Marketplace Question: What Is A Duplicate Item?

[Codex Alpha]

I recently got taught a hard lesson about changing permissions on a recent marketplace item of mine, that was removed forever because of changing the listing, and apparently breaking the TOS. Didnt think I was, but oh well lesson learned.

Better now than doing it with mulltiple items.

Anyway.

I release a chair with no copy/ no mod (perhaps it is a royal throne, there can only be one). This chair exists on the MP for $199L.

Public demand or many reviews later, it seems the market wants this chair to be copy/mod for resizing, etc.

Do I change the existing chair's permission (which I did with my item, but was banned), or do I have to create a new listing for a 'new item" of chair, but now with copy/mod?

NOt sure what the hell is going on in this department, to be honest, seeking some more experienced advice as to what to do if you need to change permissions, details or scripts in eg. Royal Throne, but dont want to be hit with a 'Relisting" infraction from TOS.

[Pamela Galli]

I may not understand what you are asking. You use the drop down menu to find the new associated item, which you have said you already have used. It may or may not have a different name from the one it is replacing.

I have many products I have updated dozens of times; hardly a day goes by I dont upload an update.

 

BTW you can deactivate a listing then reactivate it -- since that does not affect reviews or sales data.

[Sassy Romano]

Changing the permissions of an existing listing is fine. Listing two identical items but with different permissions has to be permitted since there's no dynamic way to sell alternate permissions otherwise.

 

If they claim that to be the same product then by the same logic, so would items that differ only by color.

 

Until marketplace permits variants under the same single listing them there is no other way. I would list both and have each refer to the other as a related item.

[Codex Alpha]

Just making sure because I got a few items removed from the marketplace for 'relisting' that I understood were updates, or perhaps I had changed the listing too much.

In this example it was a set of two lamps,but they had nocopy/nomod.

I had a few requests to make them at least copy permissions.

So I updated the listing to have one item of the lamp (instead of the set), but make it copy/mod.

This listing was then considered a 'relist' and removed.

I may have been in error for this because the original listing was a set and the new a single/copy... and I can see in hindsight how that might seem like misrepresentation (though I updated the ad), since the object became different

(a single item vs a set in a box).

A mistake, but good to have happen early... but this is stuff not directly found in the MP guides.

 

[Codex Alpha]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

Changing the permissions of an existing listing is fine. Listing two identical items but with different permissions has to be permitted since there's no dynamic way to sell alternate permissions otherwise.

 

If they claim that to be the same product then by the same logic, so would items that differ only by color.

 

Until marketplace permits variants under the same single listing them there is no other way. I would list both and have each refer to the other as a related item.

---

 

So you're saying if I had the set/no copy, but wanted to sell a single with copy perms (and have relative prices based on use), better to make a new listing? In my case, it's probably what i shuld have done, since it could have been considered misrepresentation (changing the listing's item so much) I dunno,justwant tobe clear before i touch any existing items.

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

I may not understand what you are asking. You use the drop down menu to find the new associated item, which you have said you already have used. It may or may not have a different name from the one it is replacing.

I have many products I have updated dozens of times; hardly a day goes by I dont upload an update.

 

BTW you can deactivate a listing then reactivate it -- since that does not affect reviews or sales data.

---

I"m just not sure why I had an item removed from the MP doing exactly that, except maybe only have 1 item/copy vs the old setof2/nocopy.

[Tari Landar]

If you don't mind my asking, what was the message you got with the removal? 

I am asking, because sometimes those messages are extremely generic and don't actually give you the real, specific, reason. For instance, a lot of them will say "disallowed listing practices", but not go into the specifics of which disallowed listing practice. Things like keyword spam, duplicate listings, relisting an item after removing it(typically this does happen when a merchant gets a bad review..or more) all of those, and others as well, fall under the disallowed listing practices umbrella. LL has a bad habit of not being specific in their responses and warnings given.   It very well may not be the re-listing of your item that caused it to get removed. It may in fact be a coincidence that the item was relisted(for whatever reason, I'm not judging, so please don't think that). Also, you should know that, many times, things are removed for seemingly no reason at all, or a false reason, and LL isn't likely to help you if you ask why. It's asinine, and we all know it, but the folks in charge of the MP and doing such work are clearly working with one shared brain cell, at times. So we're kinda stuck with their crappy practices. I don't think you even want tog et anyone here into that kind of conversation, but there are LOTS of threads about things that have been removed for either no reason at all, or wrongfully removed because they weren't actually violations.

