Mesh upload quagmire - any constructive help appreciated (Maya 2014 involved).

[Amilia Zabaleta]

Ok, I'm going to put it all out there, because either I'm really stuck, doing something very wrong, forgot a vital step; or there is something wrong with Maya 2014 suddenly, Second Life Mesh uploads or windows 8.  It's a long list of variables, and I feel I'm losing my mind in the process.  Please be kind in your responses, my patience with this situation is wearing very very thin.

Recently (late June) I acquired a marvelous new laptop, top of the line in graphics and gaming, with Windows 8 installed.  Until then, I had a good quality but standard HP machine, with good graphics and processor, and I was merrily cranking out mesh items using Windows 7, Maya 2013, then upgraded to 2014, exporting the meshes first to an fbx file, and then using the fbx convertor (an older version) to create COLLADA (.dae) files.  They generally uploaded just fine, occasionally some MAV_BLOCK issues, which I could always fix cause I was forgetting to delete random UV maps from the file.  Materials and thus faces were working fine, tris converting just fine, but in general I was in business.

This new machine, Windows 8, installed Maya 2014 (had to decommission it on the old machine, because they make you do that), installed the FBX convertor, then was informed that Maya 2014 can save Collada files directly just fine, so tried that.  Welp, everything I have made since acquiring the new machine has been..very trying.  Yes, I did copy over my old settings for Maya from the old machine.  Yes, I have tried exporting the files as OBJ and deleting history, reducing polys etc. etc.  the list of fixes go on and on, I've spent most of August and September cruising the forums for answers.

The best way I can describe the main issues, when the meshes actually decide to upload, is that what seemed fine in terms of triangle mesh when uploading on the old system (you know, doing that wireframe thing that shows you how dense the mesh is), now uploads like it's on steroids.  Even when I reduce it to the point where the mesh almost deforms.  Where did all of those extra tris come from, all of a sudden?

So, I did a little experiment this morning.  I took one of my meshes that uploaded with absolutely no problems in February, and tried uploading it in beta grid.  It has not been touched or altered since I originally created it.  This is what happened:

  looks fine so far (please no comments on the original numbers, I always reduce the lowest to 0).  At least it didn't give me any major error messages and showed up.

But then I tried to do the upload, and this happened:

\o/....:\  Back in February, I had absolutely no problem with this.

 

Ok, went back to Maya, found the original file, and tried creating a "straight-to-dae" file from it.  When saving it, (this is a question for Maya users)  I got this warning:

 

I tried uploading it on beta grid anyway, just to see what would happen:

Got that pesky "dae parsing issue" message (I've seen that lots of times lately.)

 

Oh and here is another fun error I've been getting lately as well:

 

BTW, I have uploaded the latest version of the FBX convertor for Maya, and have tried it repeatedly for converting to Collada files, but it hasn't worked so far.

There HAVE been some collada meshes that have uploaded ok, but that's after I have severly reduced polys, (which worked just fine before) and again, the surface in SL looks like tris times a million.

AND  I've also gone back and forth using the Firestorm and official viewers, and that has made no difference.

So far my conclusions are: 

either I'm forgetting to tick some box in Maya that would miraculously fix all this.

Or, I'm doing the collada export all wrong.  And/or the new fbx convertor is borked.

OR, Maya 2014 and SL hate Windows 8, straight up.

OR, there is suddenly (since June) a major issue of uploading Maya-created meshes onto the SL platform.

 

So - I've tried to outline all parts of this mess as clearly as possible.  ANY suggestions would be extremely helpful, and please ask questions if some part of this was unclear.  Not sure if I've included all the issues, but a good discussion of this may be helpful to others as well.  THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!

 

One more note, please don't advise me to switch over to Blender.  What is making me crazy here is that three months ago, this all worked just fine, so I know it should be able to work again.  Also, I can't find any updated wiki sources re working with Maya 2014, so if someone can point me in the right direction, that would be great!

[arton Rotaru]

Just to make sure. Do you have any special characters like # or so in your file path? Try to upload from a directory which has no such things in it's path and file names.

[arton Rotaru]

About your triangle count. Well you said you didn't want any comments about it, but then you're also wondering why your meshes look so dense in wireframe?. Well 76000 triangles for such a tiny necklace is rather plenty. No matter to what you reduce the lowest LOD to, it's overkill anyway. They come from your file indeed, there is no magic involved which could add geometry to your meshes.

There are also limits on how many vertices a single mesh can have, and  even a lower limit on triangles per material.

Check out this page. Mesh Technical Overview

[Amilia Zabaleta]

Hello arton, I have no special characters in my file path.  And yes, I know that jewelry items are just little things, but they are much more complicated then a large straight wall on a house would be, for example.  I am working on reducing the mesh count where I can though. Seriously pursuing that as a goal in general.

 

What confuses me is that the density ON THE EXACT SAME OBJECT has increased, and thus becomes unloadable with the new system.  THAT issue is what I'm trying to figure out.  How it all went from a reasonable (mostly) number of tris to an INSANE number when the mesh is looked in wireframe in world.  Where did the extra tris magically come from all of a sudden...?

oh!  and thank you for the page reference, most helpful!

