Pamela Galli Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 http://modemworld.wordpress.com/2014/10/11/lab-announces-viewer-managed-marketplace-on-the-way/ I see some positives and negatives. For me one negative is a significant one. Does anyone here know of any merchant who was consulted about the changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebe Avro Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 No, but i guess the same ones that needed the transaction history changing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikka Luik Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Well to answer - I think I know two who were not... and what new marketplace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasher Oh Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I could have sworn the reason we had to migrate to the current system a few years back was because storing product in our inventories /magic boxes was the cause of all the major delivery failures. Region lag outages and all that sort of thing. The Grand Old Duke of York comes to mind - marched them up to the top of the hill and marched them down again. Ho Hum L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 I also notice this announcement was made in an inworld group meeting. Not in the official blog or the forum. Business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Sorbet Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Lasher Oh wrote: I could have sworn the reason we had to migrate to the current system a few years back was because storing product in our inventories /magic boxes was the cause of all the major delivery failures. Region lag outages and all that sort of thing. The Grand Old Duke of York comes to mind - marched them up to the top of the hill and marched them down again. Ho Hum L That change was much bigger. Magic boxes are regular prims. They have contents that on the surface look like avatar inventory, but it's a different animal that lives right in the prim, and that was where the trouble came in. The only way to get stuff from those prims delivered to avatars was thru LSL scripts in those prims, and this brought along a whole chain of communication limitations. SL Exchange was created way back when XML-RPC and email were the only communication options, and both of these systems in LSL had chronic trouble with bottlenecks. And of course, regions went down or got stuffed up in all sorts of interesting ways, so the boxes could fail even if the central connumication stuff was healthy at the time. Adding to the problems, the final delivery step to the avatar went thru the same inventory offers that all LSL scripts have to use, so it was easy to lose deliveries when messages were capped, and so on. Direct delivery eliminated LSL from the delivery process, for any items that could use it. The latest changes are going to have a lot in common with the direct delivery we have now, mostly it's just that the inventory will be stored in different tables. That will make it easier to sync up deliveries with the merchant (the no-copy items in particular are a weak spot in the current implementation that will benefit from closer syncing). But the delivery part is still about the same thing ths time around, moving directly from one inventory to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Yes eliminating some steps between merchant and buyer seems a good thing. Of course, we will see how LL implements it. My concern at this point is how much of making listings and updating will be handled in the viewer. My biggest problem as a merchant, and I know it is for others, is that nearly everything has to be done with my main account inworld. I can have my assistant do photos and Marketplace listings, tho, so I am spread that much less thing. I dont know with the new system how much more of the Marketplace associated tasks will need to be done by my main while logged in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonya Haight Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I would think the "private user group" members aren't allowed to speak to us Pam or admit that they are in the group. The communication does seem to still be an extremely huge problem with the marketplace team, very disappointing that the merchants were not included in this announcement or even asked to participate in the upcoming Aditi tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couldbe Yue Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Call me gunshy but I see all manner of hurt coming our way with this but then, what's sl without chaos to distract us from our business? It's all good fun, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 So apparently its going to be linked directly to our inventories, soooo no more unboxed item for sale. I liked being able to send a folder to the MP then box the item in my inventory as to save space and lower my count. If its linked to my inventory wont they box themselves when i box the item? Seems like LL wants us to have mega huge numbers in our inventory, or no folders on the MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I'm not surprised at all to see this happenning because one of the things the next generation platform is going to need is a functioning (and bug free) Marketplace. And we all know what some ot the biggest issues with the MP are from a usability point of view. For instance the way Demos get handled. Or color choices when an item is available in multiple colors. Maybe I'm getting my hopes up to high but perhaps another benefit of this will be those thing will finally be handled correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: I'm not surprised at all to see this happenning because one of the things the next generation platform is going to need is a functioning (and bug free) Marketplace. And we all know what some ot the biggest issues with the MP are from a usability point of view. For instance the way Demos get handled. Or color choices when an item is available in multiple colors. Maybe I'm getting my hopes up to high but perhaps another benefit of this will be those thing will finally be handled correctly. If they consulted merchants or buyers (and I see that Brooke mentions they have), they will make those changes. But that begs the question why such trivially easy changes have not already been made. Would be nice if they fix MP search, too -- something else that would be very easy to do right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Pamela Galli wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: I'm not surprised at all to see this happenning because one of the things the next generation platform is going to need is a functioning (and bug free) Marketplace. And we all know what some ot the biggest issues with the MP are from a usability point of view. For instance the way Demos get handled. Or color choices when an item is available in multiple colors. Maybe I'm getting my hopes up to high but perhaps another benefit of this will be those thing will finally be handled correctly. If they consulted merchants or buyers (and I see that Brooke mentions they have), they will make those changes. But that begs the question why such trivially easy changes have not already been made. Would be nice if they fix MP search, too -- something else that would be very easy to do right now. It's not my intention here to make excuses for LL. But it is trivially easy for us to say the changes are trivially easy to do. We remember when Direct Delivery went live and all the ugly problems that raised their ugly heads. Like that lovely bug that caused the wrong images to appear in listings. Somewhere in all the code was an error that had to be rooted out and fixed. I can imagine the look in Mgt's eyes when they were told it might cost 50 or a 100 Thousand Dollars to fix (the labour involved). As I recall, even with all the Merchant's eyes on the problem, it took a few days to find the common denominators. So one thing I am noting here if I understand correctly is they are moving the MP off of the bug plagued data base that may be hindering them from giving us the things we've been asking for. What ever their Master Design Plan is we do hope they have taken into account all the things that have been brought up over and over and over again. If they aren't, if they are just being parochial about what they are doing, then shame on them. In that case they don't really deserve our business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Perrie Juran wrote: Pamela Galli wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: I'm not surprised at all to see this happenning because one of the things the next generation platform is going to need is a functioning (and bug free) Marketplace. And we all know what some ot the biggest issues with the MP are from a usability point of view. For instance the way Demos get handled. Or color choices when an item is available in multiple colors. Maybe I'm getting my hopes up to high but perhaps another benefit of this will be those thing will finally be handled correctly. If they consulted merchants or buyers (and I see that Brooke mentions they have), they will make those changes. But that begs the question why such trivially easy changes have not already been made. Would be nice if they fix MP search, too -- something else that would be very easy to do right now. It's not my intention here to make excuses for LL. But it is trivially easy for us to say the changes are trivially easy to do. We remember when Direct Delivery went live and all the ugly problems that raised their ugly heads. Like that lovely bug that caused the wrong images to appear in listings. Somewhere in all the code was an error that had to be rooted out and fixed. I can imagine the look in Mgt's eyes when they were told it might cost 50 or a 100 Thousand Dollars to fix (the labour involved). As I recall, even with all the Merchant's eyes on the problem, it took a few days to find the common denominators. So one thing I am noting here if I understand correctly is they are moving the MP off of the bug plagued data base that may be hindering them from giving us the things we've been asking for. What ever their Master Design Plan is we do hope they have taken into account all the things that have been brought up over and over and over again. If they aren't, if they are just being parochial about what they are doing, then shame on them. In that case they don't really deserve our business. By trivially easy I mean things like cutting the keyworld field capacity in half or more, so people could use only the small handful of words relevant to a search of that product, instead of cramming it with irrelevant terms. That alone would vastly improve search. Or eliminating the name of the store and the name of the avatar-seller from search, so "House of Shoes" did not show up on every search of "house". I am no coder, but seriously? There are many more things like this, which I expected to be addressed after they asked us to take a survey on search a year ago. But hopefully if they have consulted merchants they will at last hear what we and buyers have been pleading for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Pamela Galli wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: Pamela Galli wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: I'm not surprised at all to see this happenning because one of the things the next generation platform is going to need is a functioning (and bug free) Marketplace. And we all know what some ot the biggest issues with the MP are from a usability point of view. For instance the way Demos get handled. Or color choices when an item is available in multiple colors. Maybe I'm getting my hopes up to high but perhaps another benefit of this will be those thing will finally be handled correctly. If they consulted merchants or buyers (and I see that Brooke mentions they have), they will make those changes. But that begs the question why such trivially easy changes have not already been made. Would be nice if they fix MP search, too -- something else that would be very easy to do right now. It's not my intention here to make excuses for LL. But it is trivially easy for us to say the changes are trivially easy to do. We remember when Direct Delivery went live and all the ugly problems that raised their ugly heads. Like that lovely bug that caused the wrong images to appear in listings. Somewhere in all the code was an error that had to be rooted out and fixed. I can imagine the look in Mgt's eyes when they were told it might cost 50 or a 100 Thousand Dollars to fix (the labour involved). As I recall, even with all the Merchant's eyes on the problem, it took a few days to find the common denominators. So one thing I am noting here if I understand correctly is they are moving the MP off of the bug plagued data base that may be hindering them from giving us the things we've been asking for. What ever their Master Design Plan is we do hope they have taken into account all the things that have been brought up over and over and over again. If they aren't, if