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Bogas Delicioso
Posts: 4
Topics: 1
Registered: ‎03-23-2011

Marketplace flagging system is being abuse to remove competition

PROBLEM

The flagging system in Xstreet is being abused and this is a MAJOR ISSUE as people can be removed from the market.

People are intentionally taking advantage of the flagging system using AUTOMATED FLAGGING SYSTEMS with items being flagged for all sorts of fake reasons. This is killing creators incomes.

Examples 
A. Items flagged as being in the wrong place.
B. Items flagged as not being the same as described in the photo that have no sales yet!

SOLUTION

1. Only permit an item to be flagged once. If it passes a review it cant be flagged again unless the item or advertising is altered.

2. Only permit people who have purchased the item to flag it.

3. Block people from flagging an unreasonable number of items at once. (block flagging bots)

4. Error on the side of the seller. If you don't have time to properly investigate the complaint, don't delist the item!

5. Train the staff to be on the lookout for people "gaming" the system to remove competition.

Many creators are having the same issue. If you have any input or comments please feel free to add.

Please watch the issue as LL only look at the watching list not votes or we will never get this one solve

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3772

Veronika Garzo
Posts: 24
Topics: 1
Blog Posts: 0
Registered: ‎10-05-2009

Re: Marketplace flagging system is being abuse to remove competition

Reply to Bogas Delicioso - view message

Just left my opinion and voted on this Jira.  If this loophole is factual, it is frankly ludicrous that Linden Labs would allow this to be perpetuated.  This is open to abuse by every nut with time to spare and for the competition to take out others listings.  The loss of revenue is of course a two way street, as LL don't profit from removed listings.  Further, the longer this goes on, the more work LL will have to make restitution and review all those flagged listings.  I do hope they look at this situation sooner rather than later!!!

YOU NEVER KNOW WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO!
Resident
souljah Lefevre
Posts: 2

Re: Marketplace flagging system is being abuse to remove competition

Reply to Veronika Garzo - view message

I can assure you this is factual and its hitting a lot of creators pockets and trade over all and we appreciate your voting and considered thoughts.

Relm Foxdale
Posts: 409
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Registered: ‎04-23-2010

Re: Marketplace flagging system is being abuse to remove competition

Reply to Bogas Delicioso - view message

I start my post like I've started others: When the hell are they going to fix the cookies on this stupid forum?

Second, I think Brooke said they were going to be dealing with all this one day, like blacklisting abusers. But...has it happened? I'm guessing no.

Ha ha, remember when they implemented the new ratings? And didn't tell anyone except via a thread in the old forum that few people saw? And then turned around and allowed ratings to be flagged soon afterwards, even though very few merchants even knew this change was happening and had been able to go in and fix their listings? It's like they're toying with us, like we're their playthings...

Member
Ai Velde
Posts: 273

Re: Marketplace flagging system is being abuse to remove competition

Reply to Bogas Delicioso - view message

Well, according to Linden Lab, this sort of thing isn't happening. Sure, us merchants SEE it happening, COMPLAIN about it, but Linden Lab covers their ears and goes LALALALA DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

 

 


Porky Gorky wrote:

 

My previous post is based on what Dakota Linden told us last month in this thread here

http://blogs.secondlife.com/thread/54992?start=15&tstart=0

Dakota stated the following in a response to a post from Mickey Vandeverre. Mickey, like myself doesn't think it's our job to flag listings. Here is what Dakota Linden Said

"Hello Mickey,

Why shouldn't you be allowed to flag a listing for the Product Listing Review Team to look at?

And yes, if you are willing to accept other breaking the rules, then you are part of the problem.

It isn't necessary for the person flagging the item to know what the correct category should be.  That is why resident do not have the power to unlist any item from the Marketplace.  They only have the power to flag a listing for review.

If they flag a listing, they must choose from the options why they are flagging it.

If the Product Lisitng Review team doesn't agree, then nothing happens to the listing. But if any resident is viewing a category on the Marketplace and sees that an item isn't flagged as Adult Content but has nudity in it, then they should flag the listing so that it can be addressed.

Same with Category Selection.  If you see something in the main Home & Garden category and it is bed, and you now that there is a furniture category, and a bedoorm sub-category to the furniture category, and you do nothing, then yes, you are contibuting to the problem by not flagging it." (sic)

 



 

So apparently they have a mythical "Product Listing Review" team that is pulling your items. Thus, according to LL, abuse of the flagging system DOES NOT EXIST LALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALA. (:

Phil Deakins
Posts: 6,128
Topics: 97
Registered: ‎03-26-2009

Re: Marketplace flagging system is being abuse to remove competition

[ Edited ]

Reply to Ai Velde - view message

Having read the messages in this thread, including the Dakota Linden quote, it strikes me that there isn't a problem. From what I understand, flagging an item is merely pointing out to LL that you think there's a problem with the item, but it doesn't change the item's listing or anything like that. It's like saying to LL, "Please have a look at this item because I think it's in the wrong place." or something like that. If that's all it is, it seems like a very good system to me.