[arton Rotaru]

You may have some level of subdivision accidentally applied to your mesh in Maya, idk.

[IvanBenjammin]

Ok, so you said 'don't advise me to switch over to Blender', but I'm going to tell you to do exactly that, but only for the export process. Not all dae files are created equal, and its possible that an update to Maya or its fbx convertor has added something to the file that the SL uploader can't read.

Blender's dae export has been developed in part BY SL creators, and its proven to work. I can sympathise with you not wanting to model in Blender, because I sure can't. What I do is export obj's from my 3d app (Silo), import those to Blender, then export out daes. Its a bit of a roundabout way of doing things, but it works.

Also, sorry.... holy **** that's a high poly count.

[Chic Aeon]

I read this early in the thread and kept quiet but I am going to chime in here now.

 

MOST issues that I have had have all been with higher density meshes. Note that MY "high density meshes" are NOTHING compared to yours.

 

I understand that your are trying to sort out things. I have had an ongoing graphics issue (hopefully finally fixed or at least mostly now) and went through all the "could it be this" steps. The Maya folks may have more info for you but there aren't all that many Maya folks on this forum. It's a $$$$$ thing except for the folks that are cheating and using "their kid's school copy" (quite a few of those).

 

Anyway.  Have you tired just uploading a VERY SIMPLE object like a torus bangle that has been mapped?  I think a lot of your issue have to do with the VERY HIGH DENSITY of your mesh. Yes, I know you said not to say anything but in all the grids I have been on (and that is a lot) problems always arise with dense mesh. This platform and the others based on this platform are not designed for that. The uploader has issues.

 

WHY the uploader was able to compile (or whatever) your file before and not now "could" be a difference in the current uploader which is trying to curtail the exorbitantly dense mesh folks try and upload. Much of this is stolen with the folks having NO clue let alone paying attention to the TOS.

Your appears to be original (yeah for you). But still. Think about your modeling and make it simpler. I suspect that will solve your issue.

 

I honestly can't even imagine trying to upload a model that complex on any grid I am on. The uploaders would simply go into a catatonic state. Really.

 

 

[Amilia Zabaleta]

Thank you, Chic, and everyone else, for the input so far.  This is good, I had no idea that this was such an issue.  I had found limits elsewhere, and apparently it seemed I was within them, but I totally understand why people are freaking out at those sizes and I am working at reducing big time, learning how to use normal maps, etc. to create more detail with less verts.

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Chic Aeon wrote:

WHY the uploader was able to compile (or whatever) your file before and not now "could" be a difference in the current uploader which is trying to curtail the exorbitantly dense mesh folks try and upload. Much of this is stolen with the folks having NO clue let alone paying attention to the TOS.

 

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Having said that, is there some information or a jira or anything referencing the change in the current uploader?  If I can date that, I might figure out where all this went sideways and work backwards.

Also, if anyone has feedback as to what those errors I listed may mean, it would be greatly appreciated.  I've checked other forums, and all I've been able to find is people just guessing at what could be going on, rather then explaining the error messages themselves.  I think that would be helpful for everyone trying to get familiar with mesh and its problems/procedures.  Thank you.

[Amilia Zabaleta]

Thank you for that feedback, Ivan, I will definitely look into blender and the proces you described after my next project is completed.  Then I'm quitting events until I can beat this process into submission and come up with a lower-poly, workable system.

 

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IvanBenjammin wrote:

Blender's dae export has been developed in part BY SL creators, and its proven to work. I can sympathise with you not wanting to model in Blender, because I sure can't. What I do is export obj's from my 3d app (Silo), import those to Blender, then export out daes. Its a bit of a roundabout way of doing things, but it works.

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[Chic Aeon]

I haven't seen anything on the forums and I stay WAY clear of the JIRA as it completely confuses me.  I personally haven't had any particular issues lately. Honestly most of the time folks really don't know. There are a couple of people that used to be on the forums a lot that knew many ins and outs of the uploader but they have been noticeably absent for some time now.

 

That leaves you with the rest of us that are sometimes in the dark too LOL.

I will say though that judging by the six or so grids I have been on this summer, uploaders in general BALK big time at those large files. So LESS is better and also uploading in pieces might solve part of your problem. GREAT TEXTURES solves a lot of that "needs to be detailed" issue.  Remember not everyone can see those normal maps so putting too much trust in them is most likely not a good thing. Get your item made first and have it look good and then add the materials for the folks that can see them

 

Good luck.

[FaolanNeverwood]

Have you tried applying (I think it's called freezing in maya) the rotation and scale? That usually works for me, i have this problem a lot when i have tiny tiny pieces that I'm trying to upload.

[Medhue Simoni]

Just a shot in the dark, but when I used to use 3ds Max, there was a feature that was labeled smooth, or something like that. When I first learned how to make meshes, I would use it occasionally to make the meshes smooth, but I didn't understand that it made things smoother by adding geometry. So, I'd check to see that you aren't doing something similar.

 

Oh, and Blender kicks butt. I fricken love it. Once you learn it, it's pure joy to create with.