As for your question, you can actually change listings, if you need to update, or change something. Personally, when I do this, I also change the item's name, although my primary reason for doing that is so I can find it in the dropdown when adding the specific item to my listing and to set the old version apart from the new version in my inventory too. I include that it has been revised, and include information about the revision. I don't remove the listing entirely, I just disable it while I am making changes and then enable it again when I am finished. I don't think I have any of those items still in my store right now, but I have several items that are not currently active, because they're awaiting a revision.

If you want to sell an item as no copy and no mod, but also want to sell a no mod but copy(or whatever) version, you can have two listings. You just have to make sure the listing title and the items, are clearly two different things. Even if, in essence, they are the same product, just with different permissions. Be very specific in your listing about which is which. Even though we include the permissions when we create the listing, some people, for whatever reason, don't read them. So having it in your product description as well, may help.

[Sassy Romano]

I see no harm in listing the same item but with different permissions. There is no other way to offer that. If LL consider that a duplicate, challenge it on the basis I gave and create a JIRA starting that what they appear to ask is not possible under the existing system.

 

You have choices but it depends on how combative you wish to be. I'm pretty tired of having to do it over simple things, over and over again.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Tari Landar wrote:

<snip>

You just have to make sure the listing title and the items, are clearly two different things. Even if, in essence, they are the same product, just with different permissions. Be very specific in your listing about which is which. Even though we include the permissions when we create the listing, some people, for whatever reason, don't read them. So having it in your product description as well, may help.

---

Lord knows how many items get flagged everyday and someone (supposedly) reviews these.

And sometimes it can really seem ridiculously insane.  Sometimes these items that are actually worth only a nickle or a dime.  If I was someone reviewing items and couldn't at a glance decipher the difference I'd probably be prone to rubber stamp the flagging.

I'm not saying rubber stamping is right or that I'd actually do it, just how I'd feel about it.

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Tari Landar wrote:

<snip>

You just have to make sure the listing title and the items, are clearly two different things. Even if, in essence, they are the same product, just with different permissions. Be very specific in your listing about which is which. Even though we include the permissions when we create the listing, some people, for whatever reason, don't read them. So having it in your product description as well, may help.

---

Lord knows how many items get flagged everyday and someone (supposedly) reviews these.

And sometimes it can really seem ridiculously insane.  Sometimes these items that are actually worth only a nickle or a dime.  If I was someone reviewing items and couldn't at a glance decipher the difference I'd probably be prone to rubber stamp the flagging.

I'm not saying rubber stamping is right or that I'd actually do it, just how I'd feel about it.

 

---

You make it sound as if LL has offered those who moderate this forum an opportunity to make a bit of money on the side, dealing with MP flags.

...Dres

[Perrie Juran]

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Tari Landar wrote:

<snip>

You just have to make sure the listing title and the items, are clearly two different things. Even if, in essence, they are the same product, just with different permissions. Be very specific in your listing about which is which. Even though we include the permissions when we create the listing, some people, for whatever reason, don't read them. So having it in your product description as well, may help.

---

Lord knows how many items get flagged everyday and someone (supposedly) reviews these.

And sometimes it can really seem ridiculously insane.  Sometimes these items that are actually worth only a nickle or a dime.  If I was someone reviewing items and couldn't at a glance decipher the difference I'd probably be prone to rubber stamp the flagging.

I'm not saying rubber stamping is right or that I'd actually do it, just how I'd feel about it.

 

---

You make it sound as if LL has offered those who moderate this forum an opportunity to make a bit of money on the side, dealing with MP flags.

...Dres

---

This is Linden Lab we are talking about. 

