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DarranDax
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Hi folks.

I want what I suppose most people to want:

A small island or beach or maybe open water parcel to build on. From what I have read so far, if I buy a parcel outside mainland there will be another player with like godlike rights to my property. He can set the daytime, allow or forbid visitors and even delete my whole stuff if he´s angry. This is not only inacceptable, it´s quite the opposite of having an "own" place.

Another possibility is getting a whole region myself. That would cost me like 200$ per month. This is just ridiculous. I wouldn´t mind spending like 200-300$ plus a monthly fee for a first class game I really like, but 2400$ per year is beyond reality. The best AAA-games in the industry are like 80-100$ once and maybe 20$ per month for membership, and I´ve tried them all. That´s ok with me to cover costs and keep it running, but come on, you must be joking.

Second life has no quests, no dungeons, no storyline, it´s about interaction and building. And that´s what I want. So I assume the only possibility for me is getting a mainland parcel? Are there parcels considered mainland, who meet my needs, like tropical terrain and maybe 2000-4000 sqm? Will I be able to terraform and set my own rules when just owning such a small fraction? That would still be like 25$/month plus premium membership, but would be ok with me.

Thank you for any helpful answers.   

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First of all: Even if you rent land from another person, most of the things are NOT TRUE.

Yes, if you rent a small piece of land that is owned by someone else, they have more rights (estate rights) than you. But usually most people do not aim at annoying the crap out of their tendants...because who whould pay the rent then? However, of course bad things can happen. The person you are renting from could simply disappear and your land would vanish with them. What they can not do is delete your stuff. They can only send it back to your inventory, but not delete it. And with windlight settings your very own experiance is not tied to any regional setting (most sims have rather crappy boring settings anyway...)

In the past I have rented from well known places and lived on my own small parcel. I never had problems or started a fight. And I only paid my rent week for week, only as much as I could accept to lose, if the worst case would ever happen.

If you don't want to rent land, thats fine...but then your only option would be to go premium, so that you can get land directly from LL, without anyone inbetween. Thats the only possible way to be 100% independed and archieve what you are looking for.

 

And yes, I agree, land prices in SL are too damn high. But LL won't step back from it, as long as it brings in enough money.

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Hey Darran,

woah! Hold your horses, as you're touching a lot of different aspects with your question/rant. I'll try to untangle that a bit for you:

- An "island" in SL doesn't necessarily refer to an island shaped speck of land in the middle of the ocean but rather an unconnected (to the mainland) region (sim). If you buy one or more of those you can terraform it to whatever tickles your fancy. It is expensive tho.

- Beach property on mainland is also considered prime location ad rather expensive to buy. But that's a one-off investment, the following tier fees are the same no matter if beach or in the center of a continent, beach or mountain. Of course in order to keep a kinda resistant appearance of the continents your terraforming privileges are rather restricted. LL just don't want you to build a mountain at the beach.

- Renting from a landlord isn't usually as bad as you decribed it in your post. Particularly the bigger and established operations have all kinds of land in their portfolios, from whole sims down to 4096 m² parcels, homestead and full sims. And your personal rights as a renter differ from landlord to landlord. I was an estate manager once and I did wonder why ppl never read the covenant to gain knowledge about what they can do and what not. We left the daylight settings untouched but that may vary from landlord to landlord. BTW, that covenant is of course valid for the landlord as well as for you. We never deleted anything belonging to a renter just because one of us was angry. If we did, it was because the renter acted contrary to the covenant and angered his neighbors or something like that, or if he refused taking offensive or invading builds down or if the just disapperaed without paying their rent. But even in those cases we had to observe a grace period.

- A region for yourself would cost you much more than 200$/mth. That would be a homestead sim, which you can only officially purchase if you own at least one full sim already.

- SL isn't a game. For the very  reasons you mentioned.

- What you mean with "parcels considered mainland"? Mainland is mainland, island is island, there is as clear destinction and no consideration. Open the worldmap and zoom out ... more ... wee bit more ... even further ... ya, like that. See the handful (7 or so) big landmasses? Yessir, that be mainland. All the other little and bit  bigger specks are islands and private estates. To live there you gotta pay rent to a landlord. You don't need to be a premium member tho. There are not many private estates to be found on mainland, mostly you can obtain land only from LL, adn pay tier directly to them. You need to be a premium member (almost wrote premium mamba :smileyindifferent:) if you wanna own land on mainland.

