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Toysoldier Thor
Posts: 2,724

My IP Violated by MP Seller - Question

[ Edited ]

So considering I have been creating and selling Full Perms Master Builder Sculpty Terrain packs to the SL (and other virtual worlds) community since 2009 and they have grown to be quite popular, I guess I am a bit surprised it has taken until this month for me to have my very first formal encounter with a violator of my Sculpty Packs Intellectual Property.  

Although I suspect that over the years under the cover and in the shadows (sadly its a cost of doing business) of SL my content has been occasionally distributed freely among some members of the SL community, until last night I have never run head on with a straight-out IP violator of my content  by a so-called MP Merchant.

Well thanks to one of my honest, loyal and vigilante customers in SL who quickly recognized the IP violation of my work and brought it up immediately to my attention, I now have to go through the process of dealing with this unscrupulous MP Merchant.  Of course I cannot mention his name here in the forums but its not hard to find the violator yourself.  

My TornLands Volcano Sculty Maps pack (one of my all time most popular pack) is the content he has converted into their respective self standing prims (i.e. my 20 maps converted to his 20 prims of my maps).  He even used one of my included textures to texture the prims he made from my maps.  You can find my listing quite easy.  So then go to the Marketplace and search for "SCULPTED CRATERS".  Nuff said on finding the violator - his will be the one he is selling for $25L right by mine.

I have checked my sales records back to 2009 and he has never bought this TornLands pack nor anything from me.  So it looks like he received my content illegally (either it was handed to him by a past customer or he copybotted it).  If you do find who I am talking about - another fellow SL merchant has already noticed some of his other listings in the pages of his near free listings is also a duplicate of another SL Creator - I have notified this creator of this Merchant's likely violation of his IP as well.  I assume there are many others within his listings.

Anyway, I have started the painful slow process of addressing this matter and getting this violation of my content by him addressed.  It would be nicer if this Merchant himself were shut down or account even deactivated by LL if its proven that several of his listings are violating IP but I dont hold out hope that LL would be so progressive in dealing with IP Content theft / violations.

My question to all of you that have gone through the DCMA process with LL is:

Once its established that his listing is an IP violation by LL, can I ask LL to provide me a record of all sales this listing has made under this account?  Further yet can I get LL to have him pay me a fair value for all sales he has made from my content?  He sells my content for $25L - I sell my legit content for $850L.  If its proven he made 100 sales from this listing, can I ask LL directly from his account a fair value of lets say $500L per sale?  Or is this something that I would have to file a small claims court on against him directly?  If so, I would guess that makes it not feasible.

I just curious since the sad thing about this is that even when I go through all this work to shut this dude down, the only punishment he gets is that he has to remove the listing.  He is rewarded to keep all the sales he has made in MP as I would guess LL would not even give me all his sales in the past.

Thoughts?

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Perrie Juran
Posts: 9,878
Registered: ‎10-16-2009

Re: My IP Violated by MP Seller - Question

[ Edited ]

Reply to Toysoldier Thor - view message


Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Once its established that his listing is an IP violation by LL, can I ask LL to provide me a record of all sales this listing has made under this account?

Thoughts?


Linden Lab does not make the judgement whether something is an IP violation.

That is entirely up to a Court of Law.

Linden Lab only follows the Law that says the content has to be taken down unless challenged by the offender.

Failing to challenge the Take Down Notice is not prima facie evidence of a violation.

ETA, Damages would be awarded by a Court according to the terms of the Law.  To get the sales information from Linden Lab would require a subpoena.

2nd ETA:  IANAL

Member
Toysoldier Thor
Posts: 2,724

Re: My IP Violated by MP Seller - Question

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message


Perrie Juran wrote:

Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Once its established that his listing is an IP violation by LL, can I ask LL to provide me a record of all sales this listing has made under this account?

Thoughts?


Linden Lab does not make the judgement whether something is an IP violation.

That is entirely up to a Court of Law.

Linden Lab only follows the Law that says the content has to be taken down unless challenged by the offender.

Failing to challenge the Take Down Notice is not prima facie evidence of a violation.


Thanks....

So then its an accurate assumption that seeking penalties from the violator is a Court of Law effort and since his sales likely and my probable compensation would not even equal the first hour with a lawyer.... seeking any penalties from the violator is a waste of time.

How bout his continued participation on MP?  Would a proven DCMA not equate to a direct proven violation by this Merchant's of MP or SL TOS?  As such it would be in LL's right to ban this merchant from MP or even SL if they so feel?

 

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Perrie Juran
Posts: 9,878
Registered: ‎10-16-2009

Re: My IP Violated by MP Seller - Question

Reply to Toysoldier Thor - view message


Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Perrie Juran wrote:

Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Once its established that his listing is an IP violation by LL, can I ask LL to provide me a record of all sales this listing has made under this account?

Thoughts?


Linden Lab does not make the judgement whether something is an IP violation.

That is entirely up to a Court of Law.

Linden Lab only follows the Law that says the content has to be taken down unless challenged by the offender.

Failing to challenge the Take Down Notice is not prima facie evidence of a violation.


Thanks....