[Codex Alpha]

---

Tari Landar wrote:

If you don't mind my asking, what was the message you got with the removal? 

I am asking, because sometimes those messages are extremely generic and don't actually give you the real, specific, reason. For instance, a lot of them will say "disallowed listing practices", but not go into the specifics of which disallowed listing practice. Things like keyword spam, duplicate listings, relisting an item after removing it(typically this does happen when a merchant gets a bad review..or more) all of those, and others as well, fall under the disallowed listing practices umbrella. LL has a bad habit of not being specific in their responses and warnings given.   It very well may not be the re-listing of your item that caused it to get removed. It may in fact be a coincidence that the item was relisted(for whatever reason, I'm not judging, so please don't think that). Also, you should know that, many times, things are removed for seemingly no reason at all, or a false reason, and LL isn't likely to help you if you ask why. It's asinine, and we all know it, but the folks in charge of the MP and doing such work are clearly working with one shared brain cell, at times. So we're kinda stuck with their crappy practices. I don't think you even want tog et anyone here into that kind of conversation, but there are LOTS of threads about things that have been removed for either no reason at all, or wrongfully removed because they weren't actually violations.

As for your question, you can actually change listings, if you need to update, or change something. Personally, when I do this, I also change the item's name, although my primary reason for doing that is so I can find it in the dropdown when adding the specific item to my listing and to set the old version apart from the new version in my inventory too. I include that it has been revised, and include information about the revision. I don't remove the listing entirely, I just disable it while I am making changes and then enable it again when I am finished. I don't think I have any of those items still in my store right now, but I have several items that are not currently active, because they're awaiting a revision.

If you want to sell an item as no copy and no mod, but also want to sell a no mod but copy(or whatever) version, you can have two listings. You just have to make sure the listing title and the items, are clearly two different things. Even if, in essence, they are the same product, just with different permissions. Be very specific in your listing about which is which. Even though we include the permissions when we create the listing, some people, for whatever reason, don't read them. So having it in your product description as well, may help.

---

First off, just for the record, I've never removed a product because of a review. I HAVE though, unknowingly broken the apperent TOS by deleting and relisting an item (before realizing I could update the product in Magic Box).

A popular, well-reviewed 'tech' table has now been disabled because in the past I deleted an old listing and created a new one (with an updated script). It was up for months with no issue until I recent rant thread I created turned the spotlight on my store.

The message is " Disallowed Listing Practices-Item Was Disabled and Relisted.".

I must have pissed off a secret LL Shill poster in another topic, for my store was poured over with a fine tooth comb short ly after and even a simple new listing disabled due to 'keyword spam".

A similar 'hanging light' was disabled because I deleted and relisted the item to update permissions as well, once again before knowing how to update through MagicBox.

From the discussion in my rant thread, I gave the magicbox instructions an intensive re-read and learned how to do it properly.

This time, however, 3 items were disabled under the message "Disallowed Listing Practices-Item Was Disabled and Relisted.", though none of the products were disabled and relisted (but were updated through magic box). It is possible, however, that I had deleted and relisted these 'lamps' months ago when I was stilll learning and unknowingly breaking their strange TOS.

So this leads to my question... if I change the actual product in the listing (from a box set of 2 lamps nocopy TO single lamp with copy/mod) would this also trigger a relist? This is the last thing I did.

I understand the protections that are in place so people cant get ripped off, but I also think they're overly-restrictive to creators who might have various reasons as to why they have disabled/deleted/relisted an object and it has nothing to do with dishonesty.

So I created this topic to ensure my 'updates' count , or maybe i cant update certain items, depending on the contents of the original listing  eg. Box of 2 items, changed to no box 1-item.

 

Set of 2 lamps, packaged in a box. No mod, no copy.

Changed to 1 lamp object with copy/mod permission (no need for a box or a set)

Is this a bad listing practice? (it might be if someone bought a set for nocopy, then suddently it is single with copy)

I'll have to take LL's decision and my lumps for now (better now than later), I just want to know how to deal with an object like this, or just make a new listing.