3DS Max - Fitted Mesh Broken with New Viewer?

[Chip Midnight]

I've been exporting rigged mesh out of Max into SL without issue for several years with few problems. Now, suddenly, it plain isn't working. DAE files that used to import fine now either crash the viewer or have crazy scale issues where joint positions remain correct but the mesh is inflated around the bones so it looks like a blob with giant hands and feet sticking out.

I'm wondering if another Max user can try a simple test so I can find out whether or not it's broken or if I've suddenly gone crazy and incompetent.

Try this - import one of the fitted mesh rigs downloadable from the wiki using your regular workflow then export it back out and try to import into SL. Are you getting something usable or are you getting a jumbled beach ball with flippers?

If you got a usable fitted rigged mesh please let me know your system units, display units, and import and export units settings.

Thanks!

[Nalates Urriah]

You need to tell us which viewer you are using and what version.

If you have enabled RC Viewer installs, on by default - think, then you may be running an RC viewer. They have a  Project Importer Viewer version 3.7.25.298441 that has a newer importer enabling more materials. It may be a problem. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure nothing has changed.

You can try uploading a mesh previously made that imported to the Preview Grid and see if that works. That should tell you if it is you or SL that is the problem.

 

[Chip Midnight]

I've tried in both the current release viewer from LL 3.7.25 (299021) and Firestorm 4.6.7 (42398). Same issues in both.

[Chip Midnight]

I though I'd probably just changed a setting in the FBX/DAE exporter and lost whatever magic combination was making it work previously, and that's still a possibility, but getting the same results from dae files I created weeks ago that previously uploaded fine makes me think something has changed on the back end.

[Astrid Kaufmat]

A week ago I used stuff riged from maya and no problems at all.After reading this I made a few tests with blender and the wiki second life avatar that you suggest. To me it's fine. The only adjustments that I did in blender to those avatar as they come from linden lab before uploading was apply location rotation scale hence they have some negative sign (without influence anyway) near some 0 values in N-panel. If you want to run a test also with blender I give you a pick with my settings.

To export I have used both ways for transformation type translocrot and matrix:nothing changed. I can't get any iussue. I also tried from the uploader to tick and untick thebones position option, still no iussue  for size, when I rezz the avatar, and when I wear it either.I don't know if it's the grid or itf it's max settings or the age... they say :"gaming, women and wine, while they laugh, they make men pine" (jk)

Anyway you may want to try another test that I also did and do for other software when I try to get people in open grid to upload from other software, using blender as Rosetta Stone, just like an intermediate (in the past even for fitted mesh) I managed to get rigged mesh uploaded from softwares like cinema , modo, even if some genius say that it's not possible yet:B

Here you can see my upload in second life (made today after your post with the standard viewer) from blender using the wiki second life avatar you talked about. It keeps proportion and  I can wear it too. In open grid wearing meshes I've had odd behaviour till I cleaned my cache and made a full clean install of my viewers, but you say that you've already installed others (I guess you clean the pc well when you instal new ones, hence I am the blond here).

More than this I couldn't help I am not a max user, for sure I wouldn't go t max fitted mesh is based on a stretched hack, max uploading is an hack itself. As max user you'd be surely luckier than ime in IMVU where max is the software with more support, while I have to stay with the kit made by katsbits to rig there.IMVU for max users is so far less madness than fittede mesh more logic way to do things.

[Chip Midnight]

Thanks for checking, Astrid. Good to know that Blender remains unchanged. The issue seems specifically related to bone scale, and near as I can tell specifically the collision bones. I really need to get the units setups from a Max user who's able to get working fitted mesh out currently. I'm completely baffled about what's going on.

SL has always been pretty forgiving about scale issues. Stuff I'd built in the wrong system scale (inches) still worked fine. That seems no longer to be the case, at least for me, and testing various combinations of settings so far hasn't arrived at a combination that works. If I set my system units and display units both to meters and import LL's fbx as centimeters it yields a rig that is 1.8 meters tall which should be proper scale. I export to DAE with scale factor of 1.0 (meters) so no scaling is being performed on conversion. On upload to SL, it sees it as 1.8 meters tall, as it should, but this is the result...

It makes no sense at all, especially since SL and Max are supposedly using the same unit scale. This should in theory be a 1 to 1 conversion.

Okay, so it looks like bone scale is way too high, like al the fit bones have been scaled, pushing the verts they influence out into a balloon-like mess. So let's try something else.

This time system units is set to centimeters. Display units is set to meters. The fbx is imported as centimeters (scale factor of 1.0). This yields a rig that is 0.0187 meters. I export to DAE with a scale factor of 1.0 (centimeters). SL sees the model as .019 meters, but the result is the same.

Okay, so rig scale is irrelevant. Maybe the important thing is the scale factor on export. If it's still blowing the bone scale out, let's try exporting as meters which gives a scale factor of 0.01. SL now sees the rig as 1.8 meters again, but the result is the same. So scale factor of .01 is scaling up, not down. Let's try going the other direction, setting export units to milimeters, which gives a scale factor of 10. SL now sees the model as .002 meters. Result? The same.

If export scale is making no difference, then the issue must be conversion happening on import. So with system units still set to centimeters, and display units still set to meters, lets reimport the fbx as meters, which gives a scale factor of .01 yielding a rig of .00019 meters. Exported as centimeters (scale factor 1.0). SL sees the rig as .019 meters. Result? Same.

What the @#$%! is going on here?

[Harry Hyx]

Hey Chip,

I'm new to fitted mesh and all i've done so far is import the file from the wiki into max but I dont seem to be having any issues with scaling. I'm also using max 2012 and the latest official viewer.

I have my display and system units set to meters and i'm importing the file as centimeters.

[Chip Midnight]

Thanks, Harry. Could you tell me the export settings you used?

[Harry Hyx]

Sure here you go, let me know if im missing anything!

[Chip Midnight]

It doesn't get me any closer to figuring out what's going wrong but it at least narrows it down to something happening locally on my end and gives me a benchmark for what should be working. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to test and share your settings.

[Chip Midnight]

Using the same import and export settings and the same version of the FBX plugin I'm still getting garbage. I'm completely flummoxed.

[Chip Midnight]

I think I've figured this out finally. I realized I couldn't even import my exports back into Max without them looking like the same jumbled mess I'm getting in SL, but they would work imported back into Max before adding in the missing bone names to the name_array of the DAE.I'm still completely baffled by this because I've been doing this the same way for ages. These files shouldn't have worked at all. Bad name arrays have always either produced a file where skin weights couldn't be imported or that wouldn't parse at all. I've replaced the bone list I copy and paste from to append the missing bone names and things seem to be working again. Truly bizarre.