Is the Sky Just One Big Sandbox?

[Israel Schnute]

Never thought of it as a sandbox as much as a trash heap when I was first born. But I am now finding out there's a spammy shyster landbarron all over the mainland that seems to put all of their "estates" in the sky now too, make the land look abandoned, and I guess get a massive profit margin out of the deal.

I'll never look at hearts as a symbol of love again.

I wish there was a way for an unofficial clearing for air traffic, at x feet that most people would follow.  however it's impossible to get the word out, and too many people act like noobs when it comes to land settings.

[Perrie Juran]

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Israel Schnute wrote:

Never thought of it as a sandbox as much as a trash heap when I was first born. But I am now finding out there's a spammy shyster landbarron all over the mainland that seems to put all of their "estates" in the sky now too, make the land look abandoned, and I guess get a massive profit margin out of the deal.

I'll never look at hearts as a symbol of love again.

I wish there was a way for an unofficial clearing for air traffic, at x feet that most people would follow.  however it's impossible to get the word out, and too many people act like noobs when it comes to land settings.

---

The Hearts are not the only thing, just the most ubiquitous and obvious.

There are still many clubs and store with flat prims with their name on them set at about 300 meters in order to show up on the world map.

Maybe the ad farm policies need to be revisited.

They certainly do violate the heart of a lot of the ad farm policies:

"All advertisers must make a reasonable attempt to fit in with the local area and to respect the wishes of Residents living nearby wherever possible. Linden Lab can and will, at its sole discretion, ask you to remove or modify unacceptable advertising-related content."

"If you're engaged in something that clearly has a negative and widespread impact on the Mainland experience, we will request that you stop."

However, they are using this 'loophole:'

 

I have several mainland store locations with signs above them; am I affected?

No. This policy change is not aimed at personal advertising of this kind.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:About_ad_farms_and_network_advertisers

 

eta:shpelling

[Qie Niangao]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

The Hearts are not the only thing, just the most ubiquitous and obvious.

There are still many clubs and store with flat prims with their name on them set at about 300 meters in order to show up on the world map.

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I didn't realize folks had a problem with such signs. Coincidentally just this past week, I made the prim Map "sign" for Hotel Chelsea in Lanestris.  (I'm just a neighbor and sometimes attend live music there.) Here's how it looks on the Map of that sim:

I hadn't thought anyone would object -- in fact, I was feeling rather pleased with myself for the effect, at only 13 Land Impact. :smileyembarrassed:

I'm not a huge fan of what the "heart pox" does to the map (although I have heard good things about that outfit from their tenants). It honestly never occurred to me to compare it to adfarming, so now I'm all befuddled. 

[Perrie Juran]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

The Hearts are not the only thing, just the most ubiquitous and obvious.

There are still many clubs and store with flat prims with their name on them set at about 300 meters in order to show up on the world map.

---

I didn't realize folks had a problem with such signs. Coincidentally just this past week, I made the prim Map "sign" for Hotel Chelsea in Lanestris.  (I'm just a neighbor and sometimes attend live music there.) Here's how it looks on the Map of that sim:

I hadn't thought anyone would object -- in fact, I was feeling rather pleased with myself for the effect, at only 13 Land Impact. :smileyembarrassed:

I'm not a huge fan of what the "heart pox" does to the map (although I have heard good things about that outfit from their tenants). It honestly never occurred to me to compare it to adfarming, so now I'm all befuddled. 

---

I'm befuddled too.

You run into a 'where do you draw the line' issue here.

When I look at the map of the world what I want to see is the "world"  Your sign doesn't block that.

Most of the signs are small, like yours, only parcel sized.  They are not what I would deem as obnoxious. Sometimes though you do run into clusters of them.

I simply don't know where to strike a balance.

If it wasn't for those hearts all over the map I'd probably consider it more of a non-issue.

One issue that has been brought up but I haven't confirmed personally is that those signs are interfering with shadows on the ground for those who enable that function.  I don't use shadows myself for lag reasons.  Also I don't know much about how they work.  For instance, at what height does an object cast a shadow on the ground?

