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LL is DONE with Marketplace

Pamela Galli

By Pamela Galli,
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Pamela Galli

Pamela Galli

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Pamela Galli wrote:

For the benefit of those making suggestions how to improve/fix the marketplace:

There is no evidence anyone working at LL is thinking about the marketplace. They are done with it.

And this inside info is coming from?

"There is no evidence" = I dont see any. Do you? Does anyone?

 

Yet ppl keep making helpful suggestions and bug reports thinking someone is busily working away on MP issues. 

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Perrie Juran

Perrie Juran

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Ohjiro Watanabe wrote:

If you have a problem or suggestion about the marketplace you should create a jira at
It is easy to do and you can follow the progress to see if it is being worked on.

If you already did that you could post a link to it and maybe others could back you up by making comments on your jira.

You're joking?  Right?

Seriously.

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Perrie Juran

Perrie Juran

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popcorn.jpg

Min Barzane wrote:

And a nother "SKY IS FALLING" thread   /me takes popcorns and sits back

We finished this while waiting for LL to fix some of the most often raised problems or features.

Maybe they are waiting for Xmas to surprise us.

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Ohjiro Watanabe

Ohjiro Watanabe

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Ha Ha, Well, I understand why you say that but things are changing down at the Lab. If you go to http://jira.secondlife.com

and then go up to the top right corner to easy search you type in marketplace. There are loads of jira on the subject and if you look at some of the open ones there are Lindens engaging with people and getting things sorted out.

Weird, I know.

Also if you go to http://status.secondlifegrid.net and search for marketplace you will find that there is maintenance being done.

So that is two examples of evidence that LL is doing something about the marketplace issues.

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Pamela Galli

Pamela Galli

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I thought, oh, good maybe they are working on something, so I did as you suggest. Most of them were closed, but there were some about the recent decision to just make ALL listings Adult. However, there was 5806 from April, so I opened that. LOL.

 

My point stands.

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Butch Daddy

Butch Daddy

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I thought, oh, good maybe they are working on something, so I did as you suggest. Most of them were closed, but there were some about the recent decision to just make ALL listings Adult. However, there was 5806 from April, so I opened that. LOL.

 

My point stands.

And your point is invalid.  If the marketplace was abadonded then no fixes would have been made.  Just because suggestions that people have made are not being implemented doesn't mean stuff isn't getting done.  Until you have official words from someone at linden that the marketplace has been abandoned or is no longer being maintained, please just shut up.

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Pamela Galli

Pamela Galli

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Jacob Cagney wrote:

Pamela Galli wrote:

I thought, oh, good maybe they are working on something, so I did as you suggest. Most of them were closed, but there were some about the recent decision to just make ALL listings Adult. However, there was 5806 from April, so I opened that. LOL.

 

My point stands.

And your point is invalid.  If the marketplace was abadonded then no fixes would have been made.  Just because suggestions that people have made are not being implemented doesn't mean stuff isn't getting done.  Until you have official words from someone at linden that the marketplace has been abandoned or is no longer being maintained, please just shut up.

No you.

 

Unlike you, I am not a casual user of the marketplace, or a user of the customer end of it only.

I have been supporting my family with my SL business for five years; I daily monitor this forum and others for ANY developments that would affect my livlihood. Any tiny developments or breakage or fixes, in either the customer or merchant ends, I NOTICE.  

 

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Sassy Romano

Sassy Romano

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Not that merchants need to be doing any infighting due to the lack of work on MP, Pamela isn't referring to "new pet features that people want", how about just doing what needs to be done?

I'll help by giving some examples of some recent things that happened to Marketplace:-

LL broke the adult keywords, we didn't ask for this, it was working fine, LL BROKE IT!

Here's the JIRA, a showstopper, it's STILL being worked on... or NOT.  https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-6608

So, someone in LL changed the list of keywords, they must have done that because a working system is highly unlikely to just randomly reclassify listings.  Since LL will have a changelog of what was changed, they would only have to revert the change to fix the issue.  This issue is now 6 weeks old and it has affected merchants significantly.  It's not even safe to change a listing back manually is it?  We just don't know.  This isn't a single persons pet problem, this is the latest show stopper that LL have inflicted and yet appear to be doing nothing about, seriously, it's not a difficult fix to revert a change and then go back and re-think.  Ergo, it's reasonable to take this as evidence that they aren't actively working on it.