- Okay, what you do to buy a parcel: first become a premium, then log in world, go to a quiet place and open Search. In search you'll find a tab about land, there you can specify what kinda land you want, how big and the purchase price. You'll get shown a list of available parcels that you can visit and look at. Take your time, don't fall for the first best unkempt lawn on the list.

ok, that's it, I'm done here. :smileyhappy:

 

 

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Welcome to Second Life Forums, Darran

I can only tell you about my own experiences during the six or so years I've been in Second Life.

Not once when I have rented from one of the private sim owners have I experienced anything negative, such as the land owner deleting my stuff, forbidding visitors.  For sure they do have rules, and covenants, so its easy enough to read up on what's allowed, and to have an idea whether renting from that particular person would be compatible with my own needs.

For a while I owned more than a sim's worth of mainland, prettied it up, got funky-looking shaped parcels that had been chopped and almost destroyed by ad-farmers put back together again, and sold them on. Any initial outlay and tier fees was easily recouped and all in all I haven't spent a fortune inworld over the years, so although you've calculated how much it would cost you a month to own a region, I have a totally different viewpoint.

The bottom line is, if Second Life doesn't offer you what you want, then you go look elsewhere, or you cut your cloth according to your pocket and make it work for you, as I have.

Currently I am not a premium member, and own absolutely nothing inworld apart from the contents of my inventory.  Real life constraints mean it just isn't financially worth it to me to invest more than a few Linden dollars here and there for, say, new outfits or gadgets that might be fun to play with when I do have the time.

Like I say, you can make it work for you, if you really think about what you want, and what you are willing to pay for.

You might, in time, find that you get-together with like-minded people who are willing to pay for a sim while you do the building and terraforming that you might prefer, that the owner of the land might not particular want to be bothered doing.  I used to collaborate with a good friend on land he owned. It was a perfect arrangement, and many people in Second Life do something like this. 

For now I'd say keep making your observations, and keep an open-mind, mix with lots of different people, join lots of groups that mirror your own interest, and see what evolves. Never spend more than you are willing to lose, that way you won't end up feeling bitter and disappointed.

 

 

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Thanks for your answer Syo. I´ve already gone premium and thats ok. Fees for that are also ok because I want the game to be kept running and further developed. Whats not ok is a monthly fee like 200$ for a thing that´s the most basic in the game and for many it´s purpose. I´m from a rich country and students here pay a room or even small flat in real life for that. I only need like 2000-4000 sqm, maybe 8000 at maximum. I´d pay a one time buy on virtual land (!) and maybe 50$/month for maintenance including premium membership. Without somebody else between me and Linden Lab.  It´s hard to believe that shouldn´t be possible here.

I´d only go for rent if there´s really no other possibility. So to be more precise:

1. Is there "Mainland" thats an Isle or Ocean? I want it too look like that but it should be "Mainland" for the above mentioned reasons.

2.  If I have like 4000sqm of "Mainland" do I have full rights then with no one above? So I can terraform (not much) and set the rules without asking someone but linden lab?

Thanks again.

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DarranDax wrote:

Second life has no quests, no dungeons, no storyline, it´s about interaction and building. And that´s what I want. So I assume the only possibility for me is getting a mainland parcel? Are there parcels considered mainland, who meet my needs, like tropical terrain and maybe 2000-4000 sqm? Will I be able to terraform and set my own rules when just owning such a small fraction? That would still be like 25$/month plus premium membership, but would be ok with me.

You can absolutely do this on Mainland, and it's not very expensive (about which more below), but the problem is that your neighbors can do the same, so the overall experience is a combination of all those neighboring parcels, and that can be pretty discordant.

And controlling just how wildly discordant that gets is why the Mainland constrains some things. Most of Mainland, for example, can only be terraformed +/- 4m from it's reverted terrain height. That's generally plenty to shape the land for a build that fits the terrain, but it's not enough to make an island from a deep water parcel. (Some rare and expensive Mainland in "city zoned" sims cannot be terraformed at all, and a few of the nearly oldest sims have a +/- 40m terraforming limit -- and a visit there will reveal why that's a disastrously bad idea for sims with multiple landowners.)

By "not very expensive" I only mean "less expensive than it might appear at first," and that's mostly because Premium membership (on the US$ 72 annual plan) is as near to free as makes no difference, once you take into account the value of the L$300 per week stipend and the 512 sq.m. of "bonus" land tier. The painful part is the monthly tier needed to get a workable amount of land. You've seen the fee schedule, so you know it's US$ 15 - 25 to get the kind of space you describe.

