anyone any sort of recompense because the TOS we sign up to are a cop out and they dont guarantee a 'continuous service' in my case that means having been out of sl for three weeks now and running up my usage phenomenoally for the few minutes I have been in.

 

Basically Im sick of all the apologists for a **bleep**ty second rate service that isnt worth 1.5 dollars let alone 150,

[Maelstrom Janus]

The day I discovered this fault and asked what was happening in the Firestorm viewer group and someone who seemed to be in the know said they doubted Lindens would put the fault right on the mainland... Im beginning to concur with that suggestion. Oskar Linden cant even be bothered to answer those asking him about this quite politely.....

[NeoBokrug Elytis]

About your pathfinding claims, did you document any tests?  Did you contribute your findings to the JIRA?  No, from what I read all you did was complain. Which given the circumstances can be expected -- but the JIRA is not a place for it.  It's a nasty bug for sure, and raising a stink to no end isn't helping solve the issue.

I on the other hand have several regions, a small landmass in which to test.  And I've tested AND posted my findings. I have found out that this bug did come at about the same time as pathfinding did.  But with my estate console, turning pathfinding on or off, doesn't make a difference. While the bug may have come with the pathfinding rollout, I am very certain it's not dependant upon pathfinding being enabled.  So get your facts straight, before you make all sorts of nasty accusations.

LL also fast-tracked this issue, putting it before a lot of other things that are being worked on. If you don't like that they're working and testing it as fast as they can, log off until it's fixed.

Yes, you're on mainland and you have to sort of deal with it because you can't change the region settings.  Mainland is also about 2/3rds the price of estate land if you own a whole region.

[Cully Andel]

I'm talking to deaf ears I know, but in the vain hope that we get a reply, then when will we know if the fix works, and will we have to wait until next week or can it be rolled in earlier?

 

*sits and watches the tumbleweed roll by*

[Cully Andel]

From what i can see the figures provided by others aren't exactly helping either. No fix comfirmed yet, but conflicting information about what the problem is. Perhaps we're not all able to work out how to help provide the data and I imagine not being able to log in because SL's used pretty much all your allowance in a few days might somewhat restrict your ability to log in and actually log any data. I logged in with a usage meter, and saw it go mad. I don't know how to actually record this stuff. I just know downloads rocketed. 

People ARE logging off until it's fixed. THAT's the problem! and yet we're all expected to sit quietly and accept that no one from the Lab is actually communicating, and they'll be demanding full payments from us all, even though their error has caused this. (and before anyone starts, I'm not saying bugs don't happen - but there are ways of dealing with it to keep your customers happy, and no one from the lab seems interested in keeping us informed.)

and what? People on mainland don't deserve a working grid because it's cheaper? Owners of private regions get extra perks for their extra tier. Mainland owners should be able to expect the same amount of support, even if we can't do a lot with the estate settings ourselves. And please remember, here in the UK and possibly the rest of Europe, we pay more thanks to VAT.  (and no that's not down to LL - but it is a fact we pay more)

What's causing the frustration for people at the moment is there is no clear communication about what the problem is, and what exactly is being done. First it's a pathfinding issue. Then it isn't. Last week the bug was coming in. Then it didn't, it'll be this week. It isn't. People are assuming it'll be next week - we don't know.  The users here are providing all the suggestions and information and NOT the people actually working on it. They should be the ones telling us what the problem is, not relying on others to post what they think it might be.

I run my own business. If I have a problem, whether of my own making or not, the first thing I do is communicate. I make sure my customers are aware of what the problem is, what the options for solving it are. I provide alternatives and if it's my mistake, I will offer some form of recompense to recover goodwill. The last thing I do is try to pretend it didn't happen, or tell people not to complain.

[NeoBokrug Elytis]

People logging off isn't the problem, it's a byproduct of the issue. Odds are 95% of them will be back when it's resolved.

LL doesn't charge VAT, your government charges VAT. Everyone pays taxes differently -- it doesn't mean you pay more for the service in the end.  Don't like VAT, complain to your government and don't blame LL.

LL is communicating, visit any office hour that's relevant -- or read Nalates blog for a summary.

Owners of private regions get extra perks for their extra tier.

Yes, such as more control over the region, naming their region, having a covenant, opting out of beta region rolls, etc.

Up until last week I was watching the issue, monitoring and commenting on my observations, contributing my thoughts in hope of leading to a fix.  Then there was all sorts of unnessesary drama and nasty comments that did nothing to aid in resolving the issue, posted on the JIRA. While I may be partially responsible for spreading awareness of the issue, I regret all the... hysterics ...it's brought to the JIRA and this forum.

[Cully Andel]

See I did actually put in my comment that the fact we pay vat isn't down to LL. But we still have to pay more because of it.  That is a fact. I didn't blame them.

Office hours - where are these actually advertised?? I have asked this question elsewhere in the past and was met with total silence. Most forum users use the forum to comunicate - LL don't. If you'd like to tell me where I can find these hours I'll see what times they are. In fact I googled and found something, and the technology one is predictably too late for Europeans. So we can't be blamed for not being able to attend even if we wanted to. But then a summary of the meetings on this forum isn't too much to ask either. (And while she's doing a good job, Natales isn't a Linden, it's not actually her responsibilty to communicate. It's theirs)

95% return? we'll see on this one. If the problem's not fixed soon enough people with limits will have had no choice but to go elsewhere.

