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Custom product, customer CLAIMS to be unsatisfied, need help! D:


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Hey all, sorry if this is the wrong topic to post a thread in (wasn't sure which one this would fit under)

 

 I made a custom product for someone and I explained my TOS to this person before an order was placed, in short and in (relevant parts to this question) it basically states that I would edit the product to the customers satisfaction, now, I start by working from a reference card I hand to them, they fill in and return it to me (including reference pics/descriptions of what they would like etc) which is also what this person did. During creation I would often show this person the progress of the creation to ensure it was going in the right direction of what they want, to start off, the first model I created they weren't so happy with so I was more than happy to completely start from scratch again and let them hand me a new reference/description card to work from, during this period I would often get IMs which would throw me off the current work I was doing (which they had previously requested but changed their mind i guess) and had to keep re-doing parts of the product, which can be somewhat expected, so i'm not complaining, I continued frequently showing the customer the progress of their new reference  and they became satisfied with the direction it was taking and would fill me in on what to keep and what to change etc etc which I kept doing along the way until they were happy with whatever part they were referring to.

 

Now, as the product was 99.9% finished and just needed a slight "polish up" (nothing that was going to change what I showed them at all other than looking 'neater') and a last minute change up of anything they wanted, I showed them the final result to ensure they were completely happy to purchase it, they said they were, with enthusiasm in fact and sent the money to me, which of course was followed by me sending them the product, followed by a "Yayyy" All was well and good for several minutes, until the dreaded IM sound occured which was of course this person now claiming they werent satisfied, now, I'm not the brightest star in the sky but I'm 100% certain that just a few minutes ago they were more than happy to buy it and I made a point of ensuring that they were to avoid exactly this problem. Needless to say, I discussed what issues they had and even edited the whole thing yet again and even gave them more textures and what not than was anticipated or even discussed, they then became "satisfied" again.

 

Several days past, lo and behold I logged into an offline IM from this person, demanding an entire new texture etc, I replied saying I am willing to edit it again. I did. I recently was away from home in RL and therefore had no access to SL, I came back today, again logged into an offline IM, this time being threatened that they are taking this matter to linden labs if i do not make them an entire new product etc calling me fraudulent and what not, when in fact this person for a start, got more than was agreed in the price, I had never refused to edit the product to this persons liking during its creation, I did everything that was asked of me and more to be quite frank, and this person is still insisting that they are unsatisfied.

 

Now, the product itself is full perm and has already been handed over so I don't know where I stand on this because they were more than happy to start with on the second finalized product and for all I know they could just be trying to get a free product out of me, or more free things to "make up for it"  they have already got more than they paid for and I just don't know what to do, I have replied stating I am willing to edit but not provide a full new product or refund due to the reason they could be just trying to get it for free.

 

If they hadnt said they were satisfied, we wouldnt be in this situation right now because I would of continued to edit it to their preference, but the fact that they did and sent me the money and I sent them the product already has got us here, I'd just like to know where I stand on this and what I should do about it if anyone cares to help out? D:

 

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I've seen this from time-to-time - I work as a custom (typically Business-2-Business) scripter and have done for the past uh... 6 years? (just to frame my angle/experience) I'll also bold the important bits, because I ramble.

Firstly the important thing - Linden Lab will have no interest in your customer. All sales in Second Life are final, and under a Buyer Beware policy. LL do not investigate in-world sales or interpret contracts (even those that are legally binding, with the exception of a DMCA). You are free and clear 'legally'.

Your only risk at this point (besides the wasting of your time) should be your reputation - if this customer goes out and reviews you poorly, starts spreading rumours or even exaggerating/lying about you, will you be able to prove your case? I've had this get loud and annoying a few times, the main trick is to explain (or have a reply ready-written) explaining 'your side' and credit your customers with the intellect to work out who was reasonable. It doesn't help to call each other names, and definitely doesn't do to keep arguing with them until you get frustrated - allowing your words to be used against you.

Moving forward, my policy is that I do what I call "point revisions" - essentially I'll move a product from version 0.1 (early development) to 1.0 (initial release) - as a single project. To get above 1.0 (to 1.01, 1.1 or 2.0) the customer would need to re-hire me, and we'd discuss a new fee and arrange to reach a pre-set point.

That said, most of my contracts typically pay for version 0.1 to 1.9 - the post-release point but without any re-imagining or additional features that weren't considered at first - as this would push the version model into the 2.0 range or higher. All this method requires is something called Version Control - determine what parts of development count for how much of the finished product they count towards. Once you reach the pre-agreed "exit point", you're done. If people want to pay for post-release development you can allow them to do so.

Given that you've handed over the Full Perm work already, I'd say you've reached your own version of v1.0. Creating a new texture (as the customer wants) effectively gives them two sellable products (the second one could be different enough to be a whole separate product). You've 'released' the materials and the customer can decide to re-hire you to complete a new project - moving the product from v1.0 to v2.0.

Lastly, don't worry! I know the tendancy to be a perfectionist runs deep in me - the moment someone says "I wanted something different" I go into full-panic. It's important to work out for yourself when a project is "done" - you always have to keep control of the development process. Scope creep is a dangerous thing in SL as there are plenty of people who'll see an offer like yours and decide they can tie-up your time forever, endlessly creating more textures for free.

Hope this makes sense. I can clarify or expand should you need it.

ETA: Haha, I posted basically the same thing Sassy wrote, but with more words and less humour!

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Some people cannot / will not be satisfied, ever, no matter what you do.

 

If you have fullfilled your part of the deal, and even gone beyond, you are under no further obligation to do business with this person. Accept that there will be no pleasing him and move on.

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Also, I would say you are lucky you got paid. I dont do much custom work but when I have, I charge 50% up front, then I rez the item with the rest of the price on it, and if they like it they can buy it. 

 

ETA: I have never done anything full perm, and I only do from-scratch custom things if I plan to sell them myself. 

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Personally, I would get out of doing custom work for people. Unless you are getting paid extremely well, I would not do it. I know that there is a very large range when it come to price. So, just to be clear, if you aren't getting paid, on average, $30/hour to do the work, then don't do it. The skills to do this work cost that much or alot more. I do it all the time, but I rarely do it for people in SL, because they aren't used to paying that kind of money. Don't get me wrong, I will change things for customers. I'm talking about doing something completely custom, from start to finish.

2nd point is that the market for custom items, has many issues. You have to look at who those types of people are. I'm not saying that all of the people wanting custom items are this way, but there are enough that they destroy the market. Many of these people want custom, and have no idea how to make the items. What they are looking for, is someone to be their puppet. Like you manipulate the tools in the program to get the results you want, they are doing the same for you. The bottom line is, that they aren't artists. They really don't even know what they want, or at least not know in detail what they want. It would be like us, sitting down infont of the program, and just modeling away, with no direct purpose or direction. That's fine for us to do that, as it is our time we are wasting. It's much different when someone else is wanting us to work like this, from their head. Much like you or I would work on something we think is a good idea, and then we end up scrapping it, cause we figured out it was a bad idea, they are trying to do that using us, again, like we are a program they are playing with. Our time to them is meaningless, as we would think the program's time is meaningless, as we are like the program.

So, like I said, If they aren't paying you big bucks, then don't do it. I got this Indy developer right now wanting to pay me $300 for a set of soccer animations for his Unity game. The guy is delusional, if he thinks I'm making 20 some animations for him for that much. I don't need the money that bad, and it will keep me from taking on other more profitable jobs.

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Yes, that is probably something I should have done, but like you said I'm lucky I got paid for the work I did. Needless to say I'll start work on public products from today onwards and steer clear from customs unless they are worth all the hassle!

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Don't be discouraged tho. I have this 1 client that I've been working with for about 6 months now, and they always have something for me every month. Never once have they questioned the cost. There have been jobs that were very pricy, into the thousands, and little $30 jobs. Heck, I was supposed to give them another quote last night. I think they have dealt with enough people that they know I'm going to deliver, and if I can't, then I'll tell them I can't, or it's a bad idea. I have even brought in SL clothing designer to help them, of course I did all the rigging. They were paid extremely well too. That's just it tho, the companies that are making games know that our time is not cheap, and the smart people will willingly pay the price.

Heck, that Unity soccer guy got back to me yesterday and said he was sorry for making such a low offer, and that he really wants me to do the work. He's trying to get funding and will definitely contact me when he has more to offer. I wrote him back saying that, if he wants, we can go animation by animation until he gets more funding.

My point is, don't be afraid to stand your ground, especially when you know you are in the right. Most of the time, you'll be rewarded for doing so. Of course, don't be unreasonable.

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