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CDN Problem or what? Objects not rezzing.


Dagger Faulkwing
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Well this past two weeks has made me begin to question staying in SL simply because of frustration. I had problems last week after the Grid Roll (see http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-10-27/td-p/2852640/page/2) and now this week rezzing has become very odd. Logins fast and smooth, most tp's very good, most rezzing is very fast but now things are becoming odd. I arrived at one store to pick up a group gift and found just an empty table. Tried clicking above the table but nothing appeared. 3 minutes later and the group gift boxes suddenly appeared. Walked into the store opposite to check their group gifts and the store appears almost empty. There are a few wall vendors visible, a few boxes hanging in mid air which I'm sure should have tables under them, but none of the clothing racks are vbisible. I know they were there before this weeks grid roll, I know they're there now because when I try to walk where they should be I get stopped. The rest of the store is fully rezzed, everything crisp and sharp. I've tried the old trick of clicking the empty spaces where I think they were but that doesn't work any longer. Ten minutes+ and still nothing. I'm beginning to doubt my memory of the store now! If this is CDN then it's killing SL for me.

 

(Edit) Okay, I now do believe this might be a CDN problem. I have just logged out and logged back into last location and everything instantly (and I do mean instantly) rezzed. All the mesh clothing racks are visible. This is going to be very annoying.

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I arrived at one store to pick up a group gift and found just an empty table.

You didn't by any chance change active group to that of the store after you arrived, did you? There's a very weird bug associated with changing active groups that causes not-yet-loaded objects to just stop being rendered. It's apparently been around for a while -- long before CDN -- but I only first noticed it myself relatively recently.

It's an unfortunate effect, in that merchants trigger it by trying to promote their stores with group gifts -- and yet switching to the group causes visitors to miss much of the content on the sim, often including the gift itself.

(I don't know the jira for this bug, so I'm not sure it hasn't been fixed, but I kinda doubt it.)

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Ok, new LL viewer so I gave it a try.

Installed - launched - runs - yes, some prims missing but I decided to do it right.

Launched Firestorm and kick that damn bridge out. Don't need it anyways. Then log out.
Then delete cache for the LL viewer.

Ok, now ready for the real test. Run LL again.
Cache empty but loads faster than with cache b4 and all prims there.
Max settings and 300m range and tp down to the surface. It loads the whole sim in no time. All prims there I think but I don't know every prim personally though. But I think it's all there.

Ok, all fine so far, the loading speed is alot higher than anything I have seen before. Guess that will make me consider the other viewers as obsolete for a while. We'll see for how long since it's still not possible to build with the LL viewer. (only for masochists)

I'll hop through a few heavy sims now and fill up the cache. :D

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There`s an even older trick to try and force missing objects to appear, Ctrl+Shift+r. The quirk of the missing objects has been around a long time before CDN.

Quote

"I have found a interim fix to the “missing objects/have to right-click to see them” issue. Do a Ctrl-Shift-R to go to wireframe, then repeat toggling back to normal view. All the missing items are now there. Yes, a band-aid, but is better than having to right-click everywhere."

http://www.firestormviewer.org/top-3-complaints-resolutions-for-4-4-0-release/

 

I remember having to do that a lot, sometimes worked sometimes didn`t. Don`t see missing stuff half as often as I used to.

 

 

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Yes I know about the missing prims issue, I've encountered it quite a lot up until this weeks Grid Roll. The mesh house my partner I have on our land often used to only partially rez both when logging in and when tp'ing home. The quickest way to get it to rez was to right click around until the missing mesh pieces rezzed. Since this weeks Grid Roll everything, and I mean everything, rezzes almost instantly. The problem at both stores was that the missing mesh objects just were not there. I tried right clicking everywhere but there was absolutely no trace of them, yet a few objects and the store itself were rezzed perfectly. I waited over ten minutes and nothing changed. It took a relog before the objects were visible. When I tp'd back to store again everything was visible. It was as though certain objects either weren't being cached or not being uploaded to my viewer until I'd relogged. I had a similar issue with an alpha layer yesterday. It showed as being worn in Inventory yet my feet were visible and nothing I did would make the alpha layer work until I'd relogged. Again I waited over ten minutes, tried all sorts of tricks but it was as though the texture wasn't there.

