HEY EBBE!!! Give Us Back Free Marketing on Forums!

[Medhue Simoni]

Back in the day, we were given a place on the forums to post products. It wasn't a huge impact on the market, but it was another place for residents to come and look for new exciting stuff. It was completely ridiculous what has happened to all this, most because of the change over to this forum format. On every single forums format we've had before, we had a place to post products. I would think that Ebbe being more into marketing, would be very open to the merchants using the forums again. There are ridiculously more benefits to it also. Forum posting also get seen in Google searches. We get more traffic in the forums. We get more engagement in the forums. We get more people teaching each other in the forums. We aren't just merchants. I think many of us are people that want to see everyone succed, not only ourselves.

What are the affects of not using your forums for what could easily be considered the biggest aspect of your world? This is really unknowable, but more about showing how ingorant the whole thought of it is. Another reason why the forum section was closed was obviously because LL was trying to push their broken advertising systems onto us, and didn't want us to have a free place to post items. Sure, that might have been fine, if those Advertising products actually functioned, and were more reasonably priced. The fact is, that none of LL advertising schemes work even down to functioning correctly. Why would anyone pay for those things? Evaluate them yourself, LL! So, we are basically left with NOTHING!

I've been focusing on other worlds and selling items through my website. I'm mentioning this to show just how ridicuous our SL situation is. I have a little website that I sell products through. I get almost no traffic currently, but it is building, and it is easy to see why. Everytime I post a new product on the website, within a couple of months, eventually I'll do a general search on google for any similar product, and mine will be on that front page, and I've checked this on other people's computers. Plus, it shows in my stats. So, this 1 little guy, with a little website, can some how, with almost no effort, other than posting the products, can be found on the world wide net, in a matter of months. But here, in our little tiny space on the net, it's almost impossible to find anything at all.

What I proposed is to first bring back our own space on the forums to post products. 2nd, I'd open that up with categories too, almost matching the Marketplace. I would then propose doing a little more work on your little social network, and adding a section for images posted there for Commercial purposes. I love our little social network, mostly because of all the people that are telling their SL stories through the images posted there. They would get annoyed if we all messed up those beautiful images with our marketing. Our social network should be for both social, and business, but in those 2 distinct categories so that people see and find what they want.

Beyond those few items, I'm hoping for better marketing systems in the other world being created.

[Pamela Galli]

Actually I would be happy if we could safely buy enhancements without being charged every hour on the hour.  I used to have 32 of those enhancements until I started being charged $100+ USD a day for them.  As we speak, I have a bunch of those enhancements that I cannot edit because they are stuck in "Editing" mode permanently.

 

Even better would be the kind of advertising opportunities they had on Xstreet / SL Exchange. SO much better than what the Marketplace offers. PLUS we had sales and views data so we could see exactly how well the ads were working!  Now, we really have no idea.

[Perrie Juran]

I'd be shocked if it didn't turn into a SPAM fest.

Cause you know if I was a Merchant I'd be listing every single new item I had. 

Also you don't know how well LL's advertising programs are working for the MP.  Only LL knows how many click through's there are and how often they result in purchases.  My personal opinion is that they have to be low.  But that's just my opinion.  But then you'd also need to compare them to how well other E Commerce sites do.  In the past month I've been to NewEgg over a dozen times thinking about some upgrades with out making a purchase.  I'd wonder what their sales to clicks ratio is.

No matter what past experience may be, in Todays SL it would just be a giant mess.

[Pamela Galli]

On SLE there was a feed, and if you saw something interesting you could click on it and go to the item in the SLE product forum.  The marketplace was not such a huge factor in those days.

I used to make a game of thinking up titles for my products that would make ppl curious enough to click on the feed title as it scrolled by --stuff like "Have you EVER seen anything like this before????" :-D

 

[Medhue Simoni]

I really don't care if it is a spam fest. Those take effort, and because they do take effort, nobody is going to keep doing it unless they see a huge reward. Plus, SL is not something that is new, and neither is posting products in the forums. Every single platform that sells 3D objects has a forum, and they all allow their merchants to post their products in the forums. Let me repeat, EVERY SINGLE PLATFORM, except SL. We are the enomally. Oh, and none of them are spam fests.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

 

Even better would be the kind of advertising opportunities they had on Xstreet / SL Exchange. SO much better than what the Marketplace offers. PLUS we had sales and views data so we could see exactly how well the ads were working!  Now, we really have no idea.

