Mainland Revamp

[Knowl Paine]

I like to believe that most people will tend to do the right thing, when they are properly informed.

I agree, Bay City should have a notecard giver that informs Residents that, "this is the basic idea".

To sustain any real Regional growth, a region must have some definition of purpose or defined use.

 

I think it is important to mention that I support all types of Zoning. The popular approach here seems to be talking about what can't be done and how zoning will restrict activity.

Castles, Forest, History, Art, Wild West, I can think of hundreds of possible ideas.

 

For those who have been following the thread, the seed could be planted when a Region Owner uses their Bonus Mainland Tier credit and host a Showcase plot. The owner could use the land to promote or showcase their Region from a base on the Mainland (free, with terms).

The "idea" is meant to attract SL Residents with experience in developing regions. 

 

To: Indigo :smileyhappy:

 

 

[Vesper Kling]

I wish the tier wasnt this high, then i would buy more land. I built a community summer 2010 in the grid inWorldz (as I could afford a sim on that grid) and it became a wonderful scandinavian community mixed with an english village and a fantasy twist. The concept was quite a success for a while and it was easy to get renters (of all nationalities).

But eventually (after more than a year) ppl began longing for physics so they started moving back to SL, osgrid or quit totally summer 2011. Me too. Still i wish i had the funds to redo it here.

I got the inspiration from 3-4 Swedish sims we had for some years in SL. They were a mix between light commercial, residential, clubs and a major success. (though not on mainland sorry to say). Closed now =(

I really believe in this idea to try to theme/zone up mainland more, as there are a lot of living proof of today.

One major issue is that people wants Total privacy now and then, for different reasons, so that must be solved. I for exampel would like to be able to stay in my skybox and not be seen on minimap for instance. Is that possible to fix?  I dunno if everyone thinks about the opportunity to build high up in the air?? I know ppl can be invicible on their parcels nowadays but does everyone know that? I think this kind of information doesnt always get through. At least I have heard from friends that the privacy issue is one of the bigger one for my friends who chooses private land before mainland. Still this must be quite easy for LL to solve.

[Knowl Paine]

I would support lowering the Tier fee for Private Region Owners. Linden Lab created the Market, and they should have a responsibility to safeguard that market.

Very few people understand the role of Federal Regulatory Commissions. Linden Lab needs to play this role, by protecting the rate of return on the invested capital of Residents.

The Abandoned Land pricing schedule, set by LL, should not undermine the interest of Private Region owners.

We have two parties going on here, and one party needs to step to the side. I nominate LL, as the one party who should step to the side. LL sells Mainland because they have to (to recover abandoned land). The rate of return is already established in Use Fees, any returns from the sales of Mainland are superfluous to LL.

A Private Region Owner may sell land, because their SL livelihood depends upon it.

I am not saying that LL should not make money on Mainland sales; I'm saying they could make (take) less, by taking the difference collected from Mainland sales and applying that in the form of a reduction for Private Region Owners.

Reducing Tier for Private Region Owners, would help to level the playing field in the King's game, when the King is a player in His own game.

 

 

 "If you have nothing to hide; what are you worried about"?

                        " I'm hiding my privacy "

 

People who do not respect the privacy of others, should not be allowed to have privacy for themselves.

 

I'm not sure if the Mainland will ever have the level of privacy found in isolated Private Regions. Second Life is a Community, and for that reason, Residents are equipped to be social.

Some progress has been made in making greater levels of privacy available to Mainland Residents. I'm not sure how effective the features are because I have not yet used those features.

I have owned numerous Mainland plots, I visited one plot almost everyday for a Month and never had even 1 visitor. I purchased the land because the region was virtually empty.

 

 

I'm Pro-Privacy, but don't tell anyone that I said that. I want to keep that private. 

 

 

Edit: typos, clarify

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Knowl Paine wrote:

 

The Abandoned Land pricing schedule, set by AL, should not undermine the interest of Private Region owners.

We have two parties going on here, and one party needs to step to the side. I nominate LL, as the one party who should step to the side. LL sells Mainland because they have to. The rate or return is already established in Use Fees, any returns from the sales of Mainland are superfluous to LL.

A Private Region Owner may sell land, because their SL livelihood depends upon it.

