Ohjiro Watanabe Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I couldn't agree with you more, let me add to your rant by saying that I can't even work out how to save a file in Blender never mind do something with a 3D model. And, by the way, these people that say that Blender is great and the best and so on, they are not even from the planet earth and they have genetic enhancements that you can't compete with. So when they say things like Blender has a logical layout (jaw drops) it is only because they have a Blender logic chip implanted in their brain. If you don't want to build a whole new universe but just want to do some simple stuff (at least to get started) a couple of things you can try. First you can build stuff with plain old prims in SL and export them as mesh, Singularity Viewer can export in both .dae and .obj formats. Wings3D is a free modeling program which has plenty of youtube tutorials and looks like a normal application with ordinary tool bars and menus. You can import .obj (but not dae) and export dae which you can upload to SL. Good luck and don't drive yourself over the edge by using the dreaded Blender. Typical Blender user: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Hollow Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think that's kind of a defeatist way of thinking of things. I guarantee you nobody sat down with any real modelling program on their first day of experimentation and immediately had it all figured out. The only way to become an expert at anything is with hours (days, weeks, months) of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Kytori Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Hi again Blender is your best choice, but the only way you are going to learn Blender is to put aside any thoughts about finding an easier way to creating mesh using other software. You need to commit to Blender for a few months. I have been looking around for Blender 2.7+ video tutorials for beginners and I think this series is very good. ( I have watched tutorials 1, 2 and 5 ) This guy is a professional teacher and it shows. Blender is designed to be used with one hand on the keyboard and the other on the mouse. This means learning the keyboard shortcuts so I would advise you to do as I did when starting out , get a pen and a notepad and write them down as you learn them. The very first entry in my notebook was a drawing of a box with arrows pointing to a Vertex, an Edge, a Triangle and a Polygon. Followed by : Tab = Toggles Object and Edit mode A = Toggles select / deselect All S = Scale R = Rotate G = Grab (translate) T = Toggles Tool shelf on or off N = Toggles Properties panel on or off E = Extrude etc , etc ................ Later I reorganised the list of shortcut keys into two lists, one for Object mode and the other for Edit mode. Why was this important ? Look at the 2 screen shots below, the first is the default Blender workspace Edit window setup , the second is the one I use 98% of the time when actually mesh modeling. You see the screen doesn't have to be confusing, with the use of shortcut keys most of what I want is available to me. To toggle from the first to the second........ in Edit mode with the mouse cursor over the 3D Edit window press Shift + Space bar. So just decide to go with Blender , watch tutorials, try things out and when you get stuck Google will always have an answer somewhere and if you don't know the correct mesh language to ask Google you can always ask here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaia Clary Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Greatings from the Blender Outer Rim: btw: saving a file in Blender: via Keyboard Shortcut: CTRL +S via Mouse: File -> Save Blenderheads always thought that this was standard in earth made gadgets. Blenderheads have a hard time to figure out how earth people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinah Iredell Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Thanks for your reply. I can see why needing to use only one display and not two can be useful. What is polygonal modeling by the way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinah Iredell Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 That makes sense. I agree with you that what you get used to will be what you are drawn to, and what seems easier. I probably would feel that way about photoshop if ever switched to something else. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinah Iredell Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Lol thanks for the cute funny post. It is wonderful to know I was not the only one having problems learning blender. I didnt know you could change prim creations into mesh! That is amazing Thank you so much for telling me about that. Whaty does it do to the land impact of the prim creations? I will also try out the software wings 3d . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinah Iredell Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 I just hope that is even enough for me lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinah Iredell Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Thank you for your help and detailed explanation.I will check out that mesh tutorial . I still do not understand though why the mesh object showed up as cube when I opened it in Blender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinah Iredell Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Thanks for the post. People who love Blender are called " Blenderheads" lol ? Can I borrow that monkey to help me work with mesh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Kytori Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Elinah Iredell wrote: ....... . I still do not understand though why the mesh object showed up as cube when I opened it in Blender? You didn't say if you had a cube in your Scene, ( 3D window) or not before trying to import, so maybe the object got imported and was so small it was inside the cube ? or: In Blender Objects are added at the 3D cursor location which can be moved to new locations with the Left Mouse Button. So perhaps you weren't viewing where the 3D cursor was positioned ? Best is before