When is enough LOD enough?

[Christhiana]

I'm working on my first real build (a small house) and I've been working on the LODs for the past week. The other recent thread on LODs gave me a good start but I keep wondering where to put the balance. I've been testing my LODs at LODfactor 1.125 and 2.0 and I find it difficult to decide when there is enough LOD.

My house is mainly build with simple mesh objects, which means there is not much to omit for LODs. For the most pieces I have to keep LOD1 the same as the high poly version otherwise when the LOD switches, the shape changes too much. This offcourse results in a lot more LI then the original model I uploaded with generated LODs.

I've included three screenshots. One which shows the original size, one with LOD1 (which is the same as the original) and one with LOD2. The images are taken at the switching points with a LODfactor of 1.125 Does the LOD2 factor have to be even visible? Considering the LODfactor and viewing distance. I'd rather leave the LOD2 models at the lowest possible to save at least some LI (I already noticed the most Li increase is because of LOD0 and LOD1 being the same). But ofcourse I also want to be a responsible creator and do the right thing. What do you other creators think? When is there enough viewing distance for an object? The parts in the photo that are colored darker have handmade LODs, the white parts are still autogenerated.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Looks good enough to me. Plenty enough detail at a distance, too.

[Chic Aeon]

I test at LOD 2 since that is the default of Firestorm which has 75% of the viewer "pie". Honestly, I logged in with Singularity the other day because of an issue and even PRIM SPHERES looks like tetrahedrons (or whatever - anyway NOT spheres as all ) at 1.25. So the folks that are running with the lowest possible denominator are seeing the world in a VERY ugly state by default.

 

Also -- while I love mesh, take into account that sometimes good old prims will do just fine. You don't state what your land impact is here (or I missed it, late for me) but if you build with prims and then change to convex hull in many cases you can get the same land impact.  I am only saying this as I have been over in OpenSim too this last year and have actually rediscovered prim building. Mesh is glorious when needed, but it doesn't ALWAYS do a better job than prims. Your house might be one of those instances.

 

Learning is good though! Guaranteed.   There are plenty of times that autogenerated works fine. The important thing (to me anyway) is to TEST which you are doing. Being aware is way more than half of the equation.

 

Good luck!

[arton Rotaru]

What I like to do with houses is to keep the main structures as one mesh and keeping those as lowpoly as possible. Due to it's size it's mostlikely the medium LoD only, which will be taken into account to reduce land impact. But as you noted yourself, there isn't much to remove from such a mesh. And since it kills immersion rather quickly, when houses fall apart while camming, I load the High LoD model of those into all  4 LoD slots, and take the few more extra "prims". Like outlining walls one mesh, the roof one mesh, and and adding all the smaller pieces like windows doors etc, as separate meshes with 4 custom LoDs.

Though, as always, it highly depends on the build.

[Christhiana]

Yes I've noticed how terrible the world looks with the default SL viewer settings. It was a real eye opener! I wonder if this is a part of the reason there is such a low retention amongst  new users.

I've compared some parts of my structure with a prim build version but in the case of this house, the prims always come up with more Li. But i've nothing against using regular prims, especially for big simple shapes.

ATM the house has a Li of 62 (was about 50 before I started working on LODs), but that's partly due to the detailed shutters on every window (i'm thinking of making them optional for the customer).

[Christhiana]

I've tried combining parts of the mesh into one object but usually this means a higher Li. I've already spend some time on figuring out how I get the lowest Li there and I'm quite satisfied with the result. I'd probably do it your way if the house consisted of straight walls instead of the column structure I have now. I will give it a try on my next build!

I agree with you on taking the extra prims and getting it right. Everything seems to be about low Li nowadays but in the past few weeks I've really learned that ultra low Li comes at a prize...

[ChinRey]

Judging by the pictures, I'd say the LOD is quite good.

62 LI isn't too bad either. Not exactly low Li but it should be quite acceptable for the market.

You might be able to reduce the LI considerably by using the object impostor trick Drongle mentioned in the other LDO thread for the window shutters. Or maybe you can just make them as textures? A single 32x32 pixel custom texture shouldn't add any lag and if it's well made you'll have to look very closely at the shutters to notice any difference at all.

[Pamela Galli]

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Chic Aeon wrote:

I test at LOD 2 since that is the default of Firestorm which has 75% of the viewer "pie". Honestly, I logged in with Singularity the other day because of an issue and even PRIM SPHERES looks like tetrahedrons (or whatever - anyway NOT spheres as all ) at 1.25. So the folks that are running with the lowest possible denominator

are seeing the world in a VERY ugly state by default.

 

Also -- while I love mesh, take into account that sometimes good old prims will do just fine. You don't state what your land impact is here (or I missed it, late for me) but if you build with prims and then change to convex hull in many cases you can get the same land impact.  I am only saying this as I have been over in OpenSim too this last year and have actually rediscovered prim building. Mesh is glorious when needed, but it doesn't ALWAYS do a better job than prims. Your house might be one of those instances.

 

Learning is good though! Guaranteed.   There are plenty of times that autogenerated works fine. The important thing (to me anyway) is to TEST which you are doing. Being aware is way more than half of the equation.