I am not saying that LL should not make money on Mainland sales; I'm saying they could make (take) less, by taking the difference collected from Mainland sales and applying that in the form of a reduction for Private Region Owners.

 

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Why them?

If anyone should get a reduction there - reduce the costs for other mainlanders.

Private regions are less profitable, more splintered, harder to support, harder to establish consistent policy and harder to maintain the larger community with.

The viability is on mainland. And any sales LLs makes there, should benefit there. If private gets any reduction, let it come from private region sales.

 

[Qie Niangao]

If one has faith in the cost accounting, it would be best for neither product to subsidize the other.  If there's not enough demand for the current quantity of private estates, or Mainland, at the same profit margin, then whichever product isn't making its numbers should shrink to fit the demand.  

Of course, it's a lot simpler to flip the switch on a private estate sim than it is to shed a continent.

And anyway, we don't see the real accounting, so it's hard to guess how much more or less support cost is incurred by one or the other product, nor how much of the Mainland is a loss center required by strategy (sandboxes perhaps, and Linden Village, infoHubs, etc.), nor untold other factors that would need to be considered for a fair comparison.

Incidentally, Tyche Shepherd just published another quarterly installment of her superb Mainland census.  For those interested in the Mainland, it's required reading.

[Knowl Paine]

We are not growing corn here.

Nobody can replace the content of the people who are no longer in SL.

 

 

[Knowl Paine]

I'm talking about Mainland that LL sells through the Abandoned Land Recovery process and auctions.

I like to view the World Map, there are a lot of private regions. I think the private regions would be larger than the Mainlands if the private regions were all connected.

 

I think you listed some excellent reasons why Private Regions should get a Tier reduction.

Resident who own whole Mainland Regions would qualify for the Reduction. Any reduction would be (1) per Account and not for every region owned. The quantity of funds would be limited. In the event of a surplus, additional multiple reductions per account, could be offered.

........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

I have 100 Eskimos on the phone, they want to know what your demands are; how should they manage their Community?

What is best for people you've never met, land you've never walked, and cost you do not have to pay?

 

I believe that zoning, or themes, or any other label that a person likes, would offer the Residents of a zoned region, the opportunity to manage their own community.

 

 

Edit: typo

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

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Knowl Paine wrote:

We are not growing corn here.

Nobody can replace the content of the people who are no longer in SL.

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I don't agree with that -- creators come and go all the time, and have since the beginning. But I also don't detect any discernible relevance to how the Lab should price Mainland tier vs Estate fees.

And I still maintain that there's no advantage in either product subsidizing nor acting as a loss-leader for the other... and that we have no way of knowing for sure whether there's any difference in margin between the two.

[Knowl Paine]

"Creators come and go"

Just like CEO's. M. Linden might agree with that.

When will be it be your time to go? How will I know when it is my time to go?

The relevance is in that LL is playing in their own game.

The King makes all the Rules, and then plays in his own game. Does the King like to lose?

I own Mainland, I don't support the whole Region, my Tier fee reflects that.

 

The apples are getting mixed with the oranges here.

Any Resident who Owns a Whole Region is on one side of the fence. Linden Lab is one the other side of the fence.

LL sells Abandoned Land. They sell it because it is the only current method of recovering the Land.

LL can afford to leave a Region empty because they are the Host, and their Cost is at Cost. If LL had to pay it's own Tier, LL would be bankrupt tomorrow.

 

In Residents vs. Residents, I agree, it doesn't matter where a Resident owns a Whole Region, it can be on the Mainland, or on a Region not connected to the Mainland.

When LL sells land for 1L$ per meter, LL is fixing Land prices and destroying the Free Market.

For funds received from abandoned land sales, which may be above and beyond the cost of time, labor and materials, any superfluous funds should be applied in the form of a credit or Tier reduction for Whole Region Owners.

The question has always been, "where is the money going to come from", I suggest that we recycle what we already have.

How many times has LL sold that Land on the mainland? What are we doing here. 

 

 

I'm only exploring ideas that I think would help SL.

[Qie Niangao]

Maybe I'm getting closer to understanding what you're saying, I'm not sure.  I understand this part:

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When LL sells land for 1L$ per meter, LL is fixing Land prices and destroying the Free Market.

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Vast amounts of Mainland remain abandoned for sale by LL at L$1/sq.m. because they're simply not worth L$1/sq.m. on the current market.  Standard-issue landlocked 512s go for 80% less than that these days.  

I don't think that's a good situation, but those L$1/sq.m. parcels that we all know will never sell at that price, if anything, those are distorting the market in the form of inflating prices: effectively removing that land from the market supply altogether.  

A more "free market" approach would be to automatically place every sq.m. of abandoned land to auction as soon as it's abandoned.  But I think we'd like that situation much less.  

Rather, I suspect we'd prefer LL to intervene more, to further distort the "free market" by excluding even more land from that market.

An argument could be made for that.  I know there are some efforts to use the current Mainland surplus as an opportunity to improve LDPW infrastructure, when it's achievable.  It's difficult, however, without exercising a kind of "eminent domain" over private holdings that get in the way of such projects.  I don't think the Lab is willing to do that, but it might make sense.

Or they could stop all sale of abandoned land until average sale prices rise to some target level.  Of course, that would be very explicitly manipulating the market. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but we surely couldn't pretend that any "free market" was involved.

[Knowl Paine]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

LL should Host Second Life.

Membership fees and land use fees should be structured to be the primary funding source.

There shouldn't be a need for all the extra curricular profit questing by LL.

 

 

 

 

[161488303349]

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Knowl Paine wrote:

When LL sells land for 1L$ per meter, LL is fixing Land prices and destroying the Free Market.

 ...

 I'm only exploring ideas that I think would help SL.

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ideally

abandoned mainland should automatic go to auction with a 0$ reserve (after the reclamation grace period) regardless of parcel size. when its sold (if it sells) then linden gets a minimum 1-months worth of tier for it each and everytime is flipped

a 0$ reserve will actual breathe life back into the mainland i think. more occupancy and more land agents trying their luck. probably start pushing prices up generally overall. auctions do that most times, specially no reserve ones, as everyone likes a bargain even if they dont know what to do with it afterwards

 when common mainland is going for 0.1$ pm and linden are setting 1.0$ pm reserve then thats not a bargain

[Koltari]

I always wondered what the idea was about waterland being for sale on Mainland. Was it for those who already had land above sealevel to buy to ensure they'd own some sea? Atm it just a lot of platforms on top of water looking very out of place ruining the view of those who own proper land. If they'd choose to rez a houseboat or similar or atleast rezzed their house in the sky out of sight then fine but without any rules it seems most go for the easy solution and res a house on top of water. :matte-motes-bored:

I do love the idea of Mainland though, and I surely like making it look pretty the land I own. It is a challenge and it makes SL more interesting to me. But I have come to terms that people have different tastes and certainly some really don't care how their parcel look at all. Many live in the sky. I wish they'd just spend a tiny amount of prims on trees or some grass down on ground just to be nice to the neighbors on ground. :matte-motes-bashful-cute:

 

[Qie Niangao]

Yeah, there's a lot of clutter on Mainland water parcels.  I've seen quite imaginative underwater builds, but they're rare. Instead we see a lot of those hideous sculpty "islands" out in the middle of the water, screaming "n00b" just as much as some silly Estate sims that are carved into little rectangular islands, one per parcel (presumably so that every renter gets surrounded by "beach").

It's amazing what crap people will accept as a desirable building site.

I think the continent-design Linden finally realized that this wasn't working very well, by the time Zindra came around.  There are still some all-water parcels, but a lot more sims had parcels that either ended at the water line or were otherwise protected from being sliced-up into any water-only parcels.

Obviously the best shoreline -- and by far the most valuable -- borders on Linden protected water.

[Zero Starchild]

I have always rented or owned land on private islands or sims and recently bought some excellent land on the mainland of Corsica right on the water. I was lucky to find it as I know it is normally expensive but I found a quarter sims worth for only 9000 L and grabbed it. I have protected Linden sea on my beach and enables me to sail all along the coast of Corsica all the way to the Blake Seas. I am now in love with the mainland because of the diversity and great exploring I can do by foot or by sea or by air.

The area I am in is mostly nice homes and beach and the people in the area seem to take pride in the area too so I count my blessings.

Travelling around the mainland of Corsica I find it so much nicer than I remember it being way back in 2007 when I first came to SL. I think things have improved on the mainland a great deal.