Please help! Landlord do not want to return money!

[Iren Tinkel]

probably understanding about contract and good conscience is different from country to country. i also got lesson to have business with linden lab only cos they are legally motivatedon this point. farewell landlords

:matte-motes-silly:

 

[Daniel Regenbogen]

Wait, this is something completely different from the original poster. She haid paid for rent, the paid money was added to her rental time. I was under the impression that the same was true for you. If this is not the case and you had "free money" deposited there, they have to pay it back. And you should never do that again, why keep your money in the account of someone else, banking is forbidden anyways. If you want to park money outside your main account, just make an alt and give it to him.

 

If your money was "converted" into rental time, you're out of luck and what all others and I wrote already about contract is applieable.

[Iren Tinkel]

no, my money was not converted in the rental time. it is called -balance-. i just come and put money in terminal and it said - your balance now is blablab. and when renting time is coming they just take money from balance. not smart of course to keep money on balance for them but khe khe i was sure i have deal with serious people. and in fact they are not. i notify them i stop renting and would like to get withdraw from balance. and they say -no no, no refunds!- though it was not payment for some period. but i also suppose i cant complain to linden lab in that case. kinda -my will- and blablab

[Muletta]

A premium membership for a year, is paid up front. If you regret after 2 months, you will not get your money back from LL. Everybody should know that, before paying, so they do not have to be angry over the loss of money.

And if you buy mainland, as I said before, and you regret after 2 days, you still have to pay fee to LL for the eintire month. And if you do not pay, either with your balance-deposit or from creditcard, they will put your account on hold.

I just mentioned it, because the OP obviously think, that if she only deals with LL, she can get a refund when ever she changes her mind....

[Iren Tinkel]

i think she meant your account will not be chanrged without your will. and here i agree.

[Muletta]

I lost you here Iren Tinkel - sorry ... because her account was not charged either, without her will.

[Iren Tinkel]

if she (rexy) is renter from same estate as me she also has balance and she doesnt pay to box for week or month. she just come to terminal and fill balance. as i do. and it is logic to withdraw balance that is not used, no? she is offline now to ask if she rents from same estate as me. i also fill usd ballance in linden lab and they dont take money as they wish and i always can withdraw from my linden lab balance to my paypal. undertsand? if you pay to rental box it asks you how you pay - week, 2, 3, 4, 5 and so on. in my case i fill balance. i will ask rexy if she means this estate too.

[Daniel Regenbogen]

Doesn't look to me like the same situation, she very clearly wrote:

 

"I paid for some weeks (requirement just one week but I paid a few)"

 

To me that looks like she actually paid for rental time, not into a balance. BTW, I would really like to know what system/company that is, maybe you can tell me via inworld IM. I rent some shops myself and never encountered something like that, only the normal rental boxes (nowadays mostly Casperlet, in earlier times often Hippo), and they instantly turn money into time.

[Muletta]

Ahhh, thank you Iren Tinkel - Now I understand what you mean...Thank you for clearing this for me, as I thought the payment was through a rentbox. This kind of payment is a bit different, I see now

[Iren Tinkel]

np, i send you IM. i hope they will withdraw me. i rented there for 4 years homestead and bought full sim from them only because of respect to them. and in the end... it is amazing end of long term relationships)))

[beethros Karas]

I am a landlord.

For many years , in many virtual worlds.

When someone pays a tier box, they agree to a "contract" and they suppose to receive a notecard (before they pay it) where it will declare if there is a refund or not and  whatever other rules ( convenant) applies there.

As I read here, the OP simply relinquish the rental and had time left inside.

Thats why there is a MAXIMUM rental payment (mine is 16 weeks)

What I do in cases like this is:

Inform my tenant that they will receive a refund of 100% of the time left,

only if in case someone ELSE occupied the parcel and pay the tier box to start a rental period.

I do refund some tenants 100% , just because they was polite with me all the time, or because i found it fair enough, due to the reason they say they want to relinquish.

In some cases ( when the client is kinda, pushing and demanding and kinda threating - usually they THINK  they was cheated - but always its them wrong choice) then i prefare to LOOSE my money and pay them back,

So, that way,  i keep my reputation healthy enough to keep me proud for my future years.

