Distorted Mesh?

[Spinell]

I cannot find an explanation as to why this is happening.

I made a mesh avi in blender and rigged it using avastar. The uploaded it into the SL beta grid (skin weights and joint positions). And then noticed something very strange when I focused on the face. See if you can spot the difference:

 

Blender:

 

SL:

Why is this happening? I tried messing with the shape: first I tried one with all the values set to 50. Then I tried the shape I used to adjust avastar in the beggining, before rigging. But nothing.

The rigging of the mesh works fine. I didn't notice anything abnormal. I then thought this might have something to do with collision bones, but I've never used them before. And I did a classic rig, not something for fitted mesh (still haven't tried this at all yet).

 

Anyone care to guess why this is happening?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

no ears.. how odd.

[MIstahMoose]

OMG I KNOW NOW THAT I CAN SEE

YOURE MAKING IT IN ORTHO AND IT IS RENDERED IN PERSPECTIVE WITH SL

NEVER MAKE AVATARS IN ORTHO!

[MIstahMoose]

Not yelling or angry just excited but yeah. There are some things you're just not ever supposed to make in ortho, and avatars are one of them..anything organic really, besides plants..so creatures etc

[MIstahMoose]

I hate that I can't edit. But put blender in perspective and use the proportional editing tool and adjust to gibe you.more human like results. Numpad 5 to switch to perspective and O to enable proportional editing

.scroll wheel to determine how much it effects. (Also the blue circle at the bottom + next to that is the way it effects)

Wish I could edit on mobile or do more detailed replies

[Spinell]

Oohh, I see. Yes, when I change views with number 5, it does look very strange, more similar to how it looks in SL.

Now, can you explain to me why this happens and how I can have the mesh look the same in perspective as it does in ortho?

[Dora Gustafson]

What you see is what you get when you put a small focal length camera lens up someones nose

In SL increase the focal length, press Ctrl+0 a few times and step back a few steps

:smileysurprised::smileyvery-happy:

---

Spinell wrote:

Oohh, I see. Yes, when I change views with number 5, it does look very strange, more similar to how it looks in SL.

Now, can you explain to me why this happens and how I can have the mesh look the same in perspective as it does in ortho?

---

It is all a matter of viewing distance.
Ortho is what you get when viewing from infinity and zoom in to make the object fill the view

[Aquila Kytori]

As Dora has said already , you will get that effect if you use Ctrl + 8 a few times and then zoom in on the head.

Crtl + 9 will reset the camera to default again.

 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Camera_Control     :

Camera Tools

alt-zoom mousewheel can be used to zoom into objects.

Build menu Focus tool has a zoom slider

View> Camera Controls provides an on screen clickable camera interface.

Control + 8 = Increase FOV (fisheye)

Control + 9 = Reset camera

Control + 0 = Telephoto

Click on avatar and mouse around will look around and show your avatar looking around. (If flying this only steers the avatar)

Camera resets when avatar moves. The assumption is that you want to see / know where you are going.

Control-alt-arrow keys rotate up down and around an object

Alt-arrow keys pan right, left and zoom in and out

 

Really hoping that was all that was wrong with it .

[MIstahMoose]

Fixing your camera and FOV is not going to help in my opinion. Due to it being made in ortho it will look like it was made in ortho, distorting your camera to fit the object will make everything else look distorted and only your avi look normal. Then vice versa for everyone else. They will appear normal and the world will as well, but your avi will look distorted. 
Better to make the edits needed in perspective mode, because the object is distorted. Google images of how humans look in orthographic photos. They don't look normal

[Aquila Kytori]

 

I hope you got it wrong this time because I think trying to edit that head in perspective view in Blender to make it look as good will be a nightmare. Wouldn't it always appear to be changing depending on how close you are zoomed in while editing it ?

Anyways the SL avatar head looks fine in Ortho view in Blender and the same (with camera set to default) when rezzed inworld. But distorts as in Spinell's Image when using the wide angled view and zoomed in .

[Spinell]

One of the many reasons I made a mesh avi for myself. This one I'm working with is my second one (my skills got better!).

Well, even with the view problem it STILL looks better than the SL model. but it irks me that it doesn't look as I want it to. I spend so much time modeling this to perfection only to find out it looks nothing like that in SL. T_T

[MIstahMoose]

When making things for video games, especially things that are organic it is best to work in a perspective view, that. Or toggle between the two. If you make it entirely in ortho the distance from the camera is exactly the same no matter the distance of the geometry. So when you take it then to perspective it looks extremely distorted. Every game engine runs on perspective, and thus it is common practice to do things in perspective that is organic. 