---

 

I still long for the Xstreet days.

[Perrie Juran]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

I really don't care if it is a spam fest. Those take effort, and because they do take effort, nobody is going to keep doing it unless they see a huge reward. Plus, SL is not something that is new, and neither is posting products in the forums. Every single platform that sells 3D objects has a forum, and they all allow their merchants to post their products in the forums. Let me repeat, EVERY SINGLE PLATFORM, except SL. We are the enomally. Oh, and none of them are spam fests.

---

I've no experience with Forums for other platforms, only with this one.  So my statements are based solely on what I see go on here.

I also understand how difficult it is for Merchants to get their products into the public eye.

So I could be wrong.  I'll admit, I don't know an alternative solution.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Perrie Juran wrote

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I've no experience with Forums for other platforms, only with this one.  So my statements are based solely on what I see go on here.

I also understand how difficult it is for Merchants to get their products into the public eye.

So I could be wrong.  I'll admit, I don't know an alternative solution.

---

Of course, the SL forums has always been unusually spammy, but this has more to do with software and programming than spamming actually being a problem in most forums. I'll refrain from expanding on this more. lol

As you probably know, I sell products on every platform that allows for it. But, being that I refuse to submit to their commission fees, I'm not actually allowed to post products on their forums. For those that do submit to the commissions, and sell products on the platform's marketplaces, they are very much encouraged to post their products in the forums. Although, someone was looking for zombie animations, and of course got the standard big time creators that everyone knows, so I posted mine. The mods did not remove it.

(tangent)My problem is that I see how the merchants help all of the platforms massively, and see the commissions and fees as restricting the market, and not helping it. If they limit their market, they are hurting themselves, because it will limit their growth. Plus, most of these other platforms require an approval process, which adds costs to the merchants, as time is money. 1 major thing that SL has really proven to me, is that this kind of approval process massively slows the rate at which the marketplace will grow. SL's marketplace grows by leaps and bounds, everyday. These other platforms grow by a dozen or so a day. The approval process is supposed to promote quality, but this all depends on having educated approvers, and these people are also a cost to the platform. The benefits don't outweight the costs.

Currently, there is a very big battle going on in the world of game creating platforms, such as Unity3D. It's really just kicking off. Unity was the big player, but Unreal Engine was always looming in the background, and there is CryEngine. Unreal and CryEngine had catered to small to medium size teams of developers, and Unity was basically for everyone. Now, Unreal and CryEngine have opened themselves up to the public, and are far more reasonably priced than Unity3D, but Unity has a free version. I'm not actually selling anything for Unreal or CryEngine yet, but I've been seriously checking them out, and they both accept FBX. What is interesting here, is that Unreal is not charging any commission on Merchants, and I'm not sure about CryEngine yet. Unreal is only charging a commission on sales derived from the selling of games, or profits from those game's economy, which is 5%. They understand that they want as many merchants selling products for their engine as possible. It's going to be a bloody WAR.(tangent end)

I guess I brought that up because of LL's new world, which could rival Unity3d, Unreal, and the CryEngine. This very much makes me laugh, because I came to SL from the original CryEngine, and I thought when I found SL, that it was just like CryEngine, only online all the time. The other reason I bring this up, is because if LL thinks they are going to charge the merchants more, they better not go much higher than we are already at, cause then, why even create for LL, if we can create for others, for free?

I just think that a spot in the forums would be a very simple improvement that many people would like, and it would help the forums and traffic here.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

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Of course, the SL forums has always been unusually spammy, but this has more to do with software and programming than spamming actually being a problem in most forums. I'll refrain from expanding on this more. lol

As you probably know, I sell products on every platform that allows for it.

But, being that I refuse to submit to their commission fees, I'm not actually allowed to post products on their forums.