 

Good luck!

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My recent houses are  part prim, part mesh, depending on which is most suitable for a given purpose.  This one, excluding garden walls, trees, and pool, is 99 prims.  (I build for people who keep their LOD setting at 2.5 up.)

 

 

 

[Pamela Galli]

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Christhiana wrote:

I'm working on my first real build (a small house) and I've been working on the LODs for the past week. The other recent thread on LODs gave me a good start but I keep wondering where to put the balance. I've been testing my LODs at LODfactor 1.125 and 2.0 and I find it difficult to decide when there is enough LOD.

My house is mainly build with simple mesh objects, which means there is not much to omit for LODs. For the most pieces I have to keep LOD1 the same as the high poly version otherwise when the LOD switches, the shape changes too much. This offcourse results in a lot more LI then the original model I uploaded with generated LODs.

I've included three screenshots. One which shows the original size, one with LOD1 (which is the same as the original) and one with LOD2. The images are taken at the switching points with a LODfactor of 1.125 Does the LOD2 factor have to be even visible? Considering the LODfactor and viewing distance. I'd rather leave the LOD2 models at the lowest possible to save at least some LI (I already noticed the most Li increase is because of LOD0 and LOD1 being the same). But ofcourse I also want to be a responsible creator and do the right thing. What do you other creators think? When is there enough viewing distance for an object? The parts in the photo that are colored darker have handmade LODs, the white parts are still autogenerated.

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I dont see a big difference aesthetically between seeing something discernable but not very detailed from across a sim and seeing nothing from across a sim.  I think most people care mostly about how their own stuff looks while they are on or near their own property. 

[Chic Aeon]

All these are very good points and I too often use prims mixed with mesh (floors are good for one thing ).  

 

I think (and have said often) that you need to think about LOD on a project like basis. If you are building a shopping center that is going to go in a whole sim then folks need to be able to see the buildings reasonably well across the sim. If you are building a cute little cabin for a 512 then "across the sim" probably isn't all that important.

 

In general I try to make my buildings viewable from at least half way across the sim at 2.   Now and then that simply won't work if you have very complex and details parts, but it is what I try and aim for.

So far as furniture goes, it WILL be seen from inside the house in most cases. That being said if it falls apart at 12 meters, the item doesn't make it into my blog post .   Even it if is gorgeous. LOD does need to be taken into account. Some designers unfortunately forget that. Good YOU get it!!!!!!

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

 

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Pamela Galli wrote:

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I dont see a big difference aesthetically between seeing something discernable but not very detailed from across a sim and seeing nothing from across a sim.  I think most people care mostly about how their own stuff looks while they are on or near their own property. 

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For those of us who fly, boat, use vehicles or for instance ride horses it does make a difference.

But you are probably right, most people probably don't see beyond the four walls they live in.

And btw, your houses look absolutely stunning.  When I get back into owning land again I'll be shopping your store.

[ChinRey]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

And btw, your houses look absolutely stunning.  When I get back into owning land again I'll be shopping your store.

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I've left some parcels at my sim empty specifically in the hope that somebody would come along and adorn the place with a La Galleria or LAQ house or two... :matte-motes-big-grin:

[Christhiana]

I think for the shutters (I really meant window blinds) that might be the best way to go. In order to have them "pull up", I've already had to had a piece of hidden geometry so that would be perfect for holding the extra material and texture. I could even render a picture of the window blinds (I really meant window blinds) in blender.

[Christhiana]

Wow, your house looks gorgeous! And all that for 99 Li? I'm very impressed!

[Christhiana]

You have a good point there. I don't think my target audience will put this house on a full sim but rather a small parcel. I ussually have my own viewing distance at 128 and then I wouldn't even see the LOD2 for the larger outside parts of the house. But still I would like my build to add to the scenery of SL for everyone, not just the owner. I'd hate it to have a neighbour next to me with a house that looks like revenge of the triangles from my parcel.

[Christhiana]

That's a good point to keep in mind. Build for the purpose! This build is not going to be a castle on a hill at the heart of the sim. I think it will mostly find it's way to 1024-4096 parcels. 

It's not that details that I find difficult to handle in LODs but rather the shape of the object. Omitting vertices always changes the shape drastically in big simple objects. this is making the LOD switch very visible, where omitting details within a shape (when done right) can make the switch look seamless and even unnoticable.

[ChinRey]

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Christhiana wrote:

I think for the shutters (I really meant window blinds) that might be the best way to go. In order to have them "pull up",

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The blinds are moveable? That adds quite a bit of LI of course. I had a similiar challenge with this house. It's just a small 8x12 m cottage yet with ten movable window shutters the LI went up to 10. In the end I decided it was worth it. :matte-motes-smile:

 

 

[Pamela Galli]

What a cute house, Chin, and 10 LI is amazing!

[ChinRey]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

What a cute house, Chin, and 10 LI is amazing!

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Thank you.

But remember this is just a small cottage. It would be easy to make something that looked similar at 5-6 LI. But details like those shutters, your columns and Christiana's blinds are worth a little bit extra. We don't save LI just to save LI, we save it to make room for more things like that.