LovedWarrior Quan Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hey all be patient with me cuz I don't know a lot about sl business and learning.So here is what I can not decide.I made tons of mesh flowers and were selling them as copy and modify so I can keep the ownership of them and so people buy them from me only. AND I heard real bad stuff from other builders about someone selling real nice beds and her whole market got stolen and people were selling her stuff cheap or free so she lost all her products. She complained and never got help from LLs. That freaked me out but I get a lot of customers asking me full perm and if I make a few I might as well make more since I can sell them more expensive and earn more. I am here as a serious builder. I mean I am not doing this as a hobby.Everyone tells me full perm products sell more and more in need. But i can't decide. What if I make them and people buy them, then they give them for free as gifts or one gives one to someone they trust and down the line, it starts going around free. Sometimes people give me gifts and say here this is full perm. Like full perm means free.What are your experiences in making full perm products? Do your customers really follow your rules? How can you monitor the customers who buy from you and what they make with it? So far I made a few and made the prices real high compared to my copy and modify ones. I gave a few rules that I thought are necessary. I was hoping if I make them expensive, people who buy them will not give them around. But not sure how I can stop them if they don't follow the rules.Maybe you can give me a few pointers.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I don't make anything full perm, but I am puzzled why you have pages of things full perm if you cannot decide whether to sell full perm or not. I saw some flowers I would like to have full perm but not with the restrictions you have -- can not sell them transfer and cannot use the texture you have on them?? What is the point of selling them with 20 different textures if the buyers are not allowed to use the textures? If you are that protective, I would not think the full perm business is for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovedWarrior Quan Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 waw that was harsh. Those pages are done yesterday and today i am still not sure. I would think if one wants to resell they should use their own textures. I mean if they r not even able to make textures for them where is their creativity which they r supposed to add to mine to resell? I made several colors because i had customers buying several colors at once even if each is full perm. About the transfer rights, I do not know why they would want to buy with transfer rights. What would that accomplish other than giving it as gift at the end? The 3rd person can easily give it as a gift. Most male custumers will do that with flowers. But thanks for your input anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 As someone who, frequently, buys full perm stuff from others for my builds, I can say that I typically avoid people with numerous restrictions. I fully support a merchant's right to add whatever restrictions he or she wants, I just won't support them financially I do believe that having the restriction of not making it a freebie, and not selling it full perm, are very reasonable. I do not consider telling folks to not sell things transfer to be a reasonable restriction(my opinion only) when the product being purchased is typically a product that is transferred. Take flowers for example, you have to consider who would be buying these products, and why they would want it. As a builder who has made several flower-related products in the past, I can say with a decent amount of certainty that MOST who buy them, are buying them to gift to others. So if I were to, for example, buy a full perm flower kit, I would likely build an item that others would buy, in order to gift to others. Not many people buy flowers in vases simply for decoration purposes, even if that is the intent of the creator. Most people buy them in order to give them to someone else(and by gift I do not mean freebie, think more of holiday or birthday gifts, for example). If I am buying full perm supplies for my business, which is really the only reason I buy full perm supplies, I buy for a specific reason. There are numerous others who sell flowers and flower-related materials for builders. Few of them have strict restrictions, and I can guess that the reason most do not say "cannot sell transfer" is because they realize that most who buy this category are doing so to create gifts that other residents can buy...for other residents. So, my biggest tip would be to pay close attention to your audience and why they would want your product in the first place. That has to be taken into consideration, even before you decide on whatever restrictions you want to have. Take a look at other full perm sellers, and take a good note of their restrictions too(especially folks that have been in the business for a long time). No restrictions you set, are actually going to stop those who may have nefarious purposes for purchasing. That is to say, someone going ahead and breaking your restrictions, is going to do it no matter what. Those people are a lot fewer than most want to believe. Does it happen? Of course, it happens everywhere, online, offline, everywhere. Also, unless the person