For those that do submit to the commissions, and sell products on the platform's marketplaces, they are very much encouraged to post their products in the forums. Although, someone was looking for zombie animations, and of course got the standard big time creators that everyone knows, so I posted mine. The mods did not remove it.

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So, what you're saying is merchants should be able to post free advertising on the SL forum because "every single platform that sells 3D objects has a forum, and they all allow their merchants to post their products in the forums", when actually those other forums don't allow free posting?

[Perrie Juran]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

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PerrieJuran wrote

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I've no experience with Forums for other platforms, only with this one.  So my statements are based solely on what I see go on here.

I also understand how difficult it is for Merchants to get their products into the public eye.

So I could be wrong.  I'll admit, I don't know an alternative solution.

---

Of course, the SL forums has always been unusually spammy, but this has more to do with software and programming than spamming actually being a problem in most forums. I'll refrain from expanding on this more. lol

As you probably know, I sell products on every platform that allows for it. But, being that I refuse to submit to their commission fees, I'm not actually allowed to post products on their forums. For those that do submit to the commissions, and sell products on the platform's marketplaces, they are very much encouraged to post their products in the forums. Although, someone was looking for zombie animations, and of course got the standard big time creators that everyone knows, so I posted mine. The mods did not remove it.

(tangent)My problem is that I see how the merchants help all of the platforms massively, and see the commissions and fees as restricting the market, and not helping it. If they limit their market, they are hurting themselves, because it will limit their growth. Plus, most of these other platforms require an approval process, which adds costs to the merchants, as time is money. 1 major thing that SL has really proven to me, is that this kind of approval process massively slows the rate at which the marketplace will grow. SL's marketplace grows by leaps and bounds, everyday. These other platforms grow by a dozen or so a day. The approval process is supposed to promote quality, but this all depends on having educated approvers, and these people are also a cost to the platform. The benefits don't outweight the costs.

Currently, there is a very big battle going on in the world of game creating platforms, such as Unity3D. It's really just kicking off. Unity was the big player, but Unreal Engine was always looming in the background, and there is CryEngine. Unreal and CryEngine had catered to small to medium size teams of developers, and Unity was basically for everyone. Now, Unreal and CryEngine have opened themselves up to the public, and are far more reasonably priced than Unity3D, but Unity has a free version. I'm not actually selling anything for Unreal or CryEngine yet, but I've been seriously checking them out, and they both accept FBX. What is interesting here, is that Unreal is not charging any commission on Merchants, and I'm not sure about CryEngine yet. Unreal is only charging a commission on sales derived from the selling of games, or profits from those game's economy, which is 5%. They understand that they want as many merchants selling products for their engine as possible. It's going to be a bloody WAR.(tangent end)

I guess I brought that up because of LL's new world, which could rival Unity3d, Unreal, and the CryEngine. This very much makes me laugh, because I came to SL from the original CryEngine, and I thought when I found SL, that it was just like CryEngine, only online all the time. The other reason I bring this up, is because if LL thinks they are going to charge the merchants more, they better not go much higher than we are already at, cause then, why even create for LL, if we can create for others, for free?

I just think that a spot in the forums would be a very simple improvement that many people would like, and it would help the forums and traffic here.

---

I feel like you are comparing apples and oranges here.  And we may also be using the word "platform" a little differently.

Aren't Unity, Cry Engine, etc, etc, just tools for game development?  So when you develop content for them you are primarily developing content for people who are building games.  They are not Virtual Worlds which is what I am thinking when I say "platform."

Also you talk of building content for LL.  But that is only an indirect thing.  In Second Life you are building content for the people who use SL.  We are your customers, not Linden Lab.

Your comparisons appear to me to be about as bad as comparing SL to WOW.  They are just completely different things.  The financial model for development software is going to be very, very different than the model for a Virtual World.  Granted, SL does have tools for content development and you can even build for free.  But why should you get a free ride when you sell that content in SL?  That sounds like a one sided business deal to me.

OK, yes, LL could change the business model.  Charge me a Prim Tax when I buy rather than charging you a commission fee.  That might even be a good thing.  It could raise awareness about poorly made content that adds insane rendering costs to the experience.

[Perrie Juran]

I want to add here that I am not against people being able to promote content.  I could be wrong but the way I see it in this Forum it would be a SPAM fest.  Wading through page after page of content could be just as bad as wading through the MP. 

And still, my opinion is the number one way content/merchants gets promoted in SL is by word of mouth.

How bout this?  Make a new dance?  Toss free copies at some of the larger club owners. People will use it and then buy for themselves.  Pretty much every dance I have in my personal Intan are dances I encountered in a club somewhere.  All the way back to the Bits & Bobs I encountered when I first started SL.  Only a few of them are other dances I encountered when I went shopping for the ones I saw in use elsewhere.  But still it is the ones that I saw that got me in the store to begin with.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

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Of course, the SL forums has always been unusually spammy, but this has more to do with software and programming than spamming actually being a problem in most forums. I'll refrain from expanding on this more. lol

As you probably know, I sell products on every platform that allows for it.

But, being that I refuse to submit to their commission fees, I'm not actually allowed to post products on their forums.

For those that do submit to the commissions, and sell products on the platform's marketplaces, they are very much encouraged to post their products in the forums. Although, someone was looking for zombie animations, and of course got the standard big time creators that everyone knows, so I posted mine. The mods did not remove it.

---

So, what you're saying is merchants should be able to post

free

advertising on the SL forum because "every single platform that sells 3D objects has a forum, and they all allow their merchants to post their products in the forums", when actually those other forums

don't

allow

free

posting?

---

Those other platforms aren't exactly like SL. I can sell items for those other platforms without engaging in any contract at all with those platforms. So, they only allow people who agree to contracts with them to post freely on their forums. In SL, we are all engaging with LL under contracts, and we are all subject to all of them. So, it is impossible to sell items in SL, without being under any of those contracts. This being the case, it is exactly the same. The only difference is that I choose not to contract with the others. I'm still part of their forums tho, and get a decent amount of traffic from them.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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I feel like you are comparing apples and oranges here.  And we may also be using the word "platform" a little differently.

Aren't Unity, Cry Engine, etc, etc, just tools for game development?  So when you develop content for them you are primarily developing content for people who are building games.  They are not Virtual Worlds which is what I am thinking when I say "platform."

Also you talk of building content for LL.  But that is only an indirect thing.  In Second Life you are building content for the people who use SL.  We are your customers, not Linden Lab.

---

This all depends on who you are asking. To me, as a creator, there is no diffence at all between the platforms from a creative standpoint. Unity, CryEngine, Unreal, and SL, are all just game engines. All of them could be made into virtual worlds. Again, from a creators stand point, even down to our own business models, is all the same.

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Also you talk of building content for LL.  But that is only an indirect thing.  In Second Life you are building content for the people who use SL.  We are your customers, not Linden Lab.

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Yes, but LL benefits from it, and they make the rules. I meant building content for LL's worlds.

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Your comparisons appear to me to be about as bad as comparing SL to WOW.  They are just completely different things.  The financial model for development software is going to be very, very different than the model for a Virtual World.  Granted, SL does have tools for content development and you can even build for free.  But why should you get a free ride when you sell that content in SL?  That sounds like a one sided business deal to me.

OK, yes, LL could change the business model.  Charge me a Prim Tax when I buy rather than charging you a commission fee.  That might even be a good thing.  It could raise awareness about poorly made content that adds insane rendering costs to the experience.

---

You can't sell content for WOW.

Actually, the creators would not be getting a "free ride". We are working, and generating wealth within the economy. There is no "free ride" at all. Besides, any tax on goods is a tax on the consumer, not the creator. If LL or whomever tries to put a tax on the creator or merchant, that tax will be passed onto the consumer. So, like I said, all taxes, even in real life, is a tax on the consumer, not the business. In RL, every single tax, fee, license, or whatever, that is placed on every industry, is eventually paid by the consumer. It can't work any other way. They can use fancy words to hide the reality of who is paying the tax, but any logical anyalisis of any tax, will show you that it is always the consumers that pays the taxes.

