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Honored Resident
Veronika Larsson
Posts: 44

Yet Another Discussion of Chat Log Disclaimers...

I know this has been discussed but I have a different question about so-called "chat disclaimers" that people post in their profiles.  Here's a sample:

"Chat Log: Chat are logged to harddisc and that I will use the logs in any way I feel suitable including filing reports. By talking to me you automatically give your consent to this, having read or not having read these statements.   This releases me from liability per SL's TOS."

Merely stating this in your profile does NOT release you from liability of Second Life's Terms Of Service, which forbid sharing IMs in-world without the express permission of all parties involved.

My question is different: Why do these chat disclaimers persist?  I have told several people that their disclaimers are 100% null and void, but they don't believe me.  In fact, the number of profiles that contain these disclaimers seems to be growing, not shrinking; I see them everywhere I go (clubs, stores, recreation sims).  Convincing these folk that their disclaimers are worthless is like trying to convince the Pope there is no God (not that I've tried the latter, but I imagine it wouldn't be easy).

Follow-up question:  Does Linden Labs need to undertake an education campaign to let Second Life residents know, once and for all, that they are just courting trouble with these disclaimers? Or do you prefer, as some do, to have the disclaimers, since they are a clear "Drama Queen!" warning sign?  If Linden Labs undertakes an "education campaign", how should they do so?  I assume that the vast majority of residents don't read the Second Life forums nor even the grid status reports.  Perhaps a simple statement on your log-in screen that punctures the myth of "release from TOS liability" once and for all?

Honored Resident
Kyyrii Askari
Posts: 115

Re: Yet Another Discussion of Chat Log Disclaimers...

Reply to Veronika Larsson - view message

Veronika Larsson wrote:

I know this has been discussed but I have a different question about so-called "chat disclaimers" that people post in their profiles.  Here's a sample:

"Chat Log: Chat are logged to harddisc and that I will use the logs in any way I feel suitable including filing reports. By talking to me you automatically give your consent to this, having read or not having read these statements.   This releases me from liability per SL's TOS."

Merely stating this in your profile does NOT release you from liability of Second Life's Terms Of Service, which forbid sharing IMs in-world without the express permission of all parties involved.

My question is different: Why do these chat disclaimers persist?  I have told several people that their disclaimers are 100% null and void, but they don't believe me.  In fact, the number of profiles that contain these disclaimers seems to be growing, not shrinking; I see them everywhere I go (clubs, stores, recreation sims).  Convincing these folk that their disclaimers are worthless is like trying to convince the Pope there is no God (not that I've tried the latter, but I imagine it wouldn't be easy).

Follow-up question:  Does Linden Labs need to undertake an education campaign to let Second Life residents know, once and for all, that they are just courting trouble with these disclaimers? Or do you prefer, as some do, to have the disclaimers, since they are a clear "Drama Queen!" warning sign?  If Linden Labs undertakes an "education campaign", how should they do so?  I assume that the vast majority of residents don't read the Second Life forums nor even the grid status reports.  Perhaps a simple statement on your log-in screen that punctures the myth of "release from TOS liability" once and for all?

If I see these disclaimers put into user profiles I will most likely just IM them with "You realize that doesn't do anything, right?" or something to that effect.  I've seen it before, and they do nothing but cause trouble, and act as a "don't interact with me, I'm socially inept" button that should be pinned on their shirt.

Hopefully these users will look into what they are doing further than just "oh looky, this user has a TOS agreement!  Let me play lawyer!"

If logging in gives a quick message that TOS liability claims do nothing for users as you say, then perhaps that would work .

Perrie Juran
Posts: 9,843
Registered: ‎10-16-2009

Re: Yet Another Discussion of Chat Log Disclaimers...

Reply to Veronika Larsson - view message

I-see-dumb-people.jpg

Veronika Larsson wrote:

<snip>

My question is different: Why do these chat disclaimers persist? 

</snip>

because some people are just dumb.

New Resident
TheVeryFirst
Posts: 2

Re: Yet Another Discussion of Chat Log Disclaimers...

Reply to Veronika Larsson - view message

Fight fire with fire, not that there is any fire to fight.  But I thought it was funny.  This is in my profile.

This is a disclaimer to void your ToS disclaimer weather you read it or not.  And if you try to void my disclaimer of your disclaimer, then I void your disclaimer voiding my disclaimer voiding your disclaimer.  I further make it impossible for your disclaimer of my disclaimer to void your disclaimer able to void my disclaimer.

Posts: 477
Topics: 3
Blog Posts: 0
Ideas: 0
Solutions: 1
Registered: ‎09-04-2009

Re: Yet Another Discussion of Chat Log Disclaimers...

Reply to Veronika Larsson - view message

my head hurts now!

Willow Danube
Posts: 1,389
Registered: ‎06-13-2010

Re: Yet Another Discussion of Chat Log Disclaimers...

Reply to Veronika Larsson - view message

/me looking for Void

Hey! Hey!.. This person did not struck fear to your name anymore. Does that mean the curse is over?

Me guess there is always The Very First, huh?

Busy saving the world
Recognized Resident
AnnaMarieVivaldi
Posts: 5

Re: Yet Another Discussion of Chat Log Disclaimers...

Reply to Veronika Larsson - view message

I don't think people don't pay much attention to disclaimers. My disclaimer requires anyone reading it to buy me a pony.

...I'm still waiting for my pony.

p.s. I'm gonna name her Sparkle

Honored Resident
Elmo Clarity
Posts: 70

Re: Yet Another Discussion of Chat Log Disclaimers...

Reply to Veronika Larsson - view message

AnnaMarieVivaldi  wrote:

I don't think people don't pay much attention to disclaimers

Well, the most important people, Lindens, don't pay any attention to.

Void Singer
Posts: 7,475
Solutions: 64
Registered: ‎05-28-2009

Re: Yet Another Discussion of Chat Log Disclaimers...

Reply to Veronika Larsson - view message

Willow.Danube wrote:

/me looking for Void

Hey! Hey!.. This person did not struck fear to your name anymore. Does that mean the curse is over?

Me guess there is always The Very First, huh?

it was only my WHOLE name and that curse was lifted long ago....

@OP:

why does it persist? because people are stupid.... I don't mean ignorant... anyone can be ignorant, and really everyone is about one thing or another.... no I mean stupid as in "confronted with testable fact and still continue trying to argue otherwise". you see this a lot on technical topics on these forums... what some people think they know couldn't fill a thimble with facts, but it they say it loudly enough and often enough they think you'll believe it. and because of some of the groupthink that goes on.... peple do....

never trust people, only consider trusting individuals, always trust what you can verify for yourself

- Farewell to your ports and good luck to you all
Posts: 477
Topics: 3
Blog Posts: 0
Ideas: 0
Solutions: 1
Registered: ‎09-04-2009

Re: Yet Another Discussion of Chat Log Disclaimers...

Reply to Veronika Larsson - view message

pony sent with surprize inside!