 

And believe me, it gives me a soul satisfaction, like i did some good thing, and i helped a poor person or something with my WISE desision to make them believe they was right!

Of course my 16 hrs a day online for 7 years and the experiance of my RL, have me in possition to not be frauded from ppl who will take advantage of my refund policy.

(Btw, am I the only one who pays refunds? I havent heard any other landlords through times to post here answers in posts like this and say it!)

BUT... there is no way of not having hatters. Whatever we do, we will have hatters, we cant serve all the planet and have them happy. I ve been a waiter for many years (IRL) in the Greek Islands and i had serve tons of people from all over the Globe...

Cheers to the OP, sorry for your loss, please be informed of LL policy and also be informed of whomever Landlord you will go to rent land from.

Useful links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate_(Second_Life)   

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Renting-land-from-other-Residents/ta-p/1420695

http://secondlife.com/land/pricing.php

http://secondlife.com/land/privatepricing.php

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Managing-your-parcel/ta-p/700113

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Land_Buying_FAQ

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Private_Estate_Management_Companies

**For further info please call anytime!**

Teleport to: The Mall Street

Call: beethros Karas

-Welcome! Hope to answer more questions for you!

Thanks in advance!
Always yours!

[bEE Real Estate]

 ____

beethros Karas

[Muletta]

(Btw, am I the only one who pays refunds? I havent heard any other landlords through times to post here answers in posts like this and say it!)

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In my rental-info I write no refund, period. But yes, I have also paid refunds, and also done it just because the tenant has changed her/his mind…It depends on each situation. But the amounts to refund for renting my small homes, are really not to compare with rentals where entire big parcels are offered for rent, and where the landlords might be more addicted to the income, than I am, as I am only a small fish in the big rental-ocean.

A few times, when the tenant has rented one of my few expensive and bigger homes for a long time, and did regret for some reason, I have offered this solution: I have set the place for rent again, and if a new tenant then pays for the same period, I have transferred this payment to the former tenant. A sort of having the place on commission. – It has worked out fine so far.

Still…to get refund for something you paid for, from free will, and which matches what you bought, is never anything you can expect just like that, with a pouting attitude. Every refund paid back in that way, is only to be seen as a favour and as a kind and polite attitude from the business-owner. Never to be taken for granted.

[Perrie Juran]

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Iren Tinkel wrote:

hehe) same here) only my loss is 33000 and padam! i bought sim from them for 450 usd))) and asking refund me tier i didnt use since i bought sim. what i got? ignoring) they got price of land and rent from me)) maybe it is same estate Rexy?)))) it is pure stealing. i also subrented parcels to renters but since i am store owner and i uderstand money should be paid only for goods that received i always refunded payment if renter decide to leave. it is my risk if i give something for rent. but i am from proud country. ok if they are sooooooooooo poor guys they may take this money for their therapy from greedyness. i do donate money sometimes to people in need.

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While your altruism may be wonderful you are also fortunate that it has not been taken advantage of.

For a business it can be a very quick road to the poor house.

There is a RL business here in the U.S. that used to advertise, "If for any reason at any time you are not  happy with your purchase you can return it."  They had to change that because of the huge amount of money it was costing them.

A side effect of this is that as a business you need to earn "x number of dollars."  If your return policy is so generous then in order to guarantee your income you need to charge everyone more.  Is that fair to all of your customers?  You are placing the cost of your generosity on me.

[Iren Tinkel]

You know when i was young in SL i rented full sim and paid for month. In some days i changed mind and asked landlord if i can get refund. She paid me immediatelly sum without days i spent already. Same was when i rented to somebody - if person paid for a month and left in 10 days - it was matter of my honor to refund for 20 days he didnt use. What i had now - 4 years of responsible rent with balance of 200 usd sometimes in advance, purchase of full sim from this estate and -no refund, bye bye!- in the end. Awful.