(As far as the "heartpox" group I have one friend who rents from them and she is happy.  But several months ago there was an issue with one of their spots making a very important water channel almost impossible to navigate due to their security.  When asked if they could ease the situation they refused with what I heard was very strong language.  (There is a long thread about it).  Someone in the sailing community was finally able to rent the spot and turned off the security orb.  But that is a separate issue)

[Qie Niangao]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

One issue that has been brought up but I haven't confirmed personally is that those signs are interfering with shadows on the ground for those who enable that function.  I don't use shadows myself for lag reasons.  Also I don't know much about how they work.  For instance, at what height does an object cast a shadow on the ground?

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I have shadows enabled pretty much always, and as best I can tell, once I render something, it casts shadows, even from thousands of meters up -- and it does not cast shadows until I've rendered it. So, the higher up something is, the less likely it is that one has cammed up and rendered it, so the less likely it will cast shadows. I rarely see the heartpox shadows, for example, nor most of the others (which may be because I generally keep a short draw distance), But this is all anecdotal and unscientific, so an expert may correct this informal impression.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

The Hearts are not the only thing, just the most ubiquitous and obvious.

There are still many clubs and store with flat prims with their name on them set at about 300 meters in order to show up on the world map.

---

I didn't realize folks had a problem with such signs.

It honestly never occurred to me to compare it to adfarming, so now I'm all befuddled. 

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Oh I hate those signs on the map with a passion... I've heard plenty of people express annoyance at them.

It didn't occur to me either... but now that it has I may file some test ARs of a few of them.

I'm not really sure it qualifies as a sign above a shop...

 

[Qie Niangao]

Let us know how it goes. If the Lindens agree with you, then I'll be glad to remove that lettering -- and to AR every heartpox on the Map until they're all gone.

I must confess, though, that I'm still pretty astonished that some folks dislike these things so much, but more than that, having dedicated a bunch of my SL history to battling adfarms, I'm just gobsmacked that these are being seen as remotely similar.

[Perrie Juran]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Let us know how it goes. If the Lindens agree with you, then I'll be glad to remove that lettering -- and to AR every heartpox on the Map until they're all gone.

I must confess, though, that I'm still pretty astonished that some folks dislike these things so much, but more than that, having dedicated a bunch of my SL history to battling adfarms, I'm just gobsmacked that these are being seen as remotely similar.

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Until the Hearts started proliferating I never really considered them a problem. 

Like I said, yours wouldn't  bother me at all. 

Linden Lab never prohibited advertising.  They just set some guidlines for it because some of it had become abusive.

I guess the issue here really will be "Is this an acceptable use of the World Map," or an acceptable use policy.

But really, if it weren't for the Heartpox, I'd have called it a non-issue.

[Perrie Juran]

On a side and what I consider a bit of an amusing note, anyone TP'ing to one of those Heartpoxes to find out what they are will probably find themselves ejected and banned from the parcel.

And if they are using a web based system that ban may be getting applied to all their properties.  I know when I fly or sail I have to take great care not to bump into them anywhere. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Until the Hearts started proliferating I never really considered them a problem. 

 

I guess the issue here really will be "Is this an acceptable use of the World Map," or an acceptable use policy.

But really, if it weren't for the Heartpox, I'd have called it a non-issue.

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That's a bit like how it went for adfarming too.

One or two billboards was actually nice - made things feel normal. But then when they were EVERYWHERE and sims were full of hundreds of 16m lots with 50m tall adboards...

There was a minor issue to deal with.

 

As for the map - I want the map to be a map. So I can see the world. Not get spammed.

And while I generally say peole build what they have a right to build on their land... Cluttering the sky with 'ad farm map spam' makes SL uglier and hard to use - both the map becomes hard to use, and moving around in the world itself.

 

[Coby Foden]

Last year I created a bug report about the megaprim heart symbols which cover multiple whole regions in the map.