Hence why I don't sell products on Unity's Marketplace. They charge a 30% commission. If I don't sell on their Marketplace, then I can charge 30% less on my own website, still make the same, and massively undercut their merchants. Plus, I think I posted 4 new products for Unity last week. If I sold on their website, I'd still be waiting for 1 product to get approved.

[Spica Inventor]

Free advertisement from Google image searches. I wonder how much effect that is having on the bottom line? I suspect quite a lot. :smileyvery-happy:

[Perrie Juran]

Getting back to this.

I do understand how the costs of doing business get passed on to the consumer.  I'm not that dumb.

But why should LL absorb the cost of your advertising?  There has to be a ROI for them.  And eventually someone is going to pay because there is no free lunch.  

This gets very similar to the discussion over VAT, especially as it related to land costs in SL.  Some people felt that LL should have just absorbed VAT.  There were arguments for and against it, but the bottom line still comes down to LL's perception of how it affects their bottom line.  Their decision in the matter was to not absorb it.

It's your choice not to pay Unity's marketing fees.  You may not like their business model but it does appear to be working for them.  If you are able to parley what they are doing into greater profits for yourself then all the more power to you.  It still does not make what they are doing wrong.  It would only become wrong for them if it put them out of business but even that would rightfully be their choice.  Afterall we are afterall talking about free enterprise here.

Could giving you free advertising be more profitable for every one involved?  Possibly.  But you actually have no proof of this.

[Parrish Ashbourne]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I want to add here that I am not against people being able to promote content.  I could be wrong but the way I see it in this Forum it would be a SPAM fest.  Wading through page after page of content could be just as bad as wading through the MP. 

And still, my opinion is the number one way content/merchants gets promoted in SL is by word of mouth.

How bout this?  Make a new dance?  Toss free copies at some of the larger club owners. People will use it and then buy for themselves.  Pretty much every dance I have in my personal Intan are dances I encountered in a club somewhere.  All the way back to the Bits & Bobs I encountered when I first started SL.  Only a few of them are other dances I encountered when I went shopping for the ones I saw in use elsewhere.  But still it is the ones that I saw that got me in the store to begin with.

---

I would gladly give a club owner a free house if they would place it on their dance floor

I don't remember the xstreet forums having a spam problem in their new item forum section, few merchants seemed to use it, which is why it may have worked for those that did.  As a merchant it was all so interesting to watch, as it's about the only time you got to see how many clicks/views other items get.  I often wondered if most the people watching that section of the forum were just other merchants, but it certainly did seem to help to get first day sales for new listings, and seeing forum views vs marketplace clicks gave you some idea of how good your images and descriptions are, or point out a miss leading title. 

Word of mouth and inworld item placement are certainly some of the best marketing strategies in SL, but take time to get running.  A quick forum post that helps for first 24 hours can be worth the time.

[Perrie Juran]

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Parrish Ashbourne wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I want to add here that I am not against people being able to promote content.  I could be wrong but the way I see it in this Forum it would be a SPAM fest.  Wading through page after page of content could be just as bad as wading through the MP. 

And still, my opinion is the number one way content/merchants gets promoted in SL is by word of mouth.

How bout this?  Make a new dance?  Toss free copies at some of the larger club owners. People will use it and then buy for themselves.  Pretty much every dance I have in my personal Intan are dances I encountered in a club somewhere.  All the way back to the Bits & Bobs I encountered when I first started SL.  Only a few of them are other dances I encountered when I went shopping for the ones I saw in use elsewhere.  But still it is the ones that I saw that got me in the store to begin with.

---

I would gladly give a club owner a free house if they would place it on their dance floor

I don't remember the xstreet forums having a spam problem in their new item forum section, few merchants seemed to use it, which is why it may have worked for those that did.  As a merchant it was all so interesting to watch, as it's about the only time you got to see how many clicks/views other items get.  I often wondered if most the people watching that section of the forum were just other merchants, but it certainly did seem to help to get first day sales for new listings, and seeing forum views vs marketplace clicks gave you some idea of how good your images and descriptions are, or point out a miss leading title. 