So then its an accurate assumption that seeking penalties from the violator is a Court of Law effort and since his sales likely and my probable compensation would not even equal the first hour with a lawyer.... seeking any penalties from the violator is a waste of time.

How bout his continued participation on MP?  Would a proven DCMA not equate to a direct proven violation by this Merchant's of MP or SL TOS?  As such it would be in LL's right to ban this merchant from MP or even SL if they so feel?

 


Banning would still be at Linden Labs discretion. I'm too lazy to look up the pertinent statement in the TOS right now, but the Lab states repeat offenders are subject to having their accounts cancelled by LL.

As far as whether or not it is worth pursuing legally, you'd have to consult an attorney.  The Law does have some provisions that allow you to collect legal fees.  The problem then becomes does the person have any assets you can collect.

Disclaimer:  IANAL

Posts: 1,655
Registered: ‎04-16-2009

Re: My IP Violated by MP Seller - Question

Reply to Toysoldier Thor - view message


Toysoldier Thor wrote:

My question to all of you that have gone through the DCMA process with LL is:

Once its established that his listing is an IP violation by LL, can I ask LL to provide me a record of all sales this listing has made under this account?  Further yet can I get LL to have him pay me a fair value for all sales he has made from my content?  He sells my content for $25L - I sell my legit content for $850L.  If its proven he made 100 sales from this listing, can I ask LL directly from his account a fair value of lets say $500L per sale?  Or is this something that I would have to file a small claims court on against him directly?  If so, I would guess that makes it not feasible.

I just curious since the sad thing about this is that even when I go through all this work to shut this dude down, the only punishment he gets is that he has to remove the listing.  He is rewarded to keep all the sales he has made in MP as I would guess LL would not even give me all his sales in the past.

Thoughts?


When you send in an accurate DMCA report (per post or per fax) LL is going to deleted the item from the marketplace and from his inventory.  There is nothing more you have to expect from LL.

When you are looking for financial compensation you have to go to court. It would be very much in your advantage when you have your copyright for the product registered.

 

 

Posts: 1,655
Registered: ‎04-16-2009

Re: My IP Violated by MP Seller - Question

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message


Perrie Juran wrote:

Banning would still be at Linden Labs discretion. I'm too lazy to look up the pertinent statement in the TOS right now, but the Lab states repeat offenders are subject to having their accounts cancelled by LL.



The question is though what does LL consider to be a repeat offender? How many time do have to repeat before you are banned? And how many  fresh alts can you use?

Another question is: How many land must you own to get away with it?

(I know about a repeative infringer, who uses an alt to sell his illegal content in world. The main avatar pays for two sims, both main avatar and alt are still around in SL. Banning this person seems not an option for LL.)

Pamela Galli
Posts: 6,857
Registered: ‎09-09-2009

Re: My IP Violated by MP Seller - Question

Reply to Madeliefste Oh - view message


Madeliefste Oh wrote:

Perrie Juran wrote:

Banning would still be at Linden Labs discretion. I'm too lazy to look up the pertinent statement in the TOS right now, but the Lab states repeat offenders are subject to having their accounts cancelled by LL.



The question is though what does LL consider to be a repeat offender? How many time do have to repeat before you are banned? And how many  fresh alts can you use?

Another question is: How many land must you own to get away with it?

(I know about a repeative infringer, who uses an alt to sell his illegal content in world. The main avatar pays for two sims, both main avatar and alt are still around in SL. Banning this person seems not an option for LL.)


BINGO!  Copybotting is not something you do because you are not paying attention, like running a red light might be. You don't accidentally copybot and/or accidentally sell other people's content.

 

Member
Czari Zenovka
Posts: 4,505

Re: My IP Violated by MP Seller - Question

Reply to Toysoldier Thor - view message

Just wanted to say I am so sorry to hear this happened to you, Toy.  *Hugs*

"I'm not building a game, I'm building a new country."
~Philip Linden (Second Life: The Official Guide, p. 274)

Posts: 5,742
Registered: ‎05-21-2009

Re: My IP Violated by MP Seller - Question

Reply to Toysoldier Thor - view message

It has been a long while since I had to file a DMCA but when I did the guilty party also disappear from SL.  One even IM'd me in an alt because they were banned and mad that I had filed the DMCA forcing them to lose their inventory and an island. (I reported the alt too) Fortunately none of the people filed counter DMCA's which they could have done.  I guess they knew they had been caught red handed and my proof didn't leave much doubt and so it wouldn't hold up in court.  In my DMCA filing I did ask that the avatars be banned so maybe this coupled with the fact no counter notice had something to do with it.

From what I've read on this forum and others it doesn't seem that LL is so apt to ban someone as a result.  But it is hard to say since it is all random reports and we haven't seen any actual statistics and we don't know how many filed counter DMCA's that would have stayed LL's hand until a court ruled on it..

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Posts: 2,455
Topics: 20
Registered: ‎05-10-2010

Re: My IP Violated by MP Seller - Question

Reply to Toysoldier Thor - view message

awww... sorry to read..

the common sense would be that since, this person is acting against the TOS, this person should have his/her account canceled.... But well, we know well that common sense is not the main quality regarding MP and SL business managing from LL.

Anyway, i wish you good luck and if there is anything we can do, just let us know 

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