Product Removed From My SL Marketplace Store Under Intellectual Property Guidelines????

[Ladanya]

Hi. I just received a notice that an item (A framed memoriam pic of Robin Williams) I listed on my sl marketplace was removed due to intellectual property guidelines. I read the guidelines and it still does not make sense to me why my item was removed. First of all, I never claimed to own rights or that I created the pic of Robin Williams. Second, I find it to be highly unfair for my product to be removed b/c there are many listings on the SL marketplace (from merchants other than myself) who have items based on RL celebrities all the time, even with photos of the late and great Robin Williams. I didn't infringe on anyone or anything, I was just paying tribute to a great talented guy. And if I was infringing by doing that, then Linden Labs should remove everybody else's listings that involve celebrities as well. Also I am sick and tired of my sl marketplace store being unnecessarily flagged and having my items removed that are no different than everybody else's whose stores don't get targetted!:matte-motes-angry:

 

-Ladanya Resident

[Perrie Juran]

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Ladanya wrote:

Hi. I just received a notice that an item (A framed memoriam pic of Robin Williams) I listed on my sl marketplace was removed due to intellectual property guidelines. I read the guidelines and it still does not make sense to me why my item was removed. First of all, I never claimed to own rights or that I created the pic of Robin Williams. Second, I find it to be highly unfair for my product to be removed b/c there are many listings on the SL marketplace (from merchants other than myself) who have items based on RL celebrities all the time, even with photos of the late and great Robin Williams. I didn't infringe on anyone or anything, I was just paying tribute to a great talented guy. And if I was infringing by doing that, then Linden Labs should remove everybody else's listings that involve celebrities as well. Also I am sick and tired of my sl marketplace store being unnecessarily flagged and having my items removed that are no different than everybody else's whose stores don't get targetted!:matte-motes-angry:

 

-Ladanya Resident

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What exactly did the notice say?  Was it a DMCA notification via E Mail?

[Ladanya]

Idk, the notice appeared in a yellow/tan colored box after I had just listed an unrelated item in my sl marketplace store and said that a product from my store was removed due to intellectual property guidelines. Which does not make sense. *smh*

[Amethyst Jetaime]

You are not allowed to use Robin Williams' name and picture without permission of his estate, or whoever owns the rights to his name and images. It is against LL's IP policy and the TOS, because the TOS incorporates the policy by reference.

 

From the official LL Policy on IP

"Please also be aware that celebrities have a "right of publicity", which means that they have a right to control commercial uses of their name, image, likeness, and other aspects of their identity. Although you may be a fan, you risk infringing celebrity rights if you use a celebrity name or likeness in connection with in-world objects you trade, and you don't have the celebrity's permission. "

As for other merchants using his name or image, they just haven't been caught - yet. LL may still working on removing all of them.

[Ladanya]

That is bull. If that is the case then why are there other Robin Williams' based items listed on the sl marketplace from other merchants hmm??? Try it, put his name in the marketplace search engine. And why you are at it, put names of other dead RL celebrities like say "Whitney Houston" or "Kurt Cobain" in the search engine and see what SL products pop up.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I understand why you think it's unfair.  LL sometimes will go looking for products that violate the celebrity policy.  It could well be that others will be removed or have been removed already.  Even if they don't though, there isn't much you can do about it unfortunately.  Personally I feel if they are going to do this they need to take them all down.

 

[Ladanya]

See. That is what I mean. If they want to take certain listings of mine down b/c they claim it violates a certain policy then fine BUT then they should take down everybody else's. I think the whole idea of basing SL products on RL celebrities/brands being a violation is silly b/c if that is the case then why not just take down everything that involves celebrities/brands on the internet down alltogether. I would think that since the internet (and celebrity likeness etc.) is open to the public that people should be able to use some of the sources/likenesses and incorporate them into the SL market and such. It's done all the time in RL. Once again, it wasn't like I was claiming that I created the pic of Robin William's or that I owned anything of his. Even if his estate or any celebrity allowed me to use his/her likeness in the SL market, how would I be able to prove it anyway? What fun is SL if it has all these rules and violation guidelines to limit someone's idea of creativity and/or collaborating RL works with SL products/designs? Btw, thank you Amethyst.

[ObviousAltIsObvious]

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Ladanya wrote:

That is bull. If that is the case then why are there other Robin Williams' based items listed on the sl marketplace from other merchants hmm??? Try it, put his name in the marketplace search engine. And why you are at it, put names of other dead RL celebrities like say "Whitney Houston" or "Kurt Cobain" in the search engine and see what SL products pop up.

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these complaints usually come from companies set up to search the web for these kinds of violations, in return for payments from people and companies who own the rights. they won't necessarily spend much time combing a specific site like the SL marketplace itself, they already find plenty of work with a scattershot approach on the whole web. you got "lucky" and matched one of their image or keyword searches this time.