I don't know know are Linden Lab going to do anything about those symbols or not. Anyway, it would be nice if the map indeed was a map and not be covered with region wide (256 x 256 meters) ad symbols. Maybe they could make a layered map, one layer with all the ads and other layer without the ads? Then people could select on the map what they would prefer to see.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-4610

Created: 28 November 2013
Resolution: Accepted - 4 December 2013
Updated: 15 March 2014
Assignee: Unassigned

It seems that they are not in a hurry to resolve this matter.  :matte-motes-yawn: :smileyindifferent:

[Qie Niangao]

In fact, the individual region maps are generated in two layers, one with basic terrain and the other with objects. An example of the terrain:

Can you guess what the dirty adfarmers have done to that map?

 

[Coby Foden]

Yes, that's true the maps indeed are generated in two layers - one with the terrain only, and the other with terrain and objects. In earlier viewers it was possible to select in the world map which one to show, but not anymore.

However, for example in Firestorm viewer's minimap there are options to show different things by selection, such as:

• Terrain textures
• World map textures
• Objects
• Physical objects
• Scripted objects
• Temp on rez objects

I wonder why the world map does not have those options.

PS.
In the world map nicely made letterings are not very disturbing - like yours for example, actually they are quite ok. It's the whole region covering megaprim ads (like the infamous hearts :smileywink:) which are an eaysore in the world map.

[CaptainJack Grauman]

I found a very high building standing on the ground (a square stone-built tower): Happy Campingland Castle::.., Zeuzera (109, 112, 1967) at its top; nearly 2 kilometers high! Is this the highest known?

 

[RowanRiverSong]

I've noticed here lately large areas that are kind of a pink/red color.  No ads on them but entire areas this color. Anyone know what that means?

I also have to wonder about the thinking of people who have land for sale and banlines up, so you can't look at it.  There's nothing on the property but they have banlines up.  How does that make any sense?

[Coby Foden]

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RowanRiverSong wrote:

 

I also have to wonder about the thinking of people who have land for sale and banlines up, so you can't look at it.  There's nothing on the property but they have banlines up.  How does that make any sense?

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It could be just a mistake: the land hasn't been for public access (this raises the ban lines). When they put it for sale they naturally should have ticked the "Allow public access" but they forgot to do so.

(Or maybe they didn't want all the people looking for land leaving their dirty shoe prints on the land? Or maybe there was some other similarly silly reason? :smileyindifferent:)

[Perrie Juran]

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RowanRiverSong wrote:

I've noticed here lately large areas that are kind of a pink/red color.  No ads on them but entire areas this color. Anyone know what that means?

I also have to wonder about the thinking of people who have land for sale and banlines up, so you can't look at it.  There's nothing on the property but they have banlines up.  How does that make any sense?

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If you are referring to what I think you are the whole SIM is tinted pinkish.

If you look closely you will see a message that reads "SIM Offline" the bottom left of the SIM.

You'll see that when SIMs are being restarted.

(Sometimes once the SIM is back up the info on your Map takes a relog to clear that pinkish texture).

[RowanRiverSong]

Thanks I did look and noticed that the sim was offline.  The things one doesn't learn when just flying around. LOL  Thanks again for the answers.

[RowanRiverSong]

Hard to say why people do what they do.  It always makes me laugh... put up a property for sale but don't let anyone on that property.  Wonder what happens if it sells are you then banned from your own property (J/.K)? LOL

 

[knilly Wallifers]

As others have mentioned derender one option. In addition, I have found a very polite IM to the landowner may work - many time these itrems are a result of old land setting that allow anyone to rezz and the current owner may not realize what is up in the sky. To help with this you can right click on the items and go to edit see who / what group owns items. You may provide that info to the landowner (if it is not landowners things). Even if it is their things you may still bring it to their attention and remind them that cleaning up will free extra prims they may need.

Don;t forget, you may want to check your own land to see that there are no object that are not yours. Do this in parcel details, objects. I sometimes wonder if future Sl archeologist may be digging up long lost items.

[Sabia Innovia]

I call that stuff "space junk." It's kind of like old satellites and other junk circling the earth in RL! LOL :matte-motes-tongue: