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Elisheva Sopwith
Posts: 271

Re: SL Submissives: Is it who they are or what they do?

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message

Smoovious Aloix:

As for the BDSM'ers... many of us here are RL lifestylers... and we just get so damned disgusted at all of the point-and-click push-button remote-control poser-owners that just flood SL...

I HATE WHEN I GO ON SL SEX SIMS AND PEOPLE ARE TYPING AND USING POSEBALLS LOL

I respectfully submit that if you were having such thrilling red hot rl kinky sex, you really wouldn't give a sailor's tug how other people are getting their rocks off. I know I stopped getting irritated on matters of sexual principle that had no effect on me whatsoever once I got my rl sex life back.

Honored Resident
Lias Leandros
Posts: 99

Re: SL Submissives: Is it who they are or what they do?

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message

Back in 2006 I had a 'Tent Meeting' Baptist church on my island. A woman with a doctorate in religion would use the tent on Sundays to have themed religious events. Once a month we would host a service for SL submissives. Quite a few showed up and poured their hearts out. One on-going theme with them was saying how they joined SL to enjoy themselves and take control of something in their lives. They were quite angry and dissapointed with themselves for falling into the same type of relationship online as they had in RL.

Old habits are hard to break away from.

CLUB SCHOOL: Learn to Earn
Posts: 447
Registered: ‎10-20-2010

Re: SL Submissives: Is it who they are or what they do?

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message

Elisheva.Sopwith wrote:

I know I stopped getting irritated on matters of sexual principle that had no effect on me whatsoever once I got my rl sex life back.

This explains why Maddy is so cantankerous. I'll have her look for it again. She's never taken it out of the house, how hard could it be to find?

The ego to Madelaine's id since 1970.
"Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." - Mark Twain
Seicher Rae
Posts: 1,091
Registered: ‎08-15-2010

Re: SL Submissives: Is it who they are or what they do?

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message

Smoovious Aloix wrote:

As for the BDSM'ers... many of us here are RL lifestylers... and we just get so damned disgusted at all of the point-and-click push-button remote-control poser-owners that just flood SL...

I know of several potential subs, who wanted to experiment with their submission, but ended up getting stuck with one of the posers, who just killed whatever longing they had for the lifestyle.

You can see them typically preying on the newbies who don't know any better.

The posers way outnumber us, and there are posers on both sides.

Us RL lifestylers won't settle for someone just playing a game on SL... we're not here to enterain them.

I can't speak for the other lifestylers, but when I speak in those terms, I'm talking about someone who is doing more than just playing slave...

Oh heck, might as well make another response, I'm here anyway!

Yeah, what you've said. I consider myself to be 'one of you' but so tired of the posers. Then there are the people who assume all sorts of things once you say "D/s". That's a whole nuther topic...the "Doms" or vanilla guys who have dabbled in D/s who then make all kinds of stupid assumptions about who I am, what I believe, what my motivations are, etc etc. based on me saying "sub". It is annoying. Sub is who I am but I'm getting the desire to explore it in SL just beaten out of me (heh, and not in a good way).

If people would just admit to RPing that would be one great service to all! There's no problem in RPing, in my opinion. But the real trouble is when someone swears up and down it isn't RPing and then it turns out that is all it is. Communication in SL is all we have. Communication and trust in D/s is so important, so by leaving that little tidbit out (just RPing) it kinda makes a great recipe for things imploding.

I'm looking for a convent for subs who are still subs but going into seclusion out of frustration and fed-up-ed-ness. (Oh, non-Christian sub convent too.)

Honored Resident
Katarina Malthus
Posts: 474

Re: SL Submissives: Is it who they are or what they do?

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message

That is funny on so many different levels.

::error
Seicher Rae
Posts: 1,091
Registered: ‎08-15-2010

Re: SL Submissives: Is it who they are or what they do?

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message

Katarina Malthus wrote:

That is funny on so many different levels.

And bizarre.

Honored Resident
Vitellius Dionysus
Posts: 50

Re: SL Submissives: Is it who they are or what they do?

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message

I think that there enough different types of people in Second Life to accomadate myriad roles in a relationship where the variables include dominance and submission or slavery.   I don't find fault with the labels other use in terms of self labeling but that's just me.  What I do find amusing however are those hypermasculine profiles one sees here and there which can be aplied to male and female dominant profiles.  We've all seen them "I don't take any crap.  I have a reigstered slave her slave registration number is 123456-abc-12345.  If you want to serve me get on your knees and crawl to me.If you can''t do that, keep walking.  I'm the real deal.  I am in fact GOD in my world!" Blah blah blah.

How can that not be funny?

I think that whatever roles are agreed upon between a dominant and submissive/slave in the scope of a relationship based in Second Life are agreed upon between, or should be agreed upon by those involved.  I personally don't care for self identified submissives.  I do prefer slave personalities.  I don't feel the urge or need to cast them aside like yesterday's trash and I'm not psychologically sadistic enough to do so.  I always discuss a slave's preferences.  I use the term preference because utlimately you're right, Gianna, a slave has no choice.  It is entirely up to the dominant to respect the preferences of slaves or to discard them.  I'm personally not interested in traumatizing another person.  Knowing the preferences in a contractual arrangement before collaring them helps significantly in understanding the other person as whole, regardless of how he or she comfortably self-identifies.

Recognized Resident
Lori Claremont
Posts: 6

Re: SL Submissives: Is it who they are or what they do?

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message

I'm also a submissive, both RL and SL and hesitate whenever anyone (including the sub who started this all off with her comment about submissives not having the right to ask for things) tries to come up with a single definition for so broad a subject as "what is a submissive".

What I can say, for myself, is that I have the right to ask for things (beg for is more accurate), and my Mistress has the right to decide whether or not she will grant me those things. It's what works for us. It might not work for others. I call myself her slave, because the right to decide is hers and hers alone, not mine. Does it match with your definition of slavery? Perhaps not, but again, it is the definition that works for us.

Each D/s relationship is different. Each Dominant is different, each submissive is different. The power dynamic between them is different and ranges anywhere from the mythical TPE to simple topping. Anyone who says they know the One True Way to define things or do things in BDSM (SL or RL for that matter) is, in my very humble opinion: delusional at best, dangerous at worst.

Yes, we need some common terminology, but the nuances of that terminology range wider than just about anything I've ever encountered in any other field. The best I've ever heard defines a submissive as someone who willingly yields some of their power to the Dominant. How much, what the parameters are, how that looks... all are subject to much discussion and debate all over the place. Ultimately though, it comes down to the question of how a particular Dominant and a particular submissive define it for their relationship.

As for the evil titlers mentioned in the previous thread, well, if my Mistress were to tell me to wear one, then I'd be wearing one and the issue of choice is already addressed. As is happens, she's directed me not to wear the one I did have for a time, so....

Oh and for the record: A submissive is who I am. Submission is what I do :-)

Member
Tolya Ugajin
Posts: 4,053

Re: SL Submissives: Is it who they are or what they do?

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message

Both

There are too many contextual nuances to do more than lay out one's own opinion, which some will agree with and some disagree with.  To me, a "submissive" in a BDSM context is simply someone who gives up power and control, specifically scene oriented, so it's "what they do."  It's about the kinky play, so I generally refer to folks who are only submissive on a scene to scene basis "kinksters" if I am trying to be specific.  In a D/s context, a "submissive" is someone who gives up power and control in an ongoing basis to a regular partner or partners.  Now you're more and more into "who they are" not just "what they do."  Such submission normally has limits, boundaries, etc. that may change over time and are the result of a certain amount of negotiation.  It may be "bedroom only" or "in private only" or what have you.  In an M/s context, the submissive (slave) has given up an extreme amount of control, generally in all situations, with modes and protocols defined and an extensive training program, and generally with some limits still in place.  Many folks lump M/s with TPE (Total Power Exchange) in which the slave has given up all control and choice except one, the decision to leave or stay, often called the "choice decision."  There are no defined limits - the slave does as commanded, or the relationship is ended. Well, that's the theory anyway - a smart Master, confronted by a slave who is unable or refuses to obey would likely try to find out exactly what has gone wrong.

Note, with each level there is an increasing amount of responsibility on the Dominant.  In a TPE relationship, for instance, the Master has nobody to blame but himself if he is unhappy with the relationship or anything to do with it.  The slave has given up all power to decide for herself (in actuality, some level of independent decision has to be maintained, but every such decision would comply with the expressed commands or anticipated wishes of the Master) so if she fails to please, it's the Master's fault for not properly teaching her to do so.  Also, since ultimately this has to be a symbiotic relationship, if the slave is driven to the point she leaves the relationship, that's not her fault, it's the Master's fault.  Being a "real" Master is a shitload of work and responsibility.  There is training, there is constant observation, there is constant reinforcement or encouragement.  LOL - being in a 24/7 TPE relationship is a 24/7 job!

Whether or not it is the submissive's place to ask for anything is up to the Mistress, and it's her job to instruct the submissive properly in this.  Some really don't care, some require that such things be phrased as statements and not requests.  "This girl needs to use the bathroom" as opposed to "May I go to the bathroom, Mistress."

Subs, and Doms, also naturally develop and shift in these ranges over time and between partners.

As for "real", "true" and "wannabes" - it's all BS.  I have an article I like to read from time to time, "The Truth Of D/s Lays Between The Master And His submissive" and I think that title says it all.  What works for one couple may be relationship poison for another couple.  A "true" Dom for you may be a horrible Dom for someone else.  A wannabe sub for you may be the perfect sub for another.   You may see someone else's sub and say "that sub is a wannabe and that master is a poser" when in fact the Master has done a thorough and excellent job of selecting a partner and training her to be perfect for him and she is behaving exactly as he wishes, making him the most happy mofo in Kinkyland.  Most people who say this of someone's else's sub do so because the sub refuses to just worship everyone who happens to call themselves Lord DomlyMasterExtreme and their pathetically fragile ego is bruised.  One thing is for sure - if a dominant is unhappy in a relationship, it's his own damned fault.  Find a better partner for you and/or do a better job training your partner for you or you are the one who is a wannabe and poser, not the sub.

Tolya (yeah, I know, TL:smileyvery-happy:R)

Charlie Sheen is my biyatch
Honored Resident
Lias Leandros
Posts: 99

Re: SL Submissives: Is it who they are or what they do?

Reply to Perrie Juran - view message

I find it very telling that you easily laugh at and dismiss the emotions of submissives that feel they are stuck in a reacurring bad relationship. Says alot about the state of D/s in SL.

CLUB SCHOOL: Learn to Earn