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Registered: ‎06-16-2009

Re: Link for full economic statistics?

Reply to Toysoldier Thor - view message

I don't think you're getting what I'm trying to say simply.  Try reading again.

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Toysoldier Thor
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Re: Link for full economic statistics?

Reply to Mickey Vandeverre - view message

You were an excellent straightavatar for my point.   Thanks

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Registered: ‎05-07-2010

Re: Link for full economic statistics?

Reply to Toysoldier Thor - view message


Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Ralph,

I do agree that a major factor of what is eroding inworld Grid activity and inspiring several SL Grid customers to strongly consider and actually execute on a strategy of moving more or all of their activities to other open grids like IW is the high cost of SL Teir for sims. 

If land costs were much lower and prim counts per sim much higher (i.e. look at the monthly costs and prim counts on IW vs SL), then this would likely stimulate a significant resurance of inworld activity.  I am very comfortable is saying that if LL has lost teirs for 655 sims in the past year (due to customers closing or abandoning sims) its mostly due to the cost of maintaining them not being worth it anymore AND/OR because they could get an equivelent sim on a competing grid for a fraction the month costs with double the prim count.

The potential problem is (and I do not know this figure - only LL does) is that LL must charge a minimum fee per sim that is tied directly to the RL costs of operating the physical server it runs on as well as all the associated costs to operate that server in their DC.  If they could lower this cost and pass the savings to the customers by way of reduced teir costs then LL could do a lot to stem the flow of their customers migrating their activities to lower cost open grids.

If LL is reducing these per sim costs (i.e. more virtual sims per physical server, faster cheaper servers, etc) and not at least passing down a portion of these savings to the customer (i.e. LL is being blindly greedy) then they are consciously ignoring their competition and causing their own demise as the SL Grid erodes in use.

If LL has done everything possible to reduce per sim costs and their teirs reflect a near break-even pricing, then LL is in deep trouble since that means they are not running a competitive product to their growing competition that can operate their sims at much lower costs and in turn offer sims to us customers at much lower teir pricing.

I think its more option #1... LL is ignoring that they have competition and does not want to pass on any of their cost savings to their customers and basically they are Fiddling as Rome burns.


I have been looking at InWorldz the past few days myself, Toy.  Imagine my surprise when I saw:  $75 USD per month tier for a full sim with 45,000 prims (with a $75 USD set-up fee), prims to 128 x 128 x 128, free uploads!  Now THAT is something that people could afford!  $295 tier ($1,000 set up fee), 15,000 prims, 64 x 64 x 64 max size and $10L for each item you upload...yeah...there is no way I could afford all that. 

My problem with IW comes in when I look at their total number of people logged in at any one time.  Yesterday, the max number I saw online was 183.  Right this moment, there are 105 online.  I would love to have my own sim and build a great experience on it!  I could do a LOT with 45,000 prims!  But would I just have this wonderful sim all to myself? 

I am in complete agreement that the Lab seriously needs to re-evaluate their tier structure.  Get things in line with their competition.  I just hope they get a clue sooner than later.

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Toysoldier Thor
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Re: Link for full economic statistics?

Reply to Marcus Hancroft - view message

Yupper... competing opensims like IW do offer much much more cost effective Sim Teirs with much larger prim counts and they have always had scalable prims (contrary to what SL finally started offering a month ago).

But that is the biggest limitation with the competing grids....they still are far smaller in size to the SL grid.  So they all struggle at this time for reach / maintain critical mass to attract much larger movements of populations from SL. 

i.e. of actual examples I know of since am a resident and sculpty maps merchant in IW as well as SL...  A friend wanted to leverage the far lower sim costs to open a Karaoke / Live singing club.  She is a popular singer in SL and hoped she could generate a cool leading Karaoke club in IW by using her popularity and followers in SL.

After a couple months of tryng to get IW and transitioned SL residents... she gave up as there wasnt enough of a critical mass of online IW residents that wanted to attend.

Right now - a lot of the IW and other open sims are Niche grids for those that want either privacy, and/or a much lower cost place to build, or to have a beautiful sim to live on and that have little dependence on the grid's population size.  For those SL creators / merchants that have building input materials or clothing, its relatively little effort to move your content over to these grids and set up a satelite shop to generate a bit of extra $ income.  I have done it for a year now and i barely log into IW and it just generate about 5% of my total virtual sales.  So for near-zero effort to maintain, it was a good investment to diversify.

Just some thoughts.

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Kylie Jaxxon
Posts: 2,835
Registered: ‎09-09-2009

Re: Link for full economic statistics?

Reply to Toysoldier Thor - view message


Toysoldier Thor wrote: For those SL creators / merchants that have building input materials or clothing, its relatively little effort to move your content over to these grids and set up a satelite shop to generate a bit of extra $ income.  I have done it for a year now and i barely log into IW and it just generate about 5% of my total virtual sales.  So for near-zero effort to maintain, it was a good investment to diversify.

Just some thoughts.