 

(Edit) And teleports are becoming problematic today. Yesterday was super, today 3 failed teleports so far resulting in relogs each time.

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Inworld for fifteen minutes, this is a copy of help> about -

Firestorm 4.6.7 (42398) Aug 12 2014 02:06:18 (Firestorm-Releasex64) with OpenSimulator support
Release Notes

You are at 66.0, 155.7, 2,002.1 in Myaria located at sim9096.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.42.32:13002)
SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Myaria/66/156/2002
(global coordinates 263,490.0, 313,244.0, 2,002.1)
Second Life Server 14.10.17.295641
Release Notes

CPU: Intel® Core i5-3470 CPU @ 3.20GHz (3200.07 MHz)
Memory: 16333 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 650 Ti/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 9.18.0013.4052
OpenGL Version: 4.4.0

RestrainedLove API: (disabled)
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.24.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1h zlib/1.2.6 c-ares/1.10.0
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.4
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.32
Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Settings mode: Viewer 3
Viewer Skin: Starlight (Nostalgia Blue)
Font Used: Deja Vu (96)
Draw distance: 208
Bandwidth: 500
LOD factor: 2
Render quality: High-Ultra (6/7)
Texture memory: 512 MB (1)
VFS (cache) creation time (UTC): 2014-10-28T18:5:24
Built with MSVC version 1600
Packets Lost: 1/13,003 (0.0%)

 

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Nova Convair wrote:

We'll see for how long since it's
still not possible to build with the LL viewer. (only for masochists)

 

Amen!  And it would take such minor tweaks -- such as copy-paste roation, size, position -- to make the LL viewer usable. Builders are just not on LL coders' radar.

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Nova, I'm a Firestorm user but I did use the LL viewer last week while I was having the problems and again this week but not very much. Last week the LL viewer suffered the same as the Firestorm viewer, failed logins, failed tp's etc. but I admit I haven't tried the LL viewer today. I know Firestorm, being an older viewer, is missing updates that the LL viewer has and I wonder if those might be making Firestorm more susceptible to the problem of missing objects that I'm having today. I must try using it more over the next few days. But how do I tell if the LL viewer is handling things better when the problem is so random.

(Edit) Maybe the LL viewer is better. Having posted the above reply I've just logged back into SL and visited the same store again. My LL viewer and Firestorm each have a separate Cache folder so the store was not already in my LL Cache. The store rezzed complete almost instantly I arrived on the LL viewer. Just a pity the LL Viewer doesn't have the copy/paste build tools and possibly Area Search.

(Edit) Final thought. Using the LL Viewer seems to be a possible solution to my problem but it doesn't have many of the extras that the TPV's have. Firestorm appears more susceptible but has the extras. So, I'm going to stick to the LL Viewer and to 2 of the TPV's I have installed that are up to date and have the extras, too, Alchemy & UKanDo.

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The Firestorm web-page on bandwidth is here and seems to be the only source for bandwidth settings. It should be good for all viewers. 500 is the maximum recommended speed if you're using wifi. With so much being HTTP now, I am not sure it's reliable any more. I'd leave a bigger margin on the line bandwidth than the page recommends, but I am a bear of very little brain. All I have on the combination of UDP and HTTP is rather old, but gives dreadful warnings about how the protocols interact.

 

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WolfBaginski Bearsfoot wrote:

The Firestorm web-page on bandwidth is 
 and seems to be the only source for bandwidth settings. It should be good for all viewers. 500 is the maximum recommended speed if you're using wifi. With so much being HTTP now, I am not sure it's reliable any more. I'd leave a bigger margin on the line bandwidth than the page recommends, but I am a bear of very little brain. All I have on the combination of UDP and HTTP is rather old, but gives dreadful warnings about how the protocols interact.