Word of mouth and inworld item placement are certainly some of the best marketing strategies in SL, but take time to get running.  A quick forum post that helps for first 24 hours can be worth the time.

---

As far as Xstreet goes, that was then and this is now.  And of course without doing it here it is difficult to predict the results, especially the 'spam' factor.  My predictions are based on my observations of the Market Place, this Forum and the spamming that occurs In World.  But they could of course be wrong.

Considering the deluge of products now in the MP, I'd predict a deluge of 'new items postings' if LL did as Medhue has requested resulting in the equivelant of a spam fest, especially if the listings were for free.  The signal to noise ratio could be abysmal.  But again, my prediction could be wrong.

Maybe it is worth a try.....but I don't know.

[LlazarusLlong]

Forum marketing? There would need to be two subforums, to keep it honest.

1. Stuff that definitely won't migrate to SL:TNG

2. Stuff that probably won't migrate to SL:TNG

[Parrish Ashbourne]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Parrish Ashbourne wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I want to add here that I am not against people being able to promote content.  I could be wrong but the way I see it in this Forum it would be a SPAM fest.  Wading through page after page of content could be just as bad as wading through the MP. 

And still, my opinion is the number one way content/merchants gets promoted in SL is by word of mouth.

How bout this?  Make a new dance?  Toss free copies at some of the larger club owners. People will use it and then buy for themselves.  Pretty much every dance I have in my personal Intan are dances I encountered in a club somewhere.  All the way back to the Bits & Bobs I encountered when I first started SL.  Only a few of them are other dances I encountered when I went shopping for the ones I saw in use elsewhere.  But still it is the ones that I saw that got me in the store to begin with.

---

I would gladly give a club owner a free house if they would place it on their dance floor

I don't remember the xstreet forums having a spam problem in their new item forum section, few merchants seemed to use it, which is why it may have worked for those that did.  As a merchant it was all so interesting to watch, as it's about the only time you got to see how many clicks/views other items get.  I often wondered if most the people watching that section of the forum were just other merchants, but it certainly did seem to help to get first day sales for new listings, and seeing forum views vs marketplace clicks gave you some idea of how good your images and descriptions are, or point out a miss leading title. 

Word of mouth and inworld item placement are certainly some of the best marketing strategies in SL, but take time to get running.  A quick forum post that helps for first 24 hours can be worth the time.

---

As far as Xstreet goes, that was then and this is now.  And of course without doing it here it is difficult to predict the results, especially the 'spam' factor.  My predictions are based on my observations of the Market Place, this Forum and the spamming that occurs In World.  But they could of course be wrong.

Considering the deluge of products now in the MP, I'd predict a deluge of 'new items postings' if LL did as Medhue has requested resulting in the equivelant of a spam fest, especially if the listings were for free.  The signal to noise ratio could be abysmal.  But again, my prediction could be wrong.

Maybe it is worth a try.....but I don't know.

---

The signal to noise ratio is all ready abysmal, LL at least seems to react faster removing forum spam then marketplace spam.  The best way to post with in the rules of a new item forum is to make more new items.  Because everyone can see the number of views a post gets it becomes obvious when some one spams that no one is reading past the first spam post or 2 by the same person, even the spammer will figure out they are just wasting time doing all the extra post.

The way keyword spam works on the marketplace the people that benefit from keyword spam are people that all ready have high sales search placement, it's even worse when the original market for the spammed items is larger then the market of the keyword spammed which is why unrelated items end up on the first page of search so often.  Then the spammer is reworded with better search placement from sales.

At least posting to anew items forum is a level playing field and even if some one some hows spams it it obvious and there is no long term reword with in the forums.

Unlike fixing the marketplace or on going reporting and removing of spam on the marketplace, all LL has to do to try a new listing forum is create a new forum subsection, and create a few simple rules like only one post per day per person, new items only, no variations, you can only post your own items. 