[Ladanya]

Amazing, someone deleted half the responses that were on this thread. This is exactly what I am talking about. smh

[Ladanya]

Gee, aren't I always the lucky one then!!!:matte-motes-sour:

[LillyBeth Filth]

Was it for Sale or a freebie?

Not that it matters in the case of IP and Copyright, distribution is distribution regardless of whether there is a price tag attached or whether its something that is made freely available for others to download etc.

Many people who come into SL, myself included, learn about Copyright and IP and the vast majority learn the hard way.

I think people are generally more Copyright aware today than we were back in 2006 - 2009. Back then, Copyright was just a word I saw on the back of a DVD.

I know all there is to know about it now because i have to in order not to infringe someone elses work or identity. 

As I say, I learned the hard way and made assumption based on the fact that "Everyone else is doing it, why should'nt I?" 

The SL store I admired as a noob and who inspired me to set up my own texture store in 2005 was selling nothing BUT Googled images made seamless or with an alpha channel added, so I followed suit..

That store was a big deal back in the day, had a fantastic reputation for selling "good textures" and I wanted to be exactly the same so we follow the leaders.

Things are different now as I say.  I know better and big brand stores in SL know better. 

Gone are the days when you could **bleep** in a box and sell it in SL.  

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I understand why you think it's unfair.  LL sometimes will go looking for products that violate the celebrity policy.  It could well be that others will be removed or have been removed already.  Even if they don't though, there isn't much you can do about it unfortunately.  Personally I feel if they are going to do this they need to take them all down.

 

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In some ways that makes no sense.  Because just like with copyrighted items, LL has no way of knowing if someone is licenced to use a Trademark.  The statements in the TOS, etc, only serve as warnings against infringing and explain the possible consequences of infringement.

I'm not saying that they don't do it.  I'm just puzzled here.  Our understanding of Copyright violations is that LL only responds to lawfully issued complaints.  I can't see how it would be different for Trademark.

@Ladanya

First, only Moderators can remove posts and generally that only happens when someone reports a comment as inappropriate content.  Any comment that was posted as a "reply" automatically gets deleted as a consequence regardless of it's content.  That's just how this Forum software works.

But getting back to the Image you had removed.  I do and I don't understand your frustration.

It's frustrating for everyone that only some violating content gets removed while other similar content remains.  I know, right now there is still one image of Robin Williams up on the MP.  It is slightly modified and I am geting a laugh out of the fact the merchant has blazenned all over it "do not copy." **

But that still does not justify anyone using images they do not own.  Even if you are giving it away for free it does not justify it.  That is the law.  When you post something in violation of the law sometimes you get caught.  And when you do get caught there really are no grounds for you to complain.  No matter how unfair the circumstances may seem.

 

**This image on the MP was originally posted to Robin William's Facebook page.  It has since been copied all over the internet.  Whether or not permission was given for people to copy/use this image is an unknown to me.  The Merchant in question could have obtained it from any one of the hundreds of places it has been posted since it was first used by Robin on his Facebook page.  The merchant may not even know the original source.

 

 

 

[Ladanya]

@ Lilly: It was for sale not a freebie but doesn't really matter b/c either if it would be for free, it's still for sale and works in favor of having the store on the market. Unfortunately, it seems that SL always prefers to teach me the hard way.

 

 @ Perrie: That's the thing, I wasn't using or claiming the image as my own. The main thing I was actually selling was the frame and the attached candle. The photo of Robin Williams was added in nice touch and as a memoriam to him. My whole point in this matter is that I am just sick and tired of having my items removed from my sl marketplace especially when the reason is very complicated and yet everyone else who actually are obviously infringing on rights do not have their items removed. Anyways, it's all like a contradiction b/c alot of the items on the sl marketplace are based on RL products and/or some of the content that is incorporated into the items are from the internet. So why not just shut down the whole marketplace then?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Ladanya wrote:

@ Lilly: It was for sale not a freebie but doesn't really matter b/c either if it would be for free, it's still for sale and works in favor of having the store on the market. Unfortunately, it seems that SL always prefers to teach me the hard way.

 

 @ Perrie: That's the thing, I wasn't using or claiming the image as my own. The main thing I was actually selling was the frame and the attached candle. The photo of Robin Williams was added in nice touch and as a memoriam to him. My whole point in this matter is that I am just sick and tired of having my items removed from my sl marketplace especially when the reason is very complicated and yet everyone else who actually are obviously infringing on rights do not have their items removed. Anyways, it's all like a contradiction b/c alot of the items on the sl marketplace are based on RL products and/or some of the content that is incorporated into the items are from the internet. So why not just shut down the whole marketplace then?

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Why should you profit from the death of someone?

If you are sick and tired of having your items removed, perhaps you should follow the laws and rules of LL.

[Ladanya]

I wasn't profitting off someone's death. I'm not like that. Even though the media, the internet, and even people in SL do it all the time. I was paying tribute. I have been trying to follow LL guidelines but it's like there is always some little nagging and accidentally overlooked detail that ends up being flagged on my items like for instance me not having the exact category listed *facepaws*. Anyways, I'm pretty much done with this thread. A thanks to the people who understood what I was saying.

[Perrie Juran]

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Ladanya wrote:

 

 

 @ Perrie: That's the thing, I wasn't using or claiming the image as my own. The main thing I was actually selling was the frame and the attached candle. The photo of Robin Williams was added in nice touch and as a memoriam to him.

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It doesn't matter what you were or weren't claiming, whether you were giving it away or selling it, etc, etc.  You would not have had the right to redistribute it.

 

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Ladanya wrote:

My whole point in this matter is that I am just sick and tired of having my items removed from my sl marketplace especially when the reason is very complicated

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I don't understand what is complicated here.  If you don't have the rights to something you can't use it.

 

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Ladanya wrote:

 Anyways, it's all like a contradiction b/c alot of the items on the sl marketplace are based on RL products and/or some of the content that is incorporated into the items are from the internet.

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You are right, it is a continuous problem, one that many of us wish we knew a solution for.  When people agree to the TOS they agree to only upload what they have the rights to.  But people constantly break that rule. 

 

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Ladanya wrote:

So why not just shut down the whole marketplace then?

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This wouldn't be the first time that has been suggested. 

 

 

[Ladanya]

It's obvious that you don't understand what I mean at all. Whatever. Whether or not I have the right to redistribute something doesn't matter b/c even my items which didn't really violate anything (which are most of my items) have been removed from my marketplace store. I know what my intentions are when I list my items in my SL store and they are NOT to break LL & TOS rules. Simple as that.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Ladanya wrote:

 I know what my intentions are when I list my items in my SL store and they are NOT to break LL & TOS rules. Simple as that.

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Your intentions and the law are not mutualy exclusive.. If you are using an image of a celeb that you do not have the approval to use you are breaking the ToS. Why is that so hard to understand. Your intent doesnt matter.

[Ladanya]

My intent does matter. & I'm sure you wouldn't say that your intent never matters with anything. People use and sell things based on RL celebs in the SL marketplace all the time. Once again, even if I had the permission to redistribute a Celeb's likeness in SL, how could I prove that anyway? What is so hard for you to understand what I am saying? My main point is that some of my items have been removed from my SL marketplace for even reasons that don't make sense period! I didn't write on this forum to argue or debate with anyone. Nor do I want to waste further time on it. There is no point or sense to keep dragging on a topic especially if I know for sure that I am not going to agree with you and you are not going to agree with me. & you can't say that someone's intent doesn't matter, especially if you don't even know them. People make mistakes. Let's even take this out of the context of SL and use RL. For instance, if someone breaks the law (especially if it is a petty crime/violation like not seeing a "stop" sign or a red traffic light and their car keeps moving past it without stopping) and it wasn't his/her intent to violate the rules, would you punish them and/or label them a "criminal"?? Yeah, I think not.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Ladanya wrote:

My intent does matter. & I'm sure you wouldn't say that your intent never matters with anything. People use and sell things based on RL celebs in the SL marketplace all the time. Once again, even if I had the permission to redistribute a Celeb's likeness in SL, how could I prove that anyway? What is so hard for you to understand what I am saying? My main point is that some of my items have been removed from my SL marketplace for even reasons that don't make sense period! I didn't write on this forum to argue or debate with anyone. Nor do I want to waste further time on it.

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If you had permission they wouldnt have filed a IP violation against you. You wouldnt have to prove it, but you would be able to send LL a copy of your user lisence.

According to your original post, your main point was complaining that others havent been caught yet and you have.. So, if someone gets away with robbing a house should it be ok for everyone to do?

if you dont want to "waste more time" unsubscribe from the thread.

[Ladanya]

If anything, I'm not going to unsubscribe from my own forum thread. I would rather delete it, which I might. Once again, you keep proving that you fail to understand my point. 

[Pamela Galli]

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Ladanya wrote:

If anything, I'm not going to unsubscribe from my own forum thread. I would rather delete it, which I might. Once again, you keep proving that you fail to understand my point. 

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1. You can't delete this thread. 

 

2. It is pretty clear who is having trouble understanding the point that it doesn't matter whether someone else has violated TOS in the same way you have, it is still wrong, and no one here is going to give you sympathy for it. 

 

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Ladanya wrote:

If anything, I'm not going to unsubscribe from my own forum thread. I would rather delete it, which I might. Once again, you keep proving that you fail to understand my point. 

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Ok.. i have had a few cups of java and have re-read this whole thread... Apparently your whole point is.. "Other people are breaking the ToS, why can't I?"

And the answer would be, because you got caught. End of discussion.

[Ladanya]

That is not my point at all. I don't want to continually break the rules, nor did I intend to in the first place. End of discussion.

[Ladanya]

I don't want sympathy. You have it all wrong. You don't understand. You have been twisting my words. Did I ask for sympathy? No.