 

ETA:

I've just read a post in another thread and, if I've understood corerectly, flagging an item causes it to be removed, at least until it's been reviewed. If that's the case, then it's as bad a system as I've ever heard of, especially since LL is known for huge delays in dealing with things. But, in the quote above, Dakota Linden says that an item isn't removed when it's flagged, so I'm confused.

Member
Josh Susanto
Posts: 2,612

Re: Marketplace flagging system is being abuse to remove competition

Reply to Phil Deakins - view message

The most important thing is just to stand up to the flaggers.

One thing that has worked in my case has been to remove all keywords and put a message in the item description daring my competitors to flag it again for keywords, knowing both that there are no keywords and that the spurious flag will be immediately reported to LL.

People who compete by flagging are not, by nature, industrious. If you make it extra mental effort for them to figure out how to keep getting away with it, they'll either start leaving you alone, or they'll be invited to do so by LL later on.

Advisor
Suella Ember
Posts: 4,412

Re: Marketplace flagging system is being abuse to remove competition

Reply to Phil Deakins - view message

 


Phil Deakins wrote:

Having read the messages in this thread, including the Dakota Linden quote, it strikes me that there isn't a problem. From what I understand, flagging an item is merely pointing out to LL that you think there's a problem with the item, but it doesn't change the item's listing or anything like that. It's like saying to LL, "Please have a look at this item because I think it's in the wrong place." or something like that. If that's all it is, it seems like a very good system to me.


 

You are correct. Various LL staffers have stated this a number of times. When an item is flagged it is not automatically delisted. It goes to a queue for an LL staff member to check and either delist or ignore the flag if it was an incorrect flag. More to the point, Brodesky Linden once stated that if a person continually flags items incorrectly, their flags will get a lower prioirty and eventually get ignored completely. So, assuming that is true, their is no way to abuse the flagging system.

Of course, some may claim the Lab are lying about this. I'll chose to believe them though as they have no reason to make such a thing up and I've personally yet to see evidence to the contrary, or evidence of widespread 'greifer flgging'. I'm not saying some people don't attempt to 'griefer flag' because I'm sure they do! I've yet to see any real evidence of it personally though.  Which either means I'm lucky and no-one is deliberatly making false flags against my items (and the items of a few close friends whose word I trust and have not had any problems either) or it means if my items are being flagged, the above is true and LL are checking them, seeing they are ok and ignoring the flag.

One big one to check if you get an item delisted is the category it's listed in. Be very careful of listing items in top-level categories as they tend to get delisted if there is a more relevant sub category they should be in. This was commented on a few times a while ago and I think it was Dakota who confirmed that we should avoid listing in top-level categories wherever possible. 

Posts: 4,818
Topics: 75
Registered: ‎09-26-2009

Re: Marketplace flagging system is being abuse to remove competition

[ Edited ]

Reply to Suella Ember - view message

@Suella - There is an excellent way that all controversy could be eliminated. When an item is delisted, the "Flagging Review Team" member that delists it could send an email to the Merchant with a canned reason for the action and more canned text stating how to remedy the most common errors that cause that type of delisting. Not only would it prove that a human did it but it would let the merchant KNOW FOR A FACT why their product was delisted and how to fix it.

(And btw .. this isn't aimed AT you per se .. but your post did give me an excellent hook to hang this all too oft-repeated suggestion .. yet again.)

Veronika Garzo
Posts: 24
Topics: 1
Blog Posts: 0
Registered: ‎10-05-2009

Re: Marketplace flagging system is being abuse to remove competition

Reply to Darrius Gothly - view message

I am inclined to agree with the previous comment on this issue. It is lack of communication that is the biggest issue here. Merchants have a right to know why an item has been removed and thus, given an opportunity to correct the listing or to comment further if there is an accusation of infringement. It seems counter-productive to just remove an item without explanation. I still wish to know for sure if it is LL themselves that remove the item or if the situation is triggered by a number of flags. It seems to me, that LL might consider employing staff in sufficient numbers with knowledge of the regulations, rather than relying on their customer base to do their vetting work for them!! CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP!!!!!!!
YOU NEVER KNOW WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO!