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Are IP Address Trackers again being used in SL?


Marcus Ansia
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Are IP Address tracking devices once again being used in Second Life?

  

I'm a very recent gacha addict.  Yes I admit it, I'm hooked, I love to play the machines hoping to get the full set of things that appeal to my personal taste.  I also love to spend hours of my time (lol) then visiting the many different Yard Sale events that have sprung to life, hoping for that special bargain or acquiring the final missing piece to the set I have been trying so desperately to complete.  I enjoyed this pastime very much, until recently that is, which leads now to why I have written this piece.

 

On Tuesday 8th April 2014 I paid a visit to one of my regular gacha hunting haunts... (SITE NAME WITHELD TO CONFORM TO PRIVACY LAWS).  I had just bought my 3rd item and taken it into my Inventory, when I suddenly found myself teleported home.  I was quite surprised, to say the least, as to why that had happened, so I tried to teleport back.  But to my astonishment, I received a message saying I had been banned from the region.  First thoughts were... WTF?

 

After several failed attempts, I asked a couple of friends to try.  Neither of them had a problem and while there kindly checked out the About Land access settings, but confirmed I was not on the ban list, meaning some other form of security device had been used to eject me (reason why still unknown).

 

Soon after my (RL) daughter paid me a visit and knowing she also has a Second Life account I asked her to log in and try.  She had her laptop with her so didn't even need to use my pc.  Surprise surprise, when she tried to teleport to (SITE NAME WITHELD TO CONFORM TO PRIVACY LAWS), she received a message saying she didn't have access to that location.  Not banned, just no access.

 

This started alarm bells ringing and my conclusion was that my IP address had been recorded and anyone logged into SL from the same IP Address and trying to enter that region was also going to be caught up in this incident.  Are we remembering yet the RedZone fiasco from the not so distant past?  How IP Addresses were being captured and then recorded in a database to stop, what was publicised at the time, anyone from using ALTs to return to a location they had been barred from?

 

I then looked up the owner of the place and found it to be a guy by the name of (NAME WITHELD TO CONFORM TO PRIVACY LAWS).  I read his profile, which clearly stated to send a note card as IMs were often capped (busy guy I thought).

 

After a day, he still hadn't got back to me, when I suddenly saw he was online, so I IM'd and sent another note card to him.  After some time, he eventually replied saying he'd received my first note card, but was too busy to reply and directed me to a website where I was supposed to submit a ticket to try and resolve my problem.  Well, this website stipulated I had to enter my email address to complete the form.  Now, I have nothing to hide, but I'll be dammed if I'm going to give out my personal email address to complete strangers.  You hear far too many stories of private email addresses being collected then sold on to large companies so they can spam you with junk mail hoping you will buy some rubbish from them.

 

I IM'd him again explaining I was not willing to go through all this nonsense and freely hand over my email address to a stranger.  He told me he had 18 sims he was running  (wow, must be a big earner in SL then I thought..... not!!!).  I explained I ran over 100 sims and would still take the time if one of my customers was experiencing problems and needed my help.  He then told me he would pass on this incident to one of his staff and they would be in touch with me.  That was 3 days ago now and still no contact.

 

Since then I have been carrying out a little experiment, from the advice of a friend of mine.  I simply restarted my modem and router, which then gave me a new IP Address.  My daughter also assisted by then logging in with her avatar and again attempted to teleport to (SITE NAME WITHELD TO CONFORM TO PRIVACY LAWS).  This time she arrived there no problem whatsoever.  I then logged in and attempted to teleport there, but no luck.  I still got the message telling me I am banned from the region (still have no idea why though!).  My daughter then tried again to teleport there.  This time she received the message telling her she didn't have access to that location... Are we seeing a pattern emerging here yet???

 

Three times we repeated this experiment and each time, after changing my IP Address, my daughter was able  to teleport to the location, but as soon as I then tried and received the proverbial 'YOU ARE BANNED' message, she was then unable to teleport back again, until we changed IP Address yet again.

 

The only logical conclusion, is that (SITE NAME WITHELD TO CONFORM TO PRIVACY LAWS) is using IP Address tracking software, which I thought was illegal?  but correct me if I'm wrong.  And at the end of it, I'm still none the wiser as to why I am banned in the first place.  (SITE NAME WITHELD TO CONFORM TO PRIVACY LAWS) website proclaims to be customer service focussed.  Doesn't appear so to me I'm afraid.  Perhaps they are forgetting, without customers, no business can possibly survive, and if they are using what I deem to be illegal software, then maybe we need to know about it and perhaps Linden Labs needs to investigate and take action to protect its residents privacy.

 

In conclusion, whatever the outcome of this farce is, I for one will NEVER again set a virtual foot on that sim or have anything to do with any business run by its owner.  They have lost a customer 'period' and also many of my friends and my own customers will no longer go there and part with their hard earned L$s.

 

There are a multitude of other very fine Gacha Yard Sale locations run by genuinely customer friendly/focused people (who are intelligent enough to know that it's you and I, the residents of SL that keep them in business) who will now benefit from my continued patronage, unlike '(SITE NAME WITHELD TO CONFORM TO PRIVACY LAWS)'.

 

Marcus Ansia

 

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One of the main underlying issues here is that the owner was not even prepared to look into the situation and provide a logical reason for why I had been suddenly banned, other than to direct me to his own web site which stipulated I had to enter my email address to resolve this issue.  So not only would he have my IP Address but also my email address, when a simple short investigation into what exactly had caused the situation to occur in the first place would have quickly resolved this.

Also, lets assume I had been using a public internet access point at the time (i.e. at a college or university perhaps), meaning everyone else who utilises that connection and quite possibly happen to be SL residents are also then penalised?

 

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there are lots of services offering disposable email addresses for situations like this, you might take advantage of one of those if you really want to pursue this. if they want to block large chunks of people from their regions based on weak assumptions, that's on them, they're paying the tier and get to be little Caesars on their turf.

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Yes, it does appear that the Sim in question is using some form of IP Address detection in order to establish a dynamic Ban list. Sadly as stated by Obvious, assuming someone has ill-intent simply because there they have more than one Avatar account on the same IP is a very poor assumption to make. When my son was living here at home, there were three of us with Avatar accounts logged into SL at times. Each of us also has various alts for business and personal reasons. But none of us has any desire nor interest in doing "bad things".

Yup, the Sim owner is exercising their right to allow and disallow whomever he wishes. But also yup, he's taken a stand that in the end analysis is earning him less income and more anger/broken relationships.

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I'm fully aware of the option to be able to create another email address.  But just for this purpose, doesn't that seem a little absurd and over the top, for what should have been a very quick and easily resolved situation.

It comes down to two basic issues here:

1. Customer service was not high on the priority list of this merchant.

2. Personal information is being recorded without the knowledge or consent of most residents.

I am fully aware that by connectiong to any media on a sim you are in fact providing your IP Address to obtain that connection, but its then my choice as to wether I decide to make that connection or not.  But to stealthily have that information taken without my knowledge or consent is a breach of personal privacy.  If a parcel/sim owner feels the need to utilise such a device, then a warning should be produced telling residents that by simply entering 'such and such' region, they are agreeing to having that information taken from them.  But no such warning is provided.

I think what so many people fail to grasp, is that any customer is handing over what is ultimately his or her real world money, which has more often than not been transferred into L$s, but still originates from real world income.  As such, should not a certain level of decency and morality come into play, which provides each and every one of us with the courtesy and privacy we are entitled to?

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The sim in question is one of very many that sell ex gacha items by renting out tables and stalls to sometimes dozens and dozens of other residents who either have a surplus of extra items in their inventory or are in fact utilising the desire of others you want to buy for themselves.  I believe, after further investigation, what may have occured (but I have no proof) is that a prim counter was being used.  I have seen such devices on sale which are quite elaborate in their functionality and not only count prims, but also return any excess that the person being counted has rezzed over their limited allowance.  Also, I have seen such a device that not only returns prims, but also then bans the owner of those prims as well.  Seem a little extreme?  Well yes it is.  After all, you only need to warn the renter they are over their prim allowance and then send back the extras.

I had just purchased 3 items in quick sucession, but only then did I pick all 3 up, after the final purchase, because they were all from the same sellers table.   So, I am wondering if this prim counter then registered I had these objects rezzed in world at this location and then immediately recorded I was over my prim limit, as I am not a seller there, I was merely a customer.  We all know how infallible scripted devices are now, don't we.... and yes that was a little sarcasm, fully intended.  But as I said, I have no proof of this as the owner concerned was obviously not prepared to go into any discussion or detail with me over the issue.  He did however confirm I was on the ban list, but gave no reason as to why.  Another friend then subsequently went there and confirmed that I am NOT on the normal parcel/sim ban list, so an additional security device of some kind is obviously being used.

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The quickest way to find out is to change your IP Address again then you TP to the sim first. If it allows you and then subsequently bans your daughter then it's most likely an IP Address type control device. However if it boots you right away then it has remembered you in particular and that would indicate something like the Prim Counter you describe.

But one thing I want to make clear here. The fact that a person's IP Address is being used to ban them is not an invasion of privacy. Your IP Address is included in every connection / conversation carried out on the Internet. As long as the Sim owner's device doesn't output the ban list for use by others then it's not violating the policy because it is not revealing IP Addresses.

For Sim owners those devices DO have a very valid use btw. It's very common for people to run up a fairly high debt on the Sim (overstay their rent, etc.) then when they get booted they return as some other Avatar. IP Address detection like that can alert the Sim owner that the person they are talking with is in fact already known to them under one or more other names.

As long as the Sim owner isn't sharing the info and isn't engaging in some form of Blacklisting across other Sims and Sim owners then they are simply defending themselves against being ripped off. Personally I think having the device auto-ban people is overly extreme in response but .. the Sim owner is free to make his own choices on how he responds to the "issue".

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We've tried this experiment several times now.

I change my IP address and my daughter's avatr is then able to enter the region no problem, but I am still banned if I try, so my name is on a blacklist.  But after I then attempt to enter the region, any further attempts by my daughter results in her getting the message... 'You are not authorised to enter this region'. So my IP address is again being used to group bar anyone else trying to then enter that region, obviously on the assumption that it MUST BE an alternative account of mine.

And yes, you are correct that only if personal information is then disclosed to a 3rd party is the person providing that information then in breach of privacy laws.  But does the law not also state that each individual is entitled to be provided with the details of any information that anyone holds on them, in whatever format it is held?  Therefore, if I ask why I was banned and for any personal information that is held about me to be provided, is that not a legal requirement by the holder of such information?

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Bringing this down to its very basic level, I visited a public market place, which I have visited many times before.  I saw 3 items I wanted.  I purchased those 3 items.  I then found I had been teleported home and places on a ban list.

I contacted the owner and explained what had happened and asked if he could look into it and resolve the issue.  He simply couldn't be bothered and to date still nothing has happened to provide me with the reason as to why it happened.  Therefore I can only draw the conclusion that there is no legitimate reason.  Maybe an eror did occur and the scripted device doing the monitoring and ejecting got it wrong.  But at the end of the day, we are talking about basic decent common courtesy and not assuming someone guilty before proven so.

I asked for an explanation.  I have not received one. 

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Marcus Ansia wrote:

We've tried this experiment several times now.

I change my IP address and my daughter's avatr is then able to enter the region no problem, but I am still banned if I try, so my name is on a blacklist.  But after I then attempt to enter the region, any further attempts by my daughter results in her getting the message... 'You are not authorised to enter this region'. So my IP address is again being used to group bar anyone else trying to then enter that region, obviously on the assumption that it MUST BE an alternative account of mine.

And yes, you are correct that only if personal information is then disclosed to a 3rd party is the person providing that information then in breach of privacy laws.  But does the law not also state that each individual is entitled to be provided with the details of any information that anyone holds on them, in whatever format it is held?  Therefore, if I ask why I was banned and for any personal information that is held about me to be provided, is that not a legal requirement by the holder of such information?

Forgive me if I'm being dense but .. you say that you change your IP Address and then your daughter is able to enter. But you haven't said that you try to enter before her, only that she enters first. Have you done it in this order:

 

 

  1. Reset modem and router to obtain new IP Address
  2. You attempt to enter Sim
  3. Daughter attempts to enter Sim

Reading what you posted directly, it appears to me that you've only run the test in this order:

 

 

  1. Reset modem and router to obtain new IP Address
  2. Daughter attempts to enter Sim
  3. You attempt to enter Sim

The order matters as the first Avatar to enter with a new IP Address *should* be allowed in, but the second Avatar with that same IP Address would be booted.

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1. I reset my modem and obtain new IP address.

2. My daughter then attempts to tp to the region and is able to enter.

3. I then attempt the tp and am told I'm banned.

4. My daughter then attempts the tp again and this time is told she has no access to the region so cannot tp there.

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Marcus Ansia wrote:

1. I reset my modem and obtain new IP address.

2. My daughter then attempts to tp to the region and is able to enter.

3. I then attempt the tp and am told I'm banned.

4. My daughter then attempts the tp again and this time is told she has no access to the region so cannot tp there.

Try the test again only you enter at step 2 instead of your daughter. I'm betting that you can enter and that she will be banned when she tries to enter at step 3.

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No, not going to happen.  I think I've been more than fair in trying to get an explanation from the owner.  therefore I will NEVER even attempt to set my virtual foot at that location again and neither will a great deal of others who are privy to the actual full details of the incident.

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Understood. I was trying to determine exactly what type of information the Sim owner was using. If it allowed you in with a new IP Address before your daughter tried then I would know conclusively that it is an IP Address tracker. But I respect your lack of desire to proceed further.

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We have actually tried that scenario, where I change my IP address and then I'm the first one to attempt to tp to the location.  But I still get the banned message and then my daughter tries and is told she does not have access to that location.  Only way she can get there is if I reset the IP address and she tp's theres first.    So I think we had alreday covered all possible permutations.  But I thank you for your advice and your contribution to this posting.  Its been very much appreciated.

 

I would like to add one (hopefully) final word though.  I still enjoy Yard Sales, very much.  And if anyone sees me at one, you can assume it's not the one in question, because as previously mentioned, I WILL NEVER attempt to go to that location again, or have anything to do with any business this particular owner may be involved in.

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The only thing about this that remains a question (to me, anyway) is what they are using to get your IP address. Did you try all this with media disabled in the viewer? If so, and if they still got your IP address, then they're doing something a bit unusual, and worth further investigation. They could, for example, use parcel audio, too, but that's much trickier. And there have been reports (unconfirmed AFAIK) that voice, too, can leak IP addresses, but that should have been plugged long ago, if it was ever true.

I realize it's very annoying and invasive and rude of the merchant to do any of this by whatever means, but it would be kind of important to know if there are new exploits in use, beyond what I suspect: the same ol' snakeoil hawked at ridiculous cost by one with sell-assessed "skills".

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I always have media permanently disabled in my viewer, except for when I am on my on sim.  Then I know where the stream is originating from.

An IP tracker of sorts is the only thing that makes any sense here, otherwise, why would another person (my daughter) also find she is unable to teleport to that location immediately after I had tried (several times as explained in detail earlier).  therefore, my name must be on some sort of list which then logs not only my attempt to tp there, but also my IP address at the time.

Maybe the use of such a device is not lawfully illegal, but to do this stealthily in my opinion is immoral.  And the fact the merchant involved doesn't have the backbone to explain why I was even banned in the first place stinks of cowardice, deceit, and a feeble attempt to cover up his underhanded actions.

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Marcus Ansia wrote:

An IP tracker of sorts is the only thing that makes any sense here...

Agreed, but they're not magic. That they're using something other than media is moderately worrisome... although I forget now what kludge the one with "skills" used for her contraption. (Y'all know the thing I'm talking about, right? Somebody must remember how the stupid thing works -- for absurdly small values of "work".)

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This is to the discussion as a whole, just tagged onto your last post, Qie. :)

What I don't understand from this whole thing is *why* the OP is being banned to begin with, realizing that the OP himself has contacted the sim owner to find out as well.  From the info provided the OP is simply purchasing Gacha items from a yard sale area and out of the blue got banned; there is no indication that the OP was doing anything at all wrong.  Even if he returned with alts from the same IP to purchase items why the ban?

Maybe I'm missing something here and I do realize a parcel/estate/sim owner can ban for any or no reason, but this whole situation just sounds wierd. 

This falls under my - "Errrr...HUH???" category. ;)

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Right. The OP hypothesized somewhere above that it was because, having bought some items (sold as original) without picking them up right away, a prim limit was exceeded and some automatic banning kicked in. Seems unlikely, since resale of original items is apparently the whole business of the place. Also, modern scripts could just return the stuff to whomever rezzed it, no fuss, no bother, but it's possible the place is stuck in a time-warp using old scripts.

An alternative explanation might be that the OP got swept up in an IP ban of somebody else who once had their dynamically assigned address. The reason that's probably not what happened here is that one would expect the same to happen to the OP's daughter, but as I understand it, she doesn't get banned until the OP shows up on the parcel. That would be moderately intricate logic: One gets banned by name if one inherits the IP address of somebody who actually did something ban-worthy, and then when you get a different IP address you're still banned along with everybody else who shares that address, but those next-generation folks don't get the same degree of banning: they can't themselves trigger bans from new addresses, despite having been banned before. It could work that way, and in fact it might in fact slightly mitigate some of the inherent stupidity of the whole approach, but it sounds more like an accident than a planned feature.

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As I've previously stated, I contacted the merchant involved, but still, after now 4 days, I've had no contact from his staff, as he originally promised.  therefore I can only surmise he has something to hide and is now too embarrassed by the whole situation to correct whatever error took place.

I have visited this particular Yard Sale on so many occasions in the past that I've lost count, and made many purchases there.  To be tp'd home and found to then be on a ban list, if a simple mistake and one that was then corrected, I can live with. But to be completely ignored with no explanation or apology is disgusting.

Yes, of course, any parcel/sim owner has the right to ban or allow anyone they wish (or not) onto their property, but this is supposed to be a public place for people to shop for goodness sake.  I find it quite astounding how indifferent this merchant was to my situation and obviously believes my importance to his business is far too trivial to bother with. 

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I was agreeing with you that this whole thing just sounds bizarre per my comment:

What I don't understand from this whole thing is *why* the OP is being banned to begin with, realizing that the OP himself has contacted the sim owner to find out as well.  From the info provided the OP is simply purchasing Gacha items from a yard sale area and out of the blue got banned; there is no indication that the OP was doing anything at all wrong.  Even if he returned with alts from the same IP to purchase items why the ban?

:)

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The one really frustrating aspect to this fascical situation is that I am not allowed to actually name and shame this person on this Forum.  Pity, because it would serve to then warn many others how he chooses to conduct his business practices in here and shows a distinct lack of good moral judgement when dealing with his customers.

Too many think they are not bound by the same moral code of conduct that is (or at least should be) basic human nature in the real world.  To be fair and courteous to everyone we come into contact with.  But sadly that is often lacking in Second Life, because it seems to be more a case of, 'thanks for your money now get lost attitude'.

 

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