they are just being parochial about what they are doing, then shame on them. In that case they don't really deserve our business. By trivially easy I mean things like cutting the keyworld field capacity in half or more, so people could use only the small handful of words relevant to a search of that product, instead of cramming it with irrelevant terms. That alone would vastly improve search. Or eliminating the name of the store and the name of the avatar-seller from search, so "House of Shoes" did not show up on every search of "house". I am no coder, but seriously? There are many more things like this, which I expected to be addressed after they asked us to take a survey on search a year ago. But hopefully if they have consulted merchants they will at last hear what we and buyers have been pleading for. yes, agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 This may sound odd, but my only real hope is that LL is listening to(and has listened to) a myriad of the *right merchants and buyers alike. By right, I mean, folks with different ideas, different components they think need fixed, different ideas for how to fix things, etc....from BOTH sides of the fence. If they have a group of folks they're listening to, that all say "yeah I want that fixed too", they're not as likely to implement things those folks haven't thought of., which may turn out to be extremely important. That'll leave us with a product that still may not work right. Ok, I have one more hope, though it goes hand in hand. I hope they've taken a good long, hard look at all of the threads on this forum, in particular, as well as that "survey" we got. Because I think they will have a much more well balanced idea of what we(collective) think is wrong, and how best to improve. Lindens are not regular users of their own product, even they have said that. Even if they have the smartest coders in the world, if they don't use the product, they'll never get a good idea of how the audience views the product. That's one of their biggest mistakes, overall. That and claiming to listen to us, but never implementing anything we say. I remain as hopeful and optimistic as I always have that, someone at the lab, knows what they're doing and understands the customer base enough to realize these things. It's a cautious optimism, but it's still there. The only thing I don't like about these kinds of things and this kind of "testing" (ok, the main thing) is that they take such a tiny sampling of people to use for testing purposes, and because we don't know who the folks are, we can't tell if they have a good balance of what's needed for testing. I've had to do product testing, by that I mean, recruit product testers after creating something, both in sl and in rl, everything form alpha right on up to released products. It's not easy to choose that test group, but it IS important that you have a good balance. Me, I'd pick people both well versed in how things would be best, and folks who may not quite know what needs done but can offer good feedback on what they'd like to see(impossible, or otherwise) and what they do see. I'm not sure LL has the best track record with this, so..I'm left to wonder sometimes if their sampling is actually a good sampling of folks, or not. We all know what one group of merchants would like to see, customers and other merchants may not give a rat's toe about, while things customers may like to see, merchants may not give a rat's toe about. Taking a sampling of only merchants to test, is a bad idea. You need folks from both sides of the fence PLUS merchants who are also customers. Not just merchants who can pretend they're customers for testing purposes alone(if that makes sense). I guess we will see, won't we. One way or another, we're getting something new...whether we like it or not, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 I am just hoping at least we get rid of Commerce Linden in the transaction log and instead have the name of the purchaser AND the name of the object purchased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrish Ashbourne Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Pamela Galli wrote: I am just hoping at least we get rid of Commerce Linden in the transaction log and instead have the name of the purchaser AND the name of the object purchased. In addition to that, I'm hopping this leads to having just one transactions history for inworld and MP sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 This was talked about at the 3rd Party meeting on Friday. Brook explained pretty much everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markkemp Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Well, at least they were working with some real merchants. I feel good that there is a manual migration as frankly I don't trust my listings to some random linden person. Sounds like there was some consultation....... :matte-motes-shocked: And yes, the merchant outbox is the bane of my existence and I have always wondered why I couldn't just put it in a special folder somewhere in my inventory. It's all just different databases after all anyway..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 markkemp wrote: Well, at least they were working with some real merchants. I feel good that there is a manual migration as frankly I don't trust my listings to some random linden person. Sounds like there was some consultation....... :matte-motes-shocked: And yes, the merchant outbox is the bane of my existence and I have always wondered why I couldn't just put it in a special folder somewhere in my inventory. It's all just different databases after all anyway..... We have long wondered which merchants they consulted... None of them here have ever said it was them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: markkemp wrote: Well, at least they were working with some real merchants. I feel good that there is a manual migration as frankly I don't trust my listings to some random linden person. Sounds like there was some consultation....... :matte-motes-shocked: And yes, the merchant outbox is the bane of my existence and I have always wondered why I couldn't just put it in a special folder somewhere in my inventory. It's all just different databases after all anyway..... We have long wondered which merchants they consulted... None of them here have ever said it was them. I just hope that Sassy was among those consulted. But she may not be among the Illuminati. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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