If you are modeling from a photo (which has perspective) in ortho mode and then rendering in perspective you are in effect doubling the amount of perspective -- resulting in distortion..

By rule of thumb if you're rendering in ortho graphic, model in orthographic. If you're rendering in perspective model in perspective to avoid distortions.

So if you are trying to keep proportions and have a hard time seeing it while in perspective it is still okay to pop back into ortho and back to perspective. You just have to make sure you're not getting distortions

 

 

ETA: Heres an image I was looking for, finally found it http://noticeverything.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/untitled1.jpg

ETA: Ortho & Perspective modeling is a huge topic in the 3D modeling community. 

Tutorial that explains it in the second paragraph:  http://www.thundercloud-studio.com/main.php?page=gallery.php&Dir=tutorial/MODELING/2/

ETA: Working from a perspective image or reference results in distortion if you're working in ortho, As stated in the tut So if you do it exactly ortho with all the right references and knowledge of anatomy.. it SHOULD come out fine, but is still worth checking in perspective.

[Dora Gustafson]

It is a matter of view
Any photographer can tell you that
And you can see for yourself just by having a friend to help you

• Stand 2 meters from you friend and look him in the eyes and you can see his ears
• Look with one eye 0.25 meters from his nose and you can't

No perspective mapping on a flat surface makes a distortion, only the wrong viewing distance does

:smileysurprised::smileyvery-happy:

 

[Spinell]

Here's the problem.

I didn't KNOW SL used perspective! I'm used to modeling mesh clothing in SL,not avatars, and I never had this problem with the clothing before. So I really didn't now.

I'm tempted to chuck the whole thing and start from scratch...  It's like the 5th time I remodel this mesh avi.

[MIstahMoose]

Really just need to proportionally edit, It shouldnt be too hard of a fix

 

ETA: I really wish it was an easier topic to explain, FOV and ortho vs perspective is soooo debated. You just have to do what works in the end But understanding it is a great step in the right direction~

[Aquila Kytori]

Awesome guide to modeling. Unfortunately can't read it all now have to got to work.

 

Spinell have you asked other people to take close up snapshots of your new avatar head and then show what they see?

[Aquila Kytori]

My mistake ...... I had guessed that Spinell's view was not set to the default (Ctr + 9) and that was causing the problem.

After using Alt + Drag mouse to zoom in I see the face distorting as in Spinell's second image. I guess thats why they set a zoom in limit with the usual mouse scroll zoom in method.

BUT i still don't see how editing the mesh in perspective view would help. Surely if that was done it may look less distorted  when zoomed in on real close but because of that tweaking when viewed from the normal (restricted) viewing distance, it would then lose the desired shape again? So instead of appearing strange some of the time it would appear strange most of the time.

Is it even possible to have both, looking how it is suppose to at usual viewing distance And also looking correct when zoomed in ? surely not ?

Like Dora said If you need to zoom in close (for example a portrait picture) then that is what the "increase the focal length, press Ctrl+0 a few times and step back a few steps" is for.

Spinell don't throw that avatar away to start all over again because it could be you have already achieved perfection (most of the time)

 

[Spinell]

Been working on the face only (rest of the body only needs some adjustments in the shoulders, rest is fairly alright) yesterday and most of today. Using A LOT of proportional editing I've achieved a lot.

Sorry that I can't zoom too much, but it almost looks the same as the original.

Things would go a lot quicker if there was a way to enable background imaging in perspective view. Or if there was any way I could have a model for reference. I have to do this by eye, switching out blender files.

And it STILL doesn't look as good in SL as it does here! It's something about the lighting.

[Gaia Clary]

Avastar should create exactly the same meshes in SL and in Blender. This has been tested dozens of times. So if it it is not a matter of the camera focal length, then maybe you have got a broken testversion of Avastar ? Which exact version of Avastar do you use after all ?

from all i can tell:

 

• Avastar-1.0 is OK except on the left foot and on some areas on the lower arms.
• Avastar-1.1 is OK since update 1054, there should be no distortion when you use classic bones (mBones) and very slight unprecisions when you use fitted mesh. for fitted mesh i am even not sure if that is an Avastar issue at all. I am still looking at that.

Maybe that can be of some help.

 

[Spinell]

Hi Gaia. No, the avatar I'm building is not from avastar. I'm only using the avastar skeletton for rigging. The mesh avatar I modeled from hand.