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Jason1 Draconia
Posts: 191

Land impact of old style vendors? Does it exist?

Just wondering on the old style Vendor boards, you know the single prim ones that have 10 scripts in each one. on a 6336m parcel  haveing at least 300 of those plus everything else and others. Mainland.

So offhand running at least 3000 scripts just in those on the one  parcel, would that affect the Region more?

Just curious. 

Posts: 5,501
Registered: ‎05-21-2009

Re: Land impact of old style vendors? Does it exist?

Reply to Jason1 Draconia - view message

If they sleep until someone uses the vendor and then go back to sleep when finished, then it may not be too bad,  But if they don't, yes you are probably contributing to the regions lag. 

If I were you I would look at some of the newer vendor systems that use one script per vendor.  The response time is generally faster and the vendor uses script time more efficiently.  I have found they are much easier to load and manage too.  What used to take me an hour using the old style vendors I can now accomplish in just a few minutes and are more customer friendly too.

LL plans at some time in the not too distant future to limit script time based on parcel size, similar to the way that prims are managed now.  Each parcel will be able to use a maximum amount of script time in proportion to the percentage of the sim it represents,  For instance a 4096 would only be able to use a maximum of 1/16th of the total script time on the server.  It is why you now have access to the script information in the land tools instead of just the region.   When this goes into effect, you very well may find that some of your vendors don't work anymore.  So it is best you look for a more efficient system now rather than be surprised when this happens.

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jwenting
Posts: 860
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Registered: ‎02-23-2012

Re: Land impact of old style vendors? Does it exist?

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if they do that, it'd be death for many bdsm and other adult themed sims which tend to be script heavy. Yet many of these sims aren't slow, they perform well (putting the lie to the simpleminded idea that the number of scripts and/or the amount of script memory claimed by them is a good indicator of performance impact).

 

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Jason1 Draconia
Posts: 191

Re: Land impact of old style vendors? Does it exist?

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Reminds me of an old tenant on one of our Estates years ago. They had a store selling scripted items, He was a 'low lag' script maker. Rented about a 6144m sized parcel. after a few weeks started complaining of lag on the Estate makeing it impossible for him to work, everytime I went there it was 'okay'.

He began examining how many scripts others were using on the Estate (adult beds mainly) going over 1 MS script time, pointed out anything over 0.1 MS is laggy. I think scripts in use were about 5.4 MS on the estate tab. Sure objects in use go higher, can't deny it. After a few more visits on checking script time and complaints about lag from him and him being convinced I needed to make the other tenants remove their overly high scripted items.

I took another look at the scripts running on the Estate, decided to filter the by name, started adding his up FIRST lol. He was right his scripted items were all below 0.1 MS of region time use BUT he made up for that in sheer volume adding his items I stopped at about 2.4 MS.... So roughly 40% of the scripted items in play on the SIM using resources were his...

Not bad for someone renting about 12% of an Estate and use 40% of the Estate's resources and complain about others abusing it saying they are causing the lag.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

Posts: 5,501
Registered: ‎05-21-2009

Re: Land impact of old style vendors? Does it exist?

Reply to jwenting - view message


jwenting wrote:

....putting the lie to the simpleminded idea that the number of scripts and/or the amount of script memory claimed by them is a good indicator of performance impact.

 


I doubt it will be as simple as that.  If it were it would already be implemented.  More than likely there will be a formula of some type involved. My explanation was very simplistic and was for illustration only for those that don't understand fully how this works.  From what I  understand of the plan if your lot is allocated x amount of total script resources you can use as you please.  However, once you have reached your limit then when you rez out the next scripted object it just won't function.

The example that the OP gave is a very good example of the reason why this is needed.  I've run into the same thing myself where one of my tenants may be using very efficient scripts but they are still 'hogging' more than their share of resources based on what they are paying for,  It really doesn't matter if the rest of the tenants are using their share or not,  The one tenant was still restricting the potential those other tenants are paying for and it would interfere with their enjoyment of their land if they decided to add more scripted objects.  Tiers are based on lot size and while the lot is a visual manifestation in world, they really are more of a measure of your share of sim resources

It is not like this will happen overnight.  There will more than likely be an adjustment period during which people can adjust to it. It is not going to be a problem if the entire sim is owned by the same person. You will  be able to allocate resources as you please then, just like you can prims.  However it is true that some venues on less than a full sim who won't or don't adjust may find that they need more land, or will have to cut back on the scripted objects they use.  Your sensationalized prediction of the death of many venues is premature.  The sky will not fall unless a venue owner chooses to allow it to. If they do I am sure there will be others ready to meet the demand.

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jwenting
Posts: 860
Topics: 5
Registered: ‎02-23-2012

Re: Land impact of old style vendors? Does it exist?

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Jason1 Draconia wrote:

Reminds me of an old tenant on one of our Estates years ago. They had a store selling scripted items, He was a 'low lag' script maker. Rented about a 6144m sized parcel. after a few weeks started complaining of lag on the Estate makeing it impossible for him to work, everytime I went there it was 'okay'.

He began examining how many scripts others were using on the Estate (adult beds mainly) going over 1 MS script time, pointed out anything over 0.1 MS is laggy. I think scripts in use were about 5.4 MS on the estate tab. Sure objects in use go higher, can't deny it. After a few more visits on checking script time and complaints about lag from him and him being convinced I needed to make the other tenants remove their overly high scripted items.

I took another look at the scripts running on the Estate, decided to filter the by name, started adding his up FIRST lol. He was right his scripted items were all below 0.1 MS of region time use BUT he made up for that in sheer volume adding his items I stopped at about 2.4 MS.... So roughly 40% of the scripted items in play on the SIM using resources were his...

Not bad for someone renting about 12% of an Estate and use 40% of the Estate's resources and complain about others abusing it saying they are causing the lag.

 

Reminds me of years ago during the .com boom when I worked at an IT shop. The network admins were constantly complaining about our use of internet bandwidth, how we should use less because it was so slow.
Few weeks later somebody walked into their office and noticed 3 large servers running there that had no business being there (they had not been approved by anyone for any project, even as spares). Investigation followed, turned out the network admins themselves were running those servers to download pirated music and movies 24/7 and were eating up every spare bit of network traffic doing so, causing the poor performance they'd been blaming on everyone else.

Heads rolled....

 

Phil Deakins
Posts: 6,240
Topics: 98
Registered: ‎03-26-2009

Re: Land impact of old style vendors? Does it exist?

[ Edited ]

Reply to Jason1 Draconia - view message

If my memory is correct, and it may not be but I do think it is, a change was made some years ago so that a sim's script-running time is limited and, because it's limited, no amount of scripts can lag a sim by themselves. The idea is that, if a sim contains a very large number of scripts that need more time to run each frame than the maximum script time, then all scripts in the sim will be affected, because they are all trying to get a bit of the time allowed but they can't all get any each frame. However, the sim itself should not be lagged by the fact that there is such a large number of running scripts. I've forgotten what the maximum script time is each second but a frame only starts to lag when it takes longer than ~22.4ms.

To get an idea of how scripts are doing in a sim, press ctrl-shift-1 to see the STATISTICS panel. The information has changed a little since I used to use it but look at the bottom - below Time (ms). As well as the Total Frame Time for each frame, it shows the amount of time that scripts use for each frame. It also shows the amount of spare time for each frame and, when the spare time is not 0, then the sim is in good shape. Above those, there's an item called Scripts Run. I don't know what it is because it's relatively new, but it may be that it's showing the percentage of the maximum script time that's used in each frame. If that's the case, then anything below 100% means that the scripts in the sim don't exceed the maximum time allowed for them to run and, therefore, scripts on their own aren't lagging the sim. Incidentally, I think that scripts worn in attachments are included in the figures.