You also have to find and buy the actual Mainland parcel, and as you say, you want what most people want: water, beach, or island, and it's a free market so you'll have to pay something for that. (On the plus side, the search is kind of fun. Just open the Map with the For Sale parcels showing, and look around the continents for interesting spots. Be a little careful near the Blake Sea because there are some Estate sims there, and an Estate parcel "sale" price is pretty meaningless.)

On the other hand, it's also true that there are reputable Estate owners who offer comparable alternatives, probably a bit less expensive, with the downside that you're completely at their mercy. But, you know, it's a market, and they have every incentive to treat their tenants well. You just have to be sure they're reputable, and they're offering the kind of permissions you think you want on your land.

 

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[...]

2.  If I have like 4000sqm of "Mainland" do I have full rights then with no one above? So I can terraform (not much) and set the rules without asking someone but linden lab?

This is the second time you've used "set the rules." There are certainly land permissions you can set as owner, but it's a little worrisome, this "rules" term. Anything specific you have in mind there?

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1. Is there "Mainland" thats an Isle or Ocean? I want it too look like that but it should be "Mainland" for the above mentioned reasons.

For what you want to pay, you will necessarily have neighboring parcels in the sim, whether it's Mainland or Estate. That said, here are a couple of currently for sale parcels in your target range (remember, a 4096 tier gets and additional 512 "bonus" tier from premium membership).

  • L$ 45K a 4064 water parcel (if you wanted an island, you'd have to fake it with mesh) ... overpriced, and with ugly neighbors
  • About L$20K, a 4496 beachfront with some ugly neighbors, but not dreadful.

Obviously I'm not recommending these parcels, I'm just pointing out that such things exist.

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Thanks for all your answers Qie, Orca and Marigold.

Especially the search function was advise was helpful, as I had a hard time to find something on the map with the sales activeted. There are like thousands of yellow sellings from others but I couldn´t find a single violet from LL. Also I could never tell if it´s "mainland" or not. 

Qie Niangao wrote:


[...]

2.  If I have like 4000sqm of "Mainland" do I have full rights then with no one above? So I can terraform (not much) and set the rules without asking someone but linden lab?

This is the second time you've used "set the rules." There are certainly land permissions you can set as owner, but it's a little worrisome, this "rules" term. Anything specific you have in mind there?

Just want to have full rights provided by LL within their terms. Nothing specific. With no one else to ask. If I´m "buying" it and pay the maintenance as well, thats what I expect. Also I don´t want to wreak havoc in a mountain region and would much preferebly find a location that´s already as close to my imagination as it gets. That´s been a problem so far.

To give an example, these were some looks that I had in mind:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Promo-50-Tiki-life-1052-Animations-BOX/3698963

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/tiki-atol-villa-tropic-watervilla-house-mansion-pacific-dolfin/1361948

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Tiki-Beach-Home-Unfurnitured/868537?

 

Build them myself or buy them, don´t know yet. 

Will have another look now. Thanks again to all you nice people. 

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Hello there

 

Hardware fee's, setup fee's.  Monthly fee's.  

 

These are what keep SL running and help provide the platform with more inovations,  

 

Bandwidth is typically not cheap and since LL is only moving a certain amount of data they would not have the lower price. 

 

Hardware costs are another issue, that includes upkeep and hands on support at the datacenters LL is in. 


Then employee costs at the lab it's self.

 

All these help keep SL viable and useable, if they stopped charging as much as they do or dropped the prices, espically now when they are working on a new version of this world.  it would tank and tank hard and quickly and nobody wants that.  

 

So for now it seems that they have a good fix on prices,  1000.00 usd for setup fee (private sims) and the 295.00 usd maintance fee, or "tier"

 

I'm in the industry and build servers and put them in datacenter and handle these things hands on.   so coming from me.  this is not a cheap endevor the lab is running with here.

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that look at mainland oceanside?...you will need a lot of land to have such view, and lot of L$ to purchase and most likely your neighbours like total different things and will be build close to your borders.

 

I really recommend you go rent at a privat sim, in that case your view will be the best you can get. Most private sims will give you exact the same powers as LL on the mainland.

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I've been in SL for just about 8 years and never had a problem with a private estate owner.  Those that do what you describe are the exception and don't stay in business long.  Most people in SL live on private estates.  If bad estate owners were numerous, that wouldn't be true.

If you want to pay your tiers to LL directly, you have to but mainland.  Mainland on the water is very expensive to buy and islands are not only extremely expensive but rarely come up for sale to the general public.  When they do they go fast.

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