actually copybots your product, given that it is a mesh, you will *always* show as the creator of that item(even if the end product has a new creator's name, any components of the product that you made, will show your name). Example, if I take a mesh flower set from you, add it to my own vase, re-texture them both, and then list it for others to buy...I will show as the creator, but if someone were to examine the product parts, you would show as the creator of the flower bits. You're not going to lose out on having your name out there as the creator of the flowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovedWarrior Quan Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Yes thank you. I thought since people can buy as gift in MP, that gifting option is already there. But thanks I need to think more about this. Most people who asked me are furniture builders who want to add flowers to their builds and sell. But anyway thank you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 If you don't expect someone to use the textures then don't supply them. Builders may choose to buy a full perm kit because it's not worth their time to make the same item from scratch or because they can't be bothered (as two completely valid reason). The item may be a small piece in a much larger item. As such, using the textures supplied is perfectly reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Harsh? I see nothing harsh in my reply. I suppose you will find this harsh,too: If you find straight answers to questions harsh, dont ask the questions in a public forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Am I missing something? She is selling the same flowers in a dozen listings, the only difference being the color of the texture. If she does not allow the texture to be used by the buyer, but only the model, isnt this the same as listing the same item a dozen times? Why not just sell the untextured model? Of course, if she does not include the ao maps, that further diminishes the value to buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I do make my own mesh flowers, but in order to texture them I need to have the model in Blender so I can either paint directly on them, or map them to a flower texture, or at least make an ao map. All I could do with your flowers is apply some unshaded texture or tint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I have a quick question.. Why do you care what someone does with my creation from your mesh? If i make it no copy/ no mod/ yes trans what can they do with it other than give it as a gift or sell it? Why do you care? As long as they cant sell it full perm it should not matter. ETA... why are roses listed under trees and shrubs? Shouldn't they be in flowers and plants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 i would have to agree with you there, same object different textures that arent even in the item being sold. And no AO map?!?! seriously? That needs to be part of the listing. ETA... And there is no DEMO... at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 LovedWarrior Quan wrote: Yes thank you. I thought since people can buy as gift in MP, that gifting option is already there. But thanks I need to think more about this. Most people who asked me are furniture builders who want to add flowers to their builds and sell. But anyway thank you again. Yes people can buy the full perm set as a gift, if they so choose. But that's not typically how people shop for gifts like that. I've used countless flowers, flower parts, textures, vases, containers...yadda, yadda, yadda, in builds, for years. I have actually only created my own sculpts and meshes a handful of times. Primarily, I buy from others who have a way easier time making these things than I do.(I struggle with blender, and similar products because I am legally blind and that **bleep** is a pain in my ass sometimes when I can't really see it...but I digress..) I like to mix up what I use, and I scour the MP, and inworld, frequently, for things to add to my collection. Whether or not I use them right away, I have a rather extensive collection of "full perm stuff others have made that I bought intended to create something else myself, or add it to an existing product i've already built"..phew, run on sentence there. The first thing I take note of, is if there are any requirements, restrictions, EULA, etc.. attached to the product. If they don't sit well with me, I move along. If I am on the fence, I save the page, and then move on. Most of the time, I find what I am looking for relatively quickly. I like buying from people who make full perm things, primarily because most of them seem to understand that the reason I am buying is so that I can create my own stuff too, and then sell it. That means I can use their products (mesh and sculpts are really all I buy) and add them in with my own creativity...and voila, new product. Even the things that come with textures, I rarely use their textures, I'm actually pretty good at making my own, lol. Though, like most, I also appreciate maps to help me on that journey, they're not a deal breaker. I can break it down better than I did before to explain why transfer perms are a necessary evil in the building world.... You as the original seller/creator make full perm stuff I, as your customer, buy your stuff, that makes me your tier 1 customer I then create something nifty for other people My customer comes along and buys my nifty thing, that I used your components in, which makes him/her my tier 1 customer and your tier 2 My customer takes the nifty thing he/she bought form me and gifts it to someone else, making the new end receiver my tier 2 and your tier 3 Make sense? Most full perm products(that I have come across), unless specifically used for something that really should be copy, are going to need to be able to be transferred. Most people who create full perm things, are creating for and selling to, other creators/builders/merchants. It stands to reason that many products are going to need to be transfer not just by the person buying from you but also his/her customers, when it is other creators/sellers/merchants buying from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Creators who respect the EULAs of others are not likely to want something with such extensive restrictions. I suspect that the buyers of these flowers will mostly be those who ignore EULAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rya Nitely Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Re: Full perm or not? NOT <- there's your answer. It doesn't suit your personality. You will undergo major stress. Your prices are high and you have too many rules. Your most likely customers (which won't be many) will be those who have not read your rules, or those who will choose to ignore them. Everytime someone buys one of your full perm items you will be wondering (and rightly so) how they intend to use it. Stick to copy mod and save yourself the stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Ok, sometimes the merchants here can be a tough crowd but often it's obective so when asking for comment and opinion, it's usually safest to wear protective armour. In my opinion... There's no point you selling full perm mesh because as others have said, this term alone makes it even ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS in you selling it as full perm in the first place! "- Do not sell your version with transfer rights (copy and/ or modify only). Someone down the line will give it for free so never sell with transfer rights." Why even give transfer rights if you're not wishing for anyone to transfer it, mod and copy is all that's left and you can sell mod/copy and be happy. Also, i'd be more careful with the keywords as this is pretty keyword spammy but borderline. However, the product for sale is NOT a vase of roses for example. It can be used with an additional product but if i'm searching for a vase of roses and this turns up, it's incorrect. I understand what you're getting at hence my opinion is that it's borderline but still keyword spammy:- Keywords: rose, roses, mesh rose, mesh rose buds, rose bush, mesh rose bud in vase, rose tree, mesh rose bush, red rose buds, pink rose buds, vase of roses, mesh rose tree, rose buds in pot, mesh roses, rose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovedWarrior Quan Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Umm i looked at your stuff and some of the stuff you sell is not even full perm and has half the price I am selling and it is not even complicated built just a few triangles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovedWarrior Quan Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovedWarrior Quan Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Yes as I said in my first post, I dont sell ANYThing full perm. Not sure why you think my things are "not complicated" but if you are trying to get into insulting the contnet of others, let me just say that you had best take care your own house is not made of glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovedWarrior Quan Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 I come from another place where people buy from your kind of full perm products (which means they can retexture it and sell it) but not changing textures is called zero change and it just shows no creativity and therefore not seen as a good practise and customers ignore such people. So I thought asking people to change textures is a normal thing but i guess not. I understand "no transfer" right is an issue here and i understand your points. But I also didnt get an answer to what happens if they start giving it around as freebie. I am guessing there is not much u can do or it hardly ever happens. I had customers asking me to make full perm and they promise not to make theirs as full perm. That was before I even knew about putting rules on full perm products. My first full perm products have obsulately no rules. I only discovered this rule thingy after my customers told me lol .They said it so many times I thought it was normal. I also recently read other people's full perm rules and some r too complicated for me like " u can make this copy/mod, mod/trans but not copy/trans..." bla bla. I thought just saying dont make it trans makes it easy and stops the possibility of being freebie. Appearently thats a huge bad thing. Thanks for telling me. I even had a customer who asked me to make an exclusive product only for him and i gave him the dea file and he still made it copy/mod only. That product is not even in my shop. It is completely his. So I was like ok this must be a big deal. So basically you are saying once u make something full perm, just forget about it. But the rules i have been reading made me think people are very strict about their full perm stuff. I am surpirsed to read otherwise here. Even in sl classes that I took, each lecturer emphesizes how full perm products are not your products after you buy them and how they should not be given as freebie and how important it is to respect the owner. I am very very surprised to hear differently. Like some one here said " why do u care about my product after selling yours?" or something in those lines. That sounds exactly opposite to what I learned. (umm " doesn't suit my personality to make full perms"? psychoanalysis even waw! lol and here I thought I was a fun person making videos of me and my dog playing in the snow and showing it to my friends in sl.) So for those friendly, kind, and most of all helpfull merchants who answered my post (and thank you very much. I appreciate it a lot), how does that sound for rules: -Do not sell your version as full perm -Do not give as freebie -Use only in sl and no other sim (this is something i read in other full perm products and I have no clue how one can get ur product into another sim but appearently it is possible). Moreover, I don't have rules like " sell urs with such and such price" (I actually had a customer who IMed me and asked me if she can sell hers with whatever price even after buying and reading the rules) or " do not give my uvmaps to others" heck I don't even know what problem that causes. UVmaps r specific to each mesh so what if someone else sees it? I even put them in my pictures to make sure people can retexture them before they buy them). Well, thanks a lot for all the help. I learn as I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Quick question... Why are you so hung up on it being given as a freebie? If i buy your mesh and decide i want to gift my group members with a no trans version for Valentines day, why would you care? You made your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 LovedWarrior Quan wrote: So for those friendly, kind, and most of all helpfull merchants who answered my post (and thank you very much. I appreciate it a lot), how does that sound for rules: -Do not sell your version as full perm -Do not give as freebie -Use only in sl and no other sim (this is something i read in other full perm products and I have no clue how one can get ur product into another sim but appearently it is possible). Those are more along the lines of what a lot of content creators are looking for when buying content for building purposes, imo. You might have some who take issue with the freebie part, but, really, you can't please us all And, that tidbit actually exists in a lot of EULAs and such, so it's not something new(in sl, or elsewhere). There are some things I have specifically bought to add to my creations that I gift away...or, freebies. For those items, I make sure that when I buy a product, there are no restrictions on whether or not I can use it as a freebie or gift item. If there are stated rules, then I simply don't buy those products for that creation. There aren't nearly as many completely unique products, so finding one made by someone else without that rule, isn't usually very difficult. I think part of the problem, in regards to this kind of product creation/sale, is that you really need to know your target market. For someone who creates meshes, sculpts, textures, whatever have you, and lists them specifically in the building section on MP, or markets them to other creators, this is even more important. You need to think about as many possible end outcomes as you can, and if you're not sure, it's always wise to ask the people most likely to buy your stuff(which is what you did here, even if not all the answers are what you want to hear).Taking in the possibilities of group gifts, exclusive products, final end users(that is, the customers, of your customers, or potential ones anyway) will likely have some relevance to how you list and what restrictions you set. Freebies and group gifts are probably your biggest concern, judging from your responses. So, it might be time to rethink whether or not you want to offer free perm products at all, and if you do, it may be a concern you're going to have to let go if you want to increase sales. You don't have to, of course, but using your flowers as an example, you're going to limit your own market. The possible end outcomes for your products could be endless, only restricted by the imaginations of your customers, and your rules...so keep that in mind. Do freebies get handed out that shouldn't? Yes, and in some opinions it happens extremely often. But, to be honest copybotted stuff gets handed out as freebies way more often than stuff that says "don't give it out for free", in my experience. You still won't stop them all, and unless you do find copybotted materials, it isn't likely that (with the restriction in place) you'll get any help from anyone if you do find instances wherein your products have been made into something else, and given away. Whether or not that is right, or wrong...I'm not going to delve into. I have my beliefs, others have theirs, and you'll find a mixed bunch of responses. I do know that the more expensive your full perm products are, the less restrictions people *seem* to want attached to them. People who buy from full perm creators are, more often than not, also trying to make a buck too, even if it's just a hobby that pays for itself. I can add all kinds of things to others' full perm stuff, change things around, create my own textures, and generally do some nifty things. Whether or not they ever make it to the market, is an entirely different story. I work with charities more than I do on my store, and often those items are giveaways, donations, prizes, etc... so the need for transfer capabilities has to exist(for me, those I donate to, and the final receipient of the product). Often times I have to hand the donations off to someone else, so they, in turn, can hand it to the recipient. If the person in charge of the event can't then transfer it to another recipient, then it's usually pointless for me to create the product in the first place. Sure, in some cases, I hand the prize over myself, but it's not very commonplace anymore. It's also not commonplace when I create, or offer, a bunch of prizes to be used at a later date, especially if I am not going to be inworld around the time the prizes need to be handed out. As for what you hear from others elsewhere....take EVERY bit of advice(including mine) with a grain of salt. I've helped loads of people build, helped others with their stores, and generally helped people with sl. Sometimes the advice I offer goes directly against anything else someone has "heard". That doesn't mean I am right, but it also doesn't mean the other people that person has listened to are right either. You gotta do what works for you, your business, and your ideals. Not all building classes, lecturers, teachers, instructors, guides, aides, helpers, whatever have you are going to have the same advice. Of course I am also of the camp that "just because it's full perm, doesn't mean it's yours to do whatever you want with...unless someone tells you specifically that you can". It still doesn't mean I'm sitting in the right camp, though There is no "it should never be given as a freebie" rule across the board, nor should there be, and anyone who says that is likely not thinking very clearly at the moment, or has very little true experience in this area(creators creating content for other creators to create content, that is). Some creators really don't care what you do with their stuff. I am one of those creators. If I make something full perm, I truly do not care what people do with it, lol. But, if someone asks me to respect their rules, and I choose to purchase, I respect their rules. I always have a choice of purchasing, or not purchasing. If you don't state your rules in advance though....I'm not responsible for when/if I break them. That's on you, and you only.(generally speaking) for not being clear, 'cuz my crystal ball broke some years back and I'm too cheap to repair it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I think you should put in the restriction that others cannot sell the full-perm flower by itself...most who sell full-perm items specify that their items can only be sold within a larger build. For example, someone could include it in an assembled garden, or as an addition to a house. Otherwise you are setting up a sitiuation for others to compete against you with your own product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Luna Bliss wrote: I think you should put in the restriction that others cannot sell the full-perm flower by itself...most who sell full-perm items specify that their items can only be sold within a larger build. For example, someone could include it in an assembled garden, or as an addition to a house. Otherwise you are setting up a sitiuation for others to compete against you with your own product. Seeing as she already states that you can not sell her flower full perm, how would anyone buying her flower be competing with her? If i buy it and then make a bad ass texture for the petals and leaves, slap a green woody texture on the stem and thorns and sell it no copy, how is that competing with her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovedWarrior Imako Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hi all, Tari, thank you very much. I read your post and will read a it a few times more. I appreciate all the effort and the time you took to answer me. I want to make sure I understand all that you are telling me. I opened this subject in the Builders Brewery group yesterday. From all your answers here and the chat there, I learned new things. Thank you all. I now understand what full perm means defferent things to people with different views. Some builders said they make their cheap stuff full perm and never worry about what happens to it and that made me think. My understanding of full perm was completely different due to my background in other 3d worlds. My understanding was I make more than awesome products than my copy and modify ones because i am selling it to other awesome builders who make awesome stuff so they buy mine and add it to theirs and sell better and I earn more this way because I make them more expensive than my copy and modify stuff, moreover, I still keep the ownership. However I see this isnt the trend here and in fact, this will cause a big problem to my already existing products. It seems full perm means I make a few nice things and basially give it to other people for whatever they might used them. Interesting, one person in the group mentioned that " full term" title confuses people and allows different meanings to different people. Some people call theirs " builders' kit." That also made me understand more. I might make a few flower heads, stalks, and leaves and make them cheap and sell them as full perm. However, I will not make my flowers full perm from what I learned above. So, I thank you all for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now