 

The most recent "official" statements I know of are in THIS THREAD.  Look for Oz & Monty Linden's comments.  While he does not address the issues with wireless, talking in general terms, Monty says in the last post, "Keeping it at or below 1.5Mbps is probably most reliable right now."

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The problem at both stores was that the missing mesh objects just were not there.

I mentioned that issue weeks ago, and Maestro said that if it keeps happening we should file a JIRA. The thing is, there is no way to reproduce it that I know of.

The weirdest part is that the objects we know that should be there — and they are in fact, after a re-log — don't even show in Area Search.

Just like everyone else, I don't know what's causing the issue, but I'd dare speculating that it's a Project Interesting glitch/bug, since this specific issue only started to happen after it was rolled grid-wide. And before some of the "experts" write here that it has been happening for ages, let me tell you that I am aware of that, and this is not exactly the same issue as before, it's like objects are not really there, and nothing works (right-clicking, ctrl+shift+R, whatever) until we re-log.

For me, it all started after Project Interesting has been rolled, during a SL hunt with friends. For some of us, objects were there, and for some others they were not until a re-log was performed. For those who could not see the items, it was like they were not there are all — not found in Area Search, not clickable, nothing.

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MBeatrix wrote:

The weirdest part is that the objects we know that should be there — and they are in fact, after a re-log — don't even show in Area Search.

I'm guessing you mean the "Area Search" in some TPVs, in which case it's not really that weird: if the server hasn't delivered the object information to the viewer, the viewer can't find it. (It would be weird if old-school Area Search scripts couldn't find the missing objects.)

Anyway, yeah, there's a variety of "missing object" jiras. Whirly cites a few of them in the Performance Improvement thread, including the one I mentioned above about changing active group stopping all further scene loading. Some of these arose during one or another of the many phases of Project Interesting, and for the server-side ones, that may be more than a coincidence.

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I'm guessing you mean the "Area Search" in some TPVs, in which case it's not really that weird: if the server hasn't delivered the object information to the viewer, the viewer can't find it. (It would be weird if old-school Area Search scripts couldn't find the missing objects.)

Yes, Qie, you guessed right, I did mean Area Search from TPV's. And yes, the way you put it makes sense.

Anyway, thanks for the additional info on the JIRA's.

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Now the whole issue of missing prims/mesh pieces has become even stranger. I've just tried on a new mesh dress, it came in 5 sizes and 4 different colour variations, and it has a corset like top & a skirt. I tried on the small size first which was a little big, then I tried on the XS size. Only the black corset top rezzed which I thought might be a fault with the dress. So I tried on the other 3 XS size colour variations and found they were all missing the skirt. So I checked the other sizes, everyone was complete. I clicked the empty space where the XS size skirts should be but there was nothing there. I tried Alt-Ctrl-R but no change. So I thought okay a fault with the XS size dresses BUT I decided to relog while wearing one of the XS size dresses. I logged back in and everything was there, top AND skirt. This was UKanDo viewer which is suppossed to be very upto date.

Now if this is a Project Interesting glitch why did it only affect the XS size dresses? Why have I have never encountered anything like this myself before last weeks Grid Roll when CDN went Grid wide? Could it now be a combination of Project Interesting and CDN glitches? I have no idea but it is now beginning to make me despair of SL.

The worst thing about this problem for me is that I really have no idea what is missing from any location because since CDN rolled out last week everything now rezzes so very quickly. I'm no longer waiting around for several minutes having tp'd into a sim waiting for objects and textures to fully rez so I'm not looking for missing objects. At least with the dresses it was very obvious the skirt part was missing! Feeling really fed up at the moment.

(Edit) I didn't change my Group while trying on the dresses.

(Edit) I'm in the UK on BT Infinity (fibre to the box) with line speed around 65 to 70 and I'm hard wired, no wi-fi.

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friends and myself have had major problems with rezzing in Firestorm, wether it be on our avvies or surrounds and even textures sent to us. this has been an issue for over a week making it imposible to really do anything in sl. i have read all the posts but i am non the wiser :matte-motes-sunglasses-1: have tried everything suggested but it still is an issue. is there a clear answer as to what is causing this? a fix? or am i asking too much :matte-motes-big-grin: thanks

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Latest sl viewer has mostly worked great for me but I`ve had 2 big bugouts. Latest being Sunday night, agonizingly slow scene loading on non cached sims even at 32 meter draw distance, agonizingly slow avatar bake and failed outfit changes. Same when I re downloaded firestorm an tried that.

Catznip viewer wasn`t nearly as bad, scene loaded nicely avatar bake a bit slow but not bad. Catznip doesn`t have have any of the project interesting debug settings.........ummmmmmmm

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Oh that is interesting Sara. I'll download and install Catznip and give it a try. Thank you.

(Edit) Catznip does indeed seem better. As with all my viewers, Catznip has it's own Cache folder. Logged in and the whole mesh house was there instantaneously. Then I visited a store where yesterday most of a mesh couch had been missing. Only one arm rest showed but the mesh cat sitting on it. Yesterday that couch wouldn't rez for me or my alt no matter how many times we revisited. Finally I visited it with a friend, she sat on the couch and it appeared. With Catznip the couch was visible the moment I walked into the store. Catznip does seem a little slower at loading but that maybe because it's a new instal. I'll happily put up with slightly slower rezzing speeds so long as I can see everything I should be able to see.

This isn't conclusive though because the dress problem mentioned earlier, once cured by relog while on UKanDo, wouldn't reproduce on other viewers. So, does Project Interesting save changes whatever in a central folder used by all installed viewers bewcause this doesn't seem to be a Cache problem as all my viewers have their own Cache folders.

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Dagger Faulkwing wrote:

......So, does Project Interesting save changes whatever in a central folder used by all installed viewers.......


I shouldn`t worry about that, don`t know all the ins and outs of project interesting, it was aimed at rendering the scene in front of you quicker, don`t think it saves anything at all to disk.

Your`re right that catznip has it`s own cache folder and rezzing will be slower while your cache fills up.

Interesting has been blamed for a lot of things and I filed a jira recently about one aspect of it.

Thinking about why catznip is renedering ok while FS and SL viewers are`nt though is just hurting my brain too much so giving up on that for now :smileyhappy:

 

EDIT:

Nothing to do with interesting, catznip has http textures turned off by default so it`s fetching a lot of textures from the simulator via udp which is slower but bypasses whatever http fetching problem hit sl last night.

 

 

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Sunday nights are usually bad — we call them SLundays. :smileytongue:

But this last one was especially bad concerning a lot of sim crossings. As usual, I went for the LCC cruise and my boat was stalling at most crossings, although it only crashed once, amazingly (Blake Sea - Swash ate it — was never returned, nor could I find it anywhere, something that has been happening a lot since about one month ago.)

LL says that meshes and textures are now loaded into viewers from CDN servers and that fact reduces the load on sim servers, which should be true... But it seems that only the first part of that sentence is. Crossings haven't been this bad in a long time, so when they write "perfomance, perfomance, perfomance" I just feel like... oh, well... Anyway, "perfomance" is just for when you stay at the same sim and don't try doing much?

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[...] it was aimed at rendering the scene in front of you quicker, don`t think it saves anything at all to disk.

I believe the whole sim is supposed to be saved to cache if we log off there... Well, that is true for at least Firestorm, dunno about other viewers.

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Yes, that as well.

If you look in debug settings there`s a bunch that begin SceneLoad.....they`re connected with interesting. There`s one in particular that I set very low because I think that the higher your draw distance is the more negative impact it has. Flying/ sailing around the blake sea regions on a high draw distance became a lot better for me with that debug set low. Psssssssst it`s the one that has a default setting of 75.00 in case you fancy experimenting with it.:smileywink:

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