Good or bad, spam or no spam it's only 5 minutes for LL to set up or take down a new subsection in the forums, The only reason I see for LL not trying this is it competes with payed marketplace enhancements.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

... Our social network should be for both social, and business, but in those 2 distinct categories so that people see and find what they want.

Beyond those few items, I'm hoping for better marketing systems in the other world being created.

---

 

Actually I wish there were two forums, one social, and another for land and products.

 

[Pamela Galli]

that is how it was originally. Then then land owners staged a spam-in, in the merchant forum, and were awarded their land forum where they coulad advertise.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Getting back to this.

I do understand how the costs of doing business get passed on to the consumer.  I'm not that dumb.

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I don't think anyone is dumb, especially you. What I do think is that people tend not to think about these things, and mainstream media has been pushing for more taxes on businesses, as if businesses actually pay the tax. Propaganda overrides intelligence almost every single time.

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

But why should LL absorb the cost of your advertising?  There has to be a ROI for them.  And eventually someone is going to pay because there is no free lunch.  

This gets very similar to the discussion over VAT, especially as it related to land costs in SL.  Some people felt that LL should have just absorbed VAT.  There were arguments for and against it, but the bottom line still comes down to LL's perception of how it affects their bottom line.  Their decision in the matter was to not absorb it.

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IMHO, the only similarities I see here are that they are 2 items that people want other people to pay for. lol

On the advertising, LL should absorb it because it generates economic activity, which results in us and them making more. Heck, each 1 of us could create a forum and let people post on it for free, and it would cost us almost nothing to do that. If it benefited us, we'd do it. Why does anybody have a forum? There are costs, Yet they are everywhere, and always free. I don't see how advertising on them is more work, or not a good thing.

As far as VAT goes, although I feel for my european friends, you could argue that they did this to themselves. If they want all this "free" stuff, then the money must come from somewhere. Why should LL pay for their healthcare, or unemployment, or whatever? LL doesn't benefit at all. With marketing on the forums, LL sees some benefit. VAT can only hurt LL. It's only a negative to them.

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

It's your choice not to pay Unity's marketing fees.  You may not like their business model but it does appear to be working for them.  If you are able to parley what they are doing into greater profits for yourself then all the more power to you.  It still does not make what they are doing wrong.  It would only become wrong for them if it put them out of business but even that would rightfully be their choice.  Afterall we are afterall talking about free enterprise here.

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Never did I say Unity was wrong. I might have implied that it's not smart, but I never said, or implied they were doing something wrong. The thing about business is that you never know how things would have been different unless you try it. As with almost everything, the complexities are many times too vast to know in the end what the best direction is. All you can do is keep your mind open, and collect as much information as you can. It also depends on your goal. Like, maybe, Unity thinks that charging a commission and their approval system gives them more control, which results in a better product. Personally, I see this as misguided, as I've watched other companies do the same, and places like SL, and Youtube that have a completely different approach. I think SL and Youtube have a much better system that caters to the largest markets possible.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

... Our social network should be for both social, and business, but in those 2 distinct categories so that people see and find what they want.

Beyond those few items, I'm hoping for better marketing systems in the other world being created.

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Actually I wish there were two forums, one social, and another for land and products.

 

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Well, that is the great thing about forums, I don't see the threads or topics I don't goto. So, they already work that way. I was speaking more about SL's little social network, which is alot like Facebook. Many residents like to fill their feeds with beautiful images of their lives in SL. Some of them are quite amazing. I would want LL to add another feed to that social network, just for merchants to post products on their own feeds, which would also be linked to a feed where people can see all of them. I'd be fine with LL charging for this too. I'd suggest just charging people some cheap, like 10 or even 50 lindens per image.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

that is how it was originally. Then then land owners staged a spam-in, in the merchant forum, and were awarded their land forum where they coulad advertise.

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And people think merchants are pushy! lol

Even though many of us are land owner, we don't have the leverage that land barons do.

[Medhue Simoni]

Just thought I'd put up some screenshots of some other prominent platforms with marketplaces, and how different their forums are to SL's.

 

Renderosity

 

Daz

 

And the kicker, Unity.

It's almost like LL hates us. lol