Next example.

Direct Delivery.  Do you remember why this was so critical?  We were told because Magic Boxes couldn't support the traffic but...they worked fine with XStreet.  Now, LL tell us that there weren't as many purchases and that this was the reason.  However, after some reasoned analysis from merchants, more adept at databases, systems architecture and a bit of intuition, it came about that it's because the system that LL used to implement MP is single threaded, so they introduced a bottleneck.  Then they introduced some sort of overnight batch job which seriously hit delivery times for European merchants and lo' it was decided that Direct Delivery was THE MOST IMPORTANT PROJECT for the Marketplace.

Direct Delivery took over a year to implement and yet it's still not finished.  Where's the support for "no copy" (limited permissions) items?  It doesn't exist.  Deadlines were shifted and then now, it's an indefinite extension to continue using the Magic Boxes that LL were so adament needed replacing.  Why is no work on this being done?

Direct Delivery phase 2.  I was on the beta programme for this, it just went away.  poofed.  gone.  Why is this?  This was an LL instigated project but no more.

The only thing that LL has done with MP recently to introduce change, let see.  Screwed around with reporting and transactions (that nobody asked for) and done dumb stuff around introducing some new fields that are so badly implemented that they shouldn't consider it finished but this was done in consultation with some tiny secret group of merchants who clearly had a stake in this but were so close to the issue that they failed to see the bigger picture and didn't consider proper use cases.

No, really.  Pamela isn't wrong, LL offer little evidence that they are actively doing anything to improve marketplace.  There's some really really low hanging fruit but they're oblivous to the need to pick it or don't have the resources.

I'll offer the opposite challenge.  Find me 10 things that LL have introduced that have radically improved the Marketplace over say the past year.  You can even go back two years or just make it 5 things over one year.  I believe that you'll struggle to do this.  Fixing their own fresh  bugs doesn't really count, just find things they've addressed from merchants, or introduced of their own initiative.

Personally, I feel that would be a struggle to illustrate.

(In fact, one could say that the whole of SL is likely on a skeleton staff who are operating in little more than maintenance mode.  LL have their focus on that new platform off in the distance, they're really not going to be spending too much resource introducing much new stuff here.)

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Pamela Galli

Pamela Galli

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Thank you Sassy. I know you could make a much longer list of the "low hanging fruit" that sits rotting on the vine.

 

I do not thiink even the new transaction page -- as botched as its introduction was  -- qualifies as working on Marketplace per se.  It would, if the name of the item purchased showed, but noooooo.

 

ETA:  LL employees do read this forum. I invite any of them to prove me wrong and post whatever Top Secret marketplace work they are doing.

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Perrie Juran

Perrie Juran

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Jacob Cagney wrote:

Pamela Galli wrote:

I thought, oh, good maybe they are working on something, so I did as you suggest. Most of them were closed, but there were some about the recent decision to just make ALL listings Adult. However, there was 5806 from April, so I opened that. LOL.

 

My point stands.

And your point is invalid.  If the marketplace was abadonded then no fixes would have been made.  Just because suggestions that people have made are not being implemented doesn't mean stuff isn't getting done.  Until you have official words from someone at linden that the marketplace has been abandoned or is no longer being maintained, please just shut up.

The fixes / maintenances that are made are more like being in SURVIVAL MODE.

Heck, the time it takes for me to log in and rez InWorld is often times faster than the response time for me to do a simple search query on the MP.  Or to phrase it the other way, most of the time, a search query on the MP can take longer than logging InWorld. 

Granted it has improved since Ebbe took the helm, but it's still ridiculous.  And I'd still consider that SURVIVAL MODE.  Because the number of people who abandon a shopping session must be insane.  I myself just abandonned a shopping session a few minutes ago.

Oh, but I know, it had to be when they were trying to fix some of the ridiculous words that trigger an Adult Rating that caused all the recent troubles with the MP and caused the need for all the current maintenance.

So let's get real here.

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Ohjiro Watanabe

Ohjiro Watanabe

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I'm not sure what your point was it seemed more like a broad generality than a point. Anyway my point also stands. Which, if I didn't make it clear is: you are complaining about something that LL is/isn't doing in a forum which is going to change nothing.

But you don't have a jira open yourself on any issue. So, go make a jira, think it out so that you make a clear and concise point about a problem that exists that is a problem to you now.

You can't make a valid complaint about LL not doing something to solve a problem if you refuse to use the problem solving channel that is open to you to use.

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Ohjiro Watanabe

Ohjiro Watanabe

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Again you complain on the forums but don't open any jira yourself. Lindens don't read the forums they read the jira. Residents read the forums, so what is the point in your post? In essence this just sows discord by contriubiting to an argument that upsets people and provoks readers into an emotional response.

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Ashasekayi Ra

Ashasekayi Ra

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Actually, Lindens do skim the forums. Lindens have admitted that during inworld meetings that I have attended before.

I would agree that JIRAs are more effective though. These sorts of posts are background noise to the Lab at this point. They have their set plans already and that's what they concentrate on. As has already been stated, there have been useful MP improvement suggestions that practically every merchant has wanted listed on the JIRA for ages. The Lab hasn't worked on them for whatever reason.

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Pamela Galli

Pamela Galli

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I have filed 26 JIRAS since 2011, 15 of which had to do with Marketplace,  and I have Voted / Watched many, many more JIRAS -- and there is no point in me filing duplicate ones on every marketplace related JIRA. If there was, I would. 

 

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Stunned/m-p/1661335/highlight/true#M26973

I am the one who said to Ebbe in the GD forum, when he declared his intention to create more communication and transparency, Okay then how about starting with opening up JIRAS again? http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Hello-from-Linden-Lab-s-New-CEO/td-p/2499571/highlight/true/page/6

(And voila, he did.) So I do not need to be told about the value of JIRAS. What I am saying is that they sit there, ignored. 

 

 

 

A year or two ago they asked merchants do do a survey about improving search relevance. Since then there has not been a single word about that hugely critical issue.  How about reducing the keyword field by half or less?  How about giving greater weight to words in the item title? How about not giving so much weight to things bought within the last 24 hrs? How about not giving equal weight to things that cost 1L and things that cost 1000L?  

 

As I say, this is my RL full time job. It is not a little hobby or a means of entertainment; it is how I support my family. There is NO ONE in SL who pays closer attention to the marketplace than I do. No one. 

So if you see evidence they are working on something, let's see it.

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Perrie Juran

Perrie Juran

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Ohjiro Watanabe wrote:

Again you complain on the forums but don't open any jira yourself. Lindens don't read the forums they read the jira. Residents read the forums, so what is the point in your post? In essence this just sows discord by contriubiting to an argument that upsets people and provoks readers into an emotional response.

Number one, saying that Linden's don't read these Forums is not true.

Now I really don't blame the Commerce team per se because my view is that many times their hands are tied by Mgt.

But let me explain my feelings here. 

When the MP opened and we were all learning it and discussing it here in the Forums I encountered something odd and brought it up along with screen shots.  It involved several hundred items.

A few minutes later one of the MP Team popped into the thread and said to me, "How come you haven't flagged these items?" 

Well first of all I had only just encountered the problem.  But me, like a fool went back and started flagging them.  You do realise how long it takes to flag things don't you?  Well after a few minutes I realised what a fool I was being.

You see, all that Team member needed to do was make a note to themself or the Team, "Here is a problem we need to check out."  It wouldn't have taken any longer than the time it took for them to tell me to "flag the items."

You see, JIRA or no JIRA, (although there were hundreds NO ONE BUT THE SUBMITTER could ever see because of the JIRA policies at the time), there is no way that they can be oblivious to the major issues that  confront both Merchants and Consumers daily.

And for the record, I regularly encourage people to file JIRA's when they encounter unsolveable problems.

But how many times do we need to keep reinventing the wheel?

What is so hard about LL stating what they are or aren't working on unless they are avoiding lieing to us.

Here is one of my JIRA's.  Try and tell me it isn't a good suggestion.  Sitting there ignored since last May.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-6115

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