 

[Maelstrom Janus]

As I said 'something' has screwed SL I was told it was down to pathfinding by the people in the firestorm group who Ive always assumed to have more technical know how than me so any 'accusations' have come via them...Even Lindens help desk accredited the problem to pathfinding so you can have a word with them about 'nasty accusations too. Ive also been in regions where pathfinding is turned off...no problem.

And whatever the problem Lindens have taken responsibility... and in my book you must be nuts if you think a company can take responsibility for a major fault and then wriggle out of paying any sort of recompense to those inconvenienced by it - by virtue of some vague part of TOS which seems to give Lindens the right to claim that any length of period youre out of sl youre not going to get anything back.

I dont know what sort of customer service you expect in the US but I expect something better over here in the UK and you having a go at people who stand up and complain rather than the people who caused the problem stinks !!

 

[Qie Niangao]

FWIW, I agree that "blaming those who didn't watch their daily [data] usage" is absurd. My ISP bills by the bit, so I've gotten a good handle on how much bandwidth different applications burn, and that's how I've prevented overages each month. Sometimes I check the ISP's record as the end of the billing period approaches; once in a while I'll get notified that I'm 75% into the data plan; but I don't monitor my usage with a separate metering application. Kudos to those with such obsessive computing hygiene, but gimme a break.

I also very much support anything that will get the word out about this problem, just to limit the damage to SL users who would otherwise not know about it until their ISP billing cycle is up, with potentially hundreds of US$s in overages.

But I want to get the correct information out about this problem. If you read the jira comment history, it's clear that a lot of time and effort by residents has been required to understand this bug and its effects. Early on, that information presumably helped the Lindens isolate and fix the problem. It's unfortunate (to say the least) that LL did not tell us when they'd found the problem, nor then characterize the problem with enough detail to help us avoid data overage charges. The first real hint the Lab gave us about the nature of the problem was Maestro's jira comment that "[t]he only time you shouldn't see this bug is when all regions you can see into have the fix." This after a week of residents going to great lengths trying to figure it out for themselves.

Another takeaway for the Lab is to fix a process error they made with last week's RC channel rollout. This is a very significant bug, one that they needed to get fixed grid-wide this week. They chose to bundle the fix with different mixes of other stuff in separate RCs--all of which failed for reasons unrelated to this fix. Thus, come server channel rollout yesterday, they had nothing ready to fix the problem. The takeaway: don't do that again. (They're actually making a similar gamble this week, but with more information about what went wrong last time. They'll probably get away with it this time, but personally, I would have had one of the RC channels containing nothing but this fix.)

(On the perennial debate about the relative worth of Mainland vs Estates, I'm hard-pressed to keep my comments germane--and civil. I'd just observe that, before this bug ever arose, there was a superabundance of abandoned Mainland, practically free for the taking. If Mainland tier were such a f'ing good deal, why are there still any Estate sims at all? We Mainlanders put up with a lot... and the numbers show that we put up with more than is offset by the price difference, even without this bug that differentially affects us. I note, however, that Estates with contiguous sims--such as Neo's, and Caledon, and others--also have no way to fix the problem.)

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Maelstrom Janus wrote:

As I said 'something' has screwed SL I was told it was down to pathfinding by the people in the firestorm group who Ive always assumed to have more technical know how than me so any 'accusations' have come via them...Even Lindens help desk accredited the problem to pathfinding so you can have a word with them about 'nasty accusations too. Ive also been in regions where pathfinding is turned off...no problem.

 

---

The problem happened at the same time as the rollout of pathfinding but it isni't connected with the process of pathfinding itself. Pathfinding worked without this bug previously and it still works on the regions where this bug has been corrected. There are regions with pathfinding on and no bug; there are regions with pathfinding on that DO have the bug.

If your neighbor gets a new washing machine and the delivery truck runs over your cat, you can say that the process of your neighbor getting a washing machine caused your cat to be killed. You may even have a liability argument with the washing machine suppliers, depending on where your cat was and how reckless the driver was. However, it is NOT correct to say, "My neighbor's washing machine killed my cat," and, even more important, removing the washing machine will NOT bring your cat back to life.

[Ayesha Askham]

Well I think there is enough bile and spleen being vented so I won't add more.

1) If LL communication was better to users a lot of this noise wouldn't be necessary.  If Office Hours timings were actually published somewhere findable, a lot more "informed" comment could be made.  In nearly four and a half years in SL I still do not know where to find that information, and it is not for want of looking.

2) Linden Lab's handling of this issue has been poor both from a PR viewpoint and from a scientific viewpoint.  It is a given that when you are changing parameters in an experiement you change them one at a time so that you can tell when one change doesn't work.  That (scientific research) is an area that I have spent many years within, and in that respect I KNOW.

Now we are in the aftermath of yet another failure by Linden Lab to move forward in a sensible manner.  Do you people in SF NEVER LEARN?