adding or importing an object always ensure that the 3D cursor is at the center of the 3D window by using the short cut keys Shft + S to bring up the Snap menu then choose Cursor to Center. All mesh Objects that are in your scene will be found in the Outliner window. If it doesn't appear there then it wasn't imported. If the little eye icon next to the Objects name in the Outliner is greyed out that means its hidden so won't be seen, you would need to unhide it to see it again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathy Foil Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Learning to 3D model in an advanced program like Blender or even Maya is a bit like learning to fly in a jumbo jet. There are so many bells and whistles that even a professional program like Maya the interface like can be confusing let alone Blender which has historically had a very difficult interface. I can not speak for how Blender is now but I tried learning Blender about 7 or 8 years ago. I tried everyday for hours a day for a weeks and gave up and I do not give up easily ask anyone who really knows me. Just to give you some idea of my level of skill and competence with computers and programs at the time I tried learning Blender I had been working as a professional full time graphic designer for a graphic design studio for about 10 years. We did print work mostly and some vynle graphics so 2D not 3D design. I had extensive experience with professional programs like Quark, Pagemaker, Photoshop, Illistrator and Corel Draw though Corel Draw was, at the time, considered an armature program it was starting to be used more and more in the professional world. I have no idea how Corel is perceived in the print industry since I left 10 years ago. When you work with professional grade tools and programs the user interface has been honed to work in a certain logic. Yes each program will have its own particular spin on that logic but they won't be so far off from each other that it will seam totally alien so picking up the basics normally comes very quickly. This makes sense since these are finished professional products so the user interface was designed for professional use with the needs of their customers in mind. Now we come to the Blender I tried learning 7 or 8 years ago. Its user interface was not just confusing it was horrific totally alien to anything I had ever used. Even the simple task of opening a file or importing the method of navigation I had to use was totally different than I had ever used before. I have since been told that this was more the way opening a file in Linux worked than Windows. The user interface was basically like a very very bad beta version of a program that was still under development which from what I understand of the history of Blender is not far off. I am sure I won't get the particular details correct but here is what I understand how Blender came to be. A production company, I think outside the U.S., had developed Blender in house to be used solely by their company and had never intended it to be released so no thought was put into the user interface for consumer use. So while in development the focus would have been primarily on capability not user ease. The company went bankrupt and in the settlement the employees who had worked creating Blender didn't want to see the program they had worked so hard on and come to love die so they asked to be given Blender and released it as open source so that could continue. This explains why Blender's user interface was so bad when I first came upon it. My advice to you Elinah is don't start with Blender or even Maya. I would start with Silo 2. It just does polygon modeling and subdivision. Just please don't subdivide more than once or twice at most for SL's sake. Silo has very intuitive controls and since it doesn't do much else there isn't so many things to confuse you in the interface. It is not free you can get it on Steam for $80 right now but if you wait for it to go on sale, probably in 4 months or so, you can pick it up for about $50 USD. I think I got it for $40 over a year ago around New Years. Here's a link. Silo 2 I hope that helps. Cathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalates Urriah Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I don't wanna be a downer but.... 123D is great BUT.... and I review it here: New 3D Modeling Tool – 123D Catch Review... The models tend too be only a starting point. You will need to understand how ro retopologize... #SL Blender Clothes Retopology and how to build revised UVMaps that will work with the new more efficient models. While it sounds good, it is not a tool for beginners. You are trying to eat an elephant. Choose your bites carefully. Definitely plan on spend lots of time learning Blender and the quirks of Second Life building. SL and 3D were not MADE complex. But, they are complex because we are modeling to make things easier for computer render engines. Many ignore that point. BUT... more features are coming to SL that will place pressure on designers to build more efficient models and reduce rener cost. If you are not learning this stuff, you will be in the group of designers that have a hard time selling their goods to smart buyers. New tools for showing users the render cost of things are coming. I am hoping for a pop up that tells people the render cost when they first wear something. This would be great for evaluating demo clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalates Urriah Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 And Medhue gives Blender lessons in SL via Builder's Brewery. He does a very good job. It is well worth your time to attend those classes. Doing so would get you most of the basics and some advanced stuff within a single month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinah Iredell Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Hi thanks for the info . I tried to do the shift s thing didnt really work for maybe I have a different version of the software or something like that. I have noticed that the only mesh objecst blender can see when I open them that do not show up as a cube are the blender files. Other files like ,obj or ,dae do not show up as anything but a cube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinah Iredell Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thanks Cathy I appreciate your input and advice. Interesting how Blender came to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinah Iredell Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thanks for the advice and info . I will try to take the classes. What are render costs exactly ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elinah Iredell Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Being a blenderhead looks painful lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Elinah Iredell wrote: Thanks for the advice and info . I will try to take the classes. What are render costs exactly ? http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Calculating-land-impact/ta-p/974163 http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Rendering_weight Most people know about Land Impact cause you have to 'count prims.' More people are becoming aware of ARW and how poorly designed Mesh clothes can turn them into walking lag bombs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaia Clary Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Think like this: You can't play Bach within your first Piano lesson. Even if you know where the keys are and what they do, you still need to practice a lot before you hear music instead of tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaia Clary Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Maybe this article clarifies the rumours: http://www.blender.org/foundation/history/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Nalates Urriah wrote: And Medhue gives Blender lessons in SL via Builder's Brewery. He does a very good job. It is well worth your time to attend those classes. Doing so would get you most of the basics and some advanced stuff within a single month. I do? Dang, I got so much going on, I don't even remember doing those. I think you must be talking about someone else. If I was doing Blender lessons, I'd definitely go, cause I know what that guy knows. lol I do make tutorials tho, and if anyone wants a tutorial on something specific, then just ask and I'll try to make time. Hope I don't kick myself for saying that. lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Elinah Iredell wrote: Thanks for your review of Blender. The fact that it can be free and better then the extremely expensive competition is impressive to me, but do they really need to make it so confusing? Even you an expert in your field found the interface difficult at first. Is there anything about Blender that can be improved in the future ? Are there things you would like to see added or changed about it to make it even better? First, I'm not an expert. I'm just like everyone else here, learning. At best, I can say I make a living doing this, and I have almost touched every feature in Blender. It's confusing because it does alot, and you need more time with it. In many ways, it's less confusing than SL. The added effort to get used to Blender's right and left click also make it worst. It really did frustrate me to no end, and then always moving the 3D cursor, which I didn't even know what it was for. After deciding that I would not fight Blender's right left click setup, and I embraced it, I started to see the genius of it all, and how the 3D cursor can become your best friend. Outside of clicking, the Blender UI is pretty logical, and totally customizable. The standard layouts for each task, like UV unwrapping, or Animation, are pretty good, but you can make them how you want them. I have my own layouts for both those, cause I tend to have to deal with textures alot, and a different layout makes it faster for me. That's the other big reason for much of the confusion, which is speed. Yeah, Blender could just have 1 way to rotate a bone, but that is likely not going to be the faster way for most. There are literally, 6 or more ways to rotate a bone, just off the top of my head, and the inherent Blender way, is easily the fastest. Even with modeling. You use those exact same shortcuts, like r+x-90, or s+z+0, in both animation, modeling, or any other task. That's when you really become a Blenderhead, when you learn all the shortcuts. I even connect my most used but obscure shortcuts on the extra buttons on my mouse. You know, expecially in the case of LL, I usually have all kinds of gripes and advice on how to improve things, but I really don't, in the case of Blender. Maybe, applying textures could be easier, or less confusing, but other than that, I can't really say much. I also hear alot about what the Blender devs are working on, and it's all good with me. Every single version just seems to get better and better. I do wish that Blender had a direct, already set up, 2 kinect sensor tracking for animations, so I don't have to use other mocap systems, but my workflow right now is pretty easy. Some kind of inherent 3D sensor setup would me nice tho, and some simple face tracking system for mocap facial animations, which I'm playing around with now. It would be nice to have something easy tho, like you just capture your video camera and Blender just tracks the whole shape of your mouth and other features to apply to a character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coby Foden Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Elinah Iredell wrote: I also wanted to ask about this cool looking software developed a couple of years ago at a University in Israel. It apparently can effortlessly change a 2d image in any photo into a 3d model. I noticed that Autodesk just released free software which can make a 3D model from a bunch of photos. Here's the link: Autodesk 123D Catch It's available for: Android, iPhone & iPad and PC. It appears from the videos available that the models are very dense (i.e. have lots of vertices), so those models must be cleaned and simplified (again, in Blender or some other software :matte-motes-big-grin:) before they are good for importing to SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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