[beethros Karas]

---

Muletta wrote:

(Btw, am I the only one who pays refunds? I havent heard any other landlords through times to post here answers in posts like this and say it!)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my rental-info I write no refund, period. But yes, I have also paid refunds, and also done it just because the tenant has changed her/his mind…It depends on each situation. But the amounts to refund for renting my small homes, are really not to compare with rentals where entire big parcels are offered for rent, and where the landlords might be more addicted to the income, than I am, as I am only a small fish in the big rental-ocean.

A few times, when the tenant has rented one of my few expensive and bigger homes for a long time, and did regret for some reason, I have offered this solution: I have set the place for rent again, and if a new tenant then pays for the same period, I have transferred this payment to the former tenant. A sort of having the place on commission. – It has worked out fine so far.

Still…to get refund for something you paid for, from free will, and which matches what you bought, is never anything you can expect just like that, with a pouting attitude. Every refund paid back in that way, is only to be seen as a favour and as a kind and polite attitude from the business-owner. Never to be taken for granted.

---

Same here! Thats why i avoid to have half sim parcels.. I am a small fish! Hey i live in a big glass ball though! hehe

And as perrie says i simply cannot afford refunds. The fact im giving them is just because this is more a hobby of mine than a way to excpect incoming, virtual or not.

[Perrie Juran]

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Iren Tinkel wrote:

You know when i was young in SL i rented full sim and paid for month. In some days i changed mind and asked landlord if i can get refund. She paid me immediatelly sum without days i spent already. Same was when i rented to somebody - if person paid for a month and left in 10 days - it was matter of my honor to refund for 20 days he didnt use. What i had now - 4 years of responsible rent with balance of 200 usd sometimes in advance, purchase of full sim from this estate and -no refund, bye bye!- in the end. Awful.

---

How is this a matter of honor?

If they had promised to refund unused rental time of course they should keep their word.  But they hadn't.

If anything I would say you were the one being dishonorable.  You gave your word to rent the place for the period of time by paying for it.  You've now broke your word by leaving before the time was up.  Your expectation of a refund is misplaced.

[beethros Karas]

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Iren Tinkel wrote:

You know when i was young in SL i rented full sim and paid for month. In some days i changed mind and asked landlord if i can get refund. She paid me immediatelly sum without days i spent already. Same was when i rented to somebody - if person paid for a month and left in 10 days - it was matter of my honor to refund for 20 days he didnt use. What i had now - 4 years of responsible rent with balance of 200 usd sometimes in advance, purchase of full sim from this estate and -no refund, bye bye!- in the end. Awful.

---

Aaahh Those old good days.. -Before crisis SL was more "welthy" than RL

I dkn if that was good or bad..

But I know for sure that was more money involved, more people from more countries, (Im sure there are stories for ppl who fed a family from earning some us$ from SL in those "wild" countries, use to be called 3rd world.) I pause here, dont want to go to other topic.

 But yes, as they say in usa...

Easy comes, easy goes.. i remember my self paying to rent a L$30/w shop and i couldnt get a group invite and they just added to me 3 days in it as a gift.. I do also remember tons of offers and freebies etc etc and many ways to earn lindens.

Now, as for the refund and the honnor, well sure! I Agree100% , I am GREEK ( we suppose to invent honnor)

And i do refunds, as i state above, BUT.. i tottaly sympathise 100% Those who DONT refund, because Simply i understand what it takes for them to be SMALL landlords and have some tenants.. in majority they pay MORE of what they earn.

Of course they had to have it clear "NO REFUNDS" and written in a notecard and explained and and and ..

I admit a refund in this case , maybe was a wiser move from the landold, but again,

I wasnt there to see what happent exactly, so I am not able to comment.

My answer is kinda "general speaking", kinda like my oppinion, my 2 cents,  as almost of all the others i believe.

Hope for a better future!

beets

p.s i was looking for some louis armstrong song to cheer a bit the situation.. or something similar..and i found this really new video fom young ppl and cheered me up to see them trying for to have a better world!

 

[Iren Tinkel]

yes you know it is matter of honor and as was said before - matter of soul satisfaction. i will not tear apart someone's throat for some profit lindens. if about my business - yes i prefer customer to be satisfied, if he is not, i offer some another item or yes, i refund, even not taking linden's marketplace comission - i just refund. and no, i dont rise up priced for others. just because 1) i make good stuff 2)i make it good because i really like what i do 3) it is game and i take all responsibility of this. no need to say what is fair or no to my customers - this is off-top and if you are interested about my customers just look my reviews. i am proud of my business too. in my case about land i described here i dont regret about money - i get this sum in couple of days. i regret about people who act like greedy dorks. i regret i meet people like that in my life.

answering your question about my noob's experience with land - i am thankful to that girl who refunded me and i think she is great doing this because profit should be made from something that is useful and not from air. i followed this policy too and i am happy i made many people satisfied. altruists? they make this world spin, not damned businessmen and profit catchers. good luck to you, Perrie Juran

[Tari Landar]

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Rexy Absent wrote:

So you find it is OK if land owner covers her inability to find new renters from my wallet? Great:) Looks like you are also landowner:) But tell me please then WHY Linden Lab has withdraw policy and landlords - no?!  Linden Lab also buys servers (or rents) and I do not care when they should pay for them. They take tier AFTER month ends. And if I do not want to continue keep land - I just abandon land before tier date comes and Linden Lab does not MAKE me use all money that I have on USD deposit account.

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I'm not a land owner, but you sound like someone who is childish and immature and not quite ready for the responsibility of being in any type of contrat, real or imagined. When you paid for the land, you entered into a contract, you now have use of that land. The fact that you no longer WANT use of the land, doesn't matter. You paid for it, you can either use it, or not use it, that is up to you. You still are not out a single penny.

[Tari Landar]

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Iren Tinkel wrote:

probably understanding about contract and good conscience is different from country to country. i also got lesson to have business with linden lab only cos they are

legally

motivated

on this point. farewell landlords

:matte-motes-silly:

 

---

LL won't refund you money if you decide you no longer want to live somewhere they own either. You still have to pay for the entire month, up front. You you decide after a week or two you no longer want that piece of land, you've still already paid for it. It is no different.

[Perrie Juran]

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Iren Tinkel wrote:

yes you know it is matter of honor and as was said before - matter of soul satisfaction. i will not tear apart someone's throat for some profit lindens. if about my business - yes i prefer customer to be satisfied, if he is not, i offer some another item or yes, i refund, even not taking linden's marketplace comission - i just refund. and no, i dont rise up priced for others. just because 1) i make good stuff 2)i make it good because i really like what i do 3) it is game and i take all responsibility of this. no need to say what is fair or no to my customers - this is off-top and if you are interested about my customers just look my reviews. i am proud of my business too. in my case about land i described here i dont regret about money - i get this sum in couple of days. i regret about people who act like greedy dorks. i regret i meet people like that in my life.

 

answering your question about my noob's experience with land - i am thankful to that girl who refunded me and i think she is great doing this because profit should be made from something that is useful and not from air. i followed this policy too and i am happy i made many people satisfied. altruists? they make this world spin, not damned businessmen and profit catchers. good luck to you, Perrie Juran

---

Why do people always fall back on equating earning a living being GREED?

We read it day in and day out in these Forums.  Every other time someone doesn't like something it's Greedy Merchants this, Greedy Landlords that, and on and on.  What is greedy about earning a living?

And why do people always fall back on "it's only a game?"  There are people who do actually work full time here earning a living.  My first Landlord worked full time at what he did.  He was on call almost 24/7/365 to take care of his renters.  It was his livelihood at the time.

It is we who are being greedy if we are the ones always thinking, "It's only a game," and that we should be getting everything for free.

It is a wonderful thing for you if your Business Model is working for you.  But it is wrong for someone to think when they enter into an agreement that the other party is OBLIGATED to release  them from the agreement on a whim or fancy.  That is dishonest.

Charity is wonderful and Altruism is a good thing.  I myself just let someone out of a contract in RL.  But now I am having to work a little harder to make up for what I just lost.  Altruism does not make the world go round.  Honesty and respect do.

 

 

 

[beethros Karas]

 

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Why do people always fall back on equating earning a living being GREED?

We read it day in and day out in these Forums.  Every other time someone doesn't like something it's Greedy Merchants this, Greedy Landlords that, and on and on.  What is greedy about earning a living?

And why do people always fall back on "it's only a game?"  There are people who do actually work full time here earning a living.  My first Landlord worked full time at what he did.  He was on call almost 24/7/365 to take care of his renters.  It was his livelihood at the time.

It is we who are being greedy if we are the ones always thinking, "It's only a game," and that we should be getting everything for free.

It is a wonderful thing for you if your Business Model is working for you.  But it is wrong for someone to think when they enter into an agreement that the other party is OBLIGATED to release  them from the agreement on a whim or fancy.  That is dishonest.

Charity is wonderful and Altruism is a good thing.  I myself just let someone out of a contract in RL.  But now I am having to work a little harder to make up for what I just lost.  Altruism does not make the world go round.  Honesty and respect do.

---

           THANK YOU!!!

'_______________________'

[beethros Karas]

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Iren Tinkel wrote:

You know when i was young in SL i rented full sim and paid for month. In some days i changed mind and asked landlord if i can get refund. She paid me immediatelly sum without days i spent already. Same was when i rented to somebody - if person paid for a month and left in 10 days - it was matter of my honor to refund for 20 days he didnt use. What i had now -

4 years of responsible rent

with balance of 200 usd sometimes in advance, purchase of full sim from this estate and -no refund, bye bye!- in the end. Awful.

---

Since this post had so many replies, I would like to comment on this part.

(Im sorry i didnt pay attention to this small BUT very critical detail.)

When someone pay for 4 years the rent, well, then things has to be different.

Now i get it why the OP and this member who enter to the "convo" with same/similar case had the "demand/rights" to accept a refund.

Come on? 4 years?  In virtual 4 years is like a humans life time! (or not?) Whatever it is, even if the landlord didnt had a single penny as a profit, they had to refund the whatever time left and they didnt had to ask why.

At least thats what i would do because , well, that what we need to call it greed or i dkn what... it had happen to my self ( and was a reason to make me want to be a landlord)

I was a tenant for kinda 1-2 or maybe more years because those days thats what i wanted to be, and then, i wanted to buy the parcel from the landlord. Was a parcel of 1/4 SIM Grass Mainland and then they asked 50k with a bit of explanation  of why they have to charge me 50k (lol) because they was making more of having it rented out to me than sell it to me... :matte-motes-shocked:

When - of course - i didnt even reply and end my rental, the next days they was selling it to anyone for 16k .. (and i bought it) and became a landlord.

Of course, in many cases, things are as Pierre says above and thats why i post that huge thank you!

But, oh well, as i said above, sometimes, soul has to conquered the brains, or otherwise , we humans, we loosing the value of our conscience

cheers beets

[Rexy Absent]

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Tari Landar wrote:

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Rexy Absent wrote:

So you find it is OK if land owner covers her inability to find new renters from my wallet? Great:) Looks like you are also landowner:) But tell me please then WHY Linden Lab has withdraw policy and landlords - no?!  Linden Lab also buys servers (or rents) and I do not care when they should pay for them. They take tier AFTER month ends. And if I do not want to continue keep land - I just abandon land before tier date comes and Linden Lab does not MAKE me use all money that I have on USD deposit account.

---

I'm not a land owner, but you sound like someone who is childish and immature and not quite ready for the responsibility of being in any type of contrat, real or imagined. When you paid for the land, you entered into a contract, you now have use of that land. The fact that you no longer WANT use of the land, doesn't matter. You paid for it, you can either use it, or not use it, that is up to you. You still are not out a single penny.

---

 

So you find it is "childish and immature and not quite ready for the responsibility of being in any type of contrat" if I pay rent for 2 years 1 months and 3 weeks (always in time) and ask to refund me 2 pre-paid weeks because i am in need? Congrats to your wisdom, girl.

[Daniel Regenbogen]

You were in need? You were able to grab other land before your old rent ran out, couldn't have been much of a need...