I wish more would do this.  That's what holds me back from participating there.  It's been a year for me since I logged on at IW...my problem is that I don't create or build.  There wasn't anywhere near enough content for me to choose from to furnish/landscape my land...which is what I'm most interested in.  If there was the selection that SL offers, I would over there in a flash with my own region :smileysad:

Come visit The Trace...we change with the seasons :smileyhappy:

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/The%20Trace/19/83/21
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Toysoldier Thor
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Re: Link for full economic statistics?

Reply to Kylie Jaxxon - view message


Kylie Jaxxon wrote:

Toysoldier Thor wrote: For those SL creators / merchants that have building input materials or clothing, its relatively little effort to move your content over to these grids and set up a satelite shop to generate a bit of extra $ income.  I have done it for a year now and i barely log into IW and it just generate about 5% of my total virtual sales.  So for near-zero effort to maintain, it was a good investment to diversify.

Just some thoughts.


I wish more would do this.  That's what holds me back from participating there.  It's been a year for me since I logged on at IW...my problem is that I don't create or build.  There wasn't anywhere near enough content for me to choose from to furnish/landscape my land...which is what I'm most interested in.  If there was the selection that SL offers, I would over there in a flash with my own region :smileysad:


The reason I made the decision last October to move all my sculpty packs to IW was because of receiving several requests from my customers and potential customers to either allow them to buy & transfer my packs to IW OR that I set up a store there to offer my packs to their build community.  Since my policy on my sculpty packs is clear that customers cannot take my maps off the SL grid, I had no choice but to take about a week and export my packs to IW.  My customers demanded it enough that I felt there was enough demand for added revenue.

The nice thing was that I was even given free & substantially reduced store rental offerings for moving my content there.

I am surprised that many other merchants dont take the effort to offer their stuff within a grid that is starved for quality build, furnishings, clothing content.  But its good for me as I have less competition there. :smileyhappy:

As for the size of the competing grid to SL, I think if the competing OpenSim grids would get together and meet (like all the crime bosses did to divvy up a city) and agree to merge all their grids into one larger grid, there would be a much greater chance for a competing grid to SL to evolve that would benefit them, us merchants, and even LL in that they would likely be forced to acknowledge that they have serious competition and change their current culture of NO CUSTOMER SERVICE.

But I am just wishing as I could never see these grids agree on something like that.

 

 

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Posts: 1,396
Registered: ‎09-17-2009

Re: Link for full economic statistics?

Reply to Kylie Jaxxon - view message

I tried IW and found that the server was so many versions behind that some of my scripts didn't work. That was about a year ago, so maybe it's changed now, but it felt pretty much like going back in time. It was also very empty. I didn't log in more than a few times.

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Posts: 1,396
Registered: ‎09-17-2009

Re: Link for full economic statistics?

Reply to Ziggy21 Slade - view message


Ziggy21 Slade wrote:
what is your excuse for your constant negative spin?


I've been trying to figure that out for some time myself. This kind of negativity is not good for SL, and if I were a newcomer and saw these accusations on the forums I would hesitate to participate at all. Why would I put in time and energy if it is so terrible and apt to fall apart any minute? And if all these complaints are true then why would I even want to join? And if all the people in SL are this negative and accusatory, then why would I want to socialize with them? I'd walk away without a second glance, and I would have missed one of the coolest things I've ever discovered.

Fortunately I was in SL for a couple of years before these forums were set up, and I didn't know things were so terrible. In fact, I liked it a lot. I'm glad I never saw this kind of thing during my early years, and I hope our new people don't see it either.

Thanks for your comments.

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Toysoldier Thor
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Re: Link for full economic statistics?

Reply to Paladin Pinion - view message

and who do you think ... or how many of the 100's of thousands of SL residents came onto SL AFTER reading SL forums?

Let me guess a percent for you....  0%

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Registered: ‎04-16-2009

Re: Link for full economic statistics?

[ Edited ]

Reply to Ceera Murakami - view message

I was looking for the same figures. I found some usefull stats here

Most recent stats are from 2010, but it gives at least a rough image of the situation.

 

What do Second Life businesses earn per month?

 

 

2007

2010

Less then 10 usd

54,37 %

56,7 %

10 – 50 usd

27,1%

26,81 %

50 – 100 usd

6,33 %

12,43 %

100 – 200 usd

4,79 %

3,97 %

200 – 500 usd

 3,96 %

3,63 %

500 - 1000 usd

1,51 %

1,61 %

1000 – 2000 usd

0,99 %

0,84 %

2000 – 5000 usd

0,64 %

0,54 %

 More then 5000 usd

0,31 %

0,3%

2007: total 42.597 businesses

2010: total 64.651 businesses

 

What do people that participate in the economy spend per month?

1 – 500 L$

 39 %

500 – 2.000 L$

18,4 %

2.000 - 5.000 L$

12,43 %

5.000 - 10.000 L$

9,31 %

10.000 - 50.000 L$

15,41 %

50.000 – 100.000 L$

3,01 %

100.000 – 500.000 L$

2,02%

500.000 – 1.000.000 L$

0,21%

More then 1.000.000 L$

0,22 %