Why Creators use NO MOD on their scripted items??

[Siemp Bender]

I am wondering why creators sell their stuff NO MOD, They create a fantastic item, and they put a resize, colour, or other script in to set the item up, really nice script work! it makes a SL life much more easy! I recently bought some Feet and Hands, really nice build, and a nice way to set up the right colour. After I set everything up, I wanted to lose the scripts.... but I do not have the right permissions to do so. So if I wear this items, I am stuck with some useless scripts. The creator told me, it is "just a little script"..... but that is not what I asked for! if you count all scripts in your hair, clothes, your mesh stuff, like ears, hands, feet, nails e.d. together it does make a different!

 When I explain the problem the most creators just send me a MOD version of the item, that is a really good service :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:... I just want to know WHY creators are selling NO MOD! The scripts are no mod, it is all copy, so you can save a copy of the original item, and it's all NO transfer. So what is the point to make a item with a script you can't get out? Some creators made a "delete script" option in their hud, but some of this scripts still leave some useless scripts in the item. The MOST creators are so kind to give a MOD version, but it is unnecessary to send a NC with the same question everytime when you buy a nice Item. :matte-motes-grin:

 I try to lower my script count and memory as much as possible, you don’t want to be a avatar who is causing lag on a busy sim. Some sims, like race sims, fight sims, big clubs,  Gor or other RP sims have a limit on script usage. So people need to detach there nice bought items just because they are stuck with scripts! I would say…..

 PLEASE let the customer decide if they WANT to use the scripts in an item or not….. and the most important….. KEEP UP the GOOD WORK!! :)

 

[Qie Niangao]

---

Siemp Bender wrote:

Some creators made a "delete script" option in their hud, but some of this scripts still leave some useless scripts in the item.

---

That would be unacceptably sloppy, in my opinion. I might guess, however, that the script successfully deletes itself, which was all it was designed to do, but the object creator cluttered up the contents with other funky scripts, rather than having a competent scripter actually working on the product.

Sometimes I really wish there were no script libraries because they delude creators into believing they can buy or use multiple scripts without anybody knowing both the scripts and the product. It may kinda work, but it's never going to be optimal.

Just in passing: some of the scripts exist in no-mod items specifically in order to make it possible to deliver the item without modify permission. That is, the creators may have left out the scripts altogether if they were willing to sell a mod-enabled product. There are a very (very) few good reasons for no-mod products, but with only those rare exceptions, it's simply the creator being stupid.

[Sassy Romano]

I have the same view which doesn't really bring much to the discussion but the reasons for an item being no mod vary. Some are deluded paranoia, believing that it prevents copying or if the customer can't modify it, they can't break it and thus reduces customer complaints. Some feel that if the customer dares to change it and does a bad job, it reflects badly on the merchant showing "their work" in a bad light.

 

I disagree with all those reasons and more but it's the creators choice to set that and your choice not to buy because of it.

[Senobia Xenga]

If you can mod the scripts, you can see the scripts. If you can see the scripts, you can steal the scripts. 

 

That's my understanding.

[Sassy Romano]

Of course but this isn't about scripts, it's about the OBJECT containing then being set to no modify.

 

A modify object does not make scripts within it modify, if those scripts are set themselves as no modify.

[Siemp Bender]

@Sassy Romano If you do not want to buy No Mod Items, you are very limited in using nice builds... THat is my whole point, I want to understand the creators, I respect their work, but I just do not understand this point of view, I hope some creators who sell Items like this will react too....

@Senobia Xenga You can set scripts on "NO MOD"  and the item on "MOD" so you can delete the script, but you can't lookin to it

[Perrie Juran]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Siemp Bender wrote:

Some creators made a "delete script" option in their hud, but some of this scripts still leave some useless scripts in the item.

---

That would be unacceptably sloppy, in my opinion. I might guess, however, that the script successfully deletes itself, which was all it was designed to do, but the object creator cluttered up the contents with other funky scripts, rather than having a competent scripter actually working on the product.

Sometimes I really wish there were no script libraries because they delude creators into believing they can buy or use multiple scripts without anybody knowing both the scripts and the product. It may kinda work, but it's never going to be optimal.

Just in passing: some of the scripts exist in no-mod items specifically in order to make it

possible

to deliver the item without modify permission. That is, the creators may have left out the scripts altogether if they were willing to sell a mod-enabled product. There are a very

(very)

few good reasons for no-mod products, but with only those rare exceptions, it's simply the creator being stupid.

---

Making it no mod does make it a little harder to steal the textures but there are probably other methods to do it than the one that I know.

But I agree, it's basically a false sense of security to make them no mod.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

At least providing a way to remove scripts should be common decency by creators. Alas. Many simply don't care. There's plenty of things _I_ don't care one iota about, so I can't really blame creators for being uncaring.

[Sassy Romano]

---

Siemp Bender wrote:

@

Sassy Romano

 If you do not want to buy No Mod Items, you are very limited in using nice builds... THat is my whole point, I want to understand the creators, I respect their work, but I just do not understand this point of view, I hope some creators who sell Items like this will react too....

 

---

I don't argue with that, i'm just saying, that's your choice... to NOT buy or even better contact the creator first and ask them if they can change permissions.  If they don't just tell them why you're not buying the item.

I've had the same discussions with people who believe all the things I mentioned in some false sense of righteousness or delusion.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I prefer items with prim mod permissions myself and I won't buy if modifying the item is important to me.  However if I don't want to mod it and its no mod I'll buy it.

I do want to point out that if there is just one script in your hands, it controls nail color too.  If you were able to delete that then you couldn't change the nails, which is probably why you can't delete it.  Of course you might not mind that, but most would.

The other problem you have is not with the hands but with the script monitors/counters used in some sims.  They are in no way accurate as to how what resources you are actually using that could cause lag.  If you are interested in why then search the forum for threads concerning this, as it has been brought up a number of times.

[Siemp Bender]

@Sassy Romano you have a point there, maybe that is the only way to do shopping.... if you want something contact the creator.... You can't always see if there is an option to delete the script.

 

@Amethyst Jetaime The point is.... let the customer decide what he want with the script..... to talk about your example with the nail thing.... I am a man, I setup my hands ones, and do not need other nails, So I do not need the script!. and if I decide to buy another skin, I just take a fresh copy from the original hands. Nice to have many colors of skin... if you only use one.... the point is simple... I only need the scripts to set the item up, after that I want to delete the script, cause it is useless

[Qie Niangao]

---

Siemp Bender wrote:

If you do not want to buy No Mod Items, you are very limited in using nice builds...

---

That's mostly not correct, and the top-of-the-line creators almost without fail sell only mod-enabled items.

And that's especially true of mesh clothing. It's weird that the best creators who had all the most experience with mesh from the times it was in private beta, those creators released their stuff with modify permission. And then something weird happened and the creators who swept in later completely screwed up that market. Maybe they thought that people shouldn't modify weighted mesh because the attached position of it is predetermined, but there are other changes that people want to make. And now, post materials, early no-mod mesh clothes are really dated and obsolete.

Short version: You can generally rely on this rule of thumb: if it's no-mod, it's crap.

[Sassy Romano]

That's very much it Qie, creators that don't understand the permissions and set no mod because they bought a resizer script that says "must set permissions to no mod" without understanding that it's referring to the script, not the object.

Same with other components.

[Sathya Breil]

Many mesh clothing items are sold with texture changer huds with them. Many of the scripts that allow you to do this, in my experience, force you to sell no mod. Not because the tos say you cant put the script to mod, but because the script delete itself if the perms of the object are set to mod. Ive try around 7 texture changer scripts and they all have this quality. The one that didnt had a glitch and I ended up selling demos with it that even tho perms were no mod, were mod. So i will not try that one again. Also, most texture changer huds include textures or texture id number, that In my case at least i dont want to give away, hence the no mod state for the hud. The objects i would set to mod if the scripts would allow me, but so far I havent found good texture changers that do. You can say that there is a chance of offering the product with or without them, but lately i sell my items with a lot of changing options and if i would want to offer them all in all sizes in the same pack, it would be way too many items for a single box. So thats why, me at least, dont sale no mod items.

[Qie Niangao]

If that's true -- and I have no reason to doubt it -- there are some HUD-script-sellers who should be ashamed of themselves.

The underlying problem may be that only scammers get into that HUD-selling biz, given that the ultimate resizing script was written by Void Singer (and even it has recently been rendered obsolete when Andrew Linden gave us a built-in solution just as he was leaving for High Fidelity).

I really hate "for merchant resale" projects because there's no predicting what all will go wrong when non-scripting creators combine scripts, but otherwise this seems a market in dire need of disruption by free open source software.

 

[Sassy Romano]

---

Sathya Breil wrote:

Also, most texture changer huds include textures or texture id number, that In my case at least i dont want to give away, hence the no mod state for the hud.

---

I agree with Qie, if that's the case, then that's appalling behaviour of texture changing scripts for such use.  There's no good reason to force that.  As for texture UUID's, that's fine on the HUD, no mod hud isn't an issue although the UUID's are trivial to get anyway even with everything no mod.

[Cathy Foil]

One of the reasons content creators started making their items NO MOD was because of the introduction of COPYBOT years ago.

To compensate for customer not being able to mod an item scripts were created and HUDs added.

The sad truth is that making an item NO MOD only deters a small percentage of copybot thiefs.  If a content creator is making their items NO MOD for this reason they are only really adding to the LAG problem in SL.  I am sorry to admit that I had been among them.  If someone wants to steal your items bad enough, no matter what the permissions are, they can.

LL definitely needs to do a better job at explaining this to content creators.

Luckily people who steal are lazy.  Most of the time they just want the item for themselves and they weren't going to buy it anyway.  The few who do try to sell the items don't last that long in business because they are lazy and get board and quit or eventually get caught.

Yes I had an item of mine get stolen.  Yes they had it for sale and yes within six months they were out of business.

Theft is going to happen but the loss of income to it will most likely be minimal.  So worrying about it and causing massive lag with scripts and HUDs trying to stop it is way overblown and will hurt SL and content creators losing them money from the LAG driving new residents away from SL than any loss they might have experienced from thieves.

I am not saying to content creators if they find someone has stolen their stuff not to report them to LL or go after them through the courts.

 

[Jenni Darkwatch]

I still know a few high-end creators who believe that no-mod does in any way shape or form deter copybotting. To be honest I've given up debating about it - stupid remains stupid.

There's one other argument against mod+copy: That griefers can take your object, inject a malicious script and get the creator in trouble. However, I think Lindens are not that dumb to retaliate against the creator of an object if there's no reason for it.

[Siemp Bender]

I will not put in all brands in SL, but till now I see this problem allot by very GOOD creators, they made really good clothes, but do not take care of their scripts!

[Phil Deakins]

How about this for an answer. The resize/recolor scripts are intended to stay in the objects in case a user wants to change the avatar, and needs to resize/recolor the objects to suit the new style. That may well be the reason. People don't always want to permanently stay the way they are, but, if the scripts are gone, what do they do? They contact the creator asking for help to sort out a problem of the user's own making. So perhaps the creators have decided that, to avoid the hassle, it's best not to allow the user to remove the scripts.

A couple of small resize/recolor scripts in an object isn't going to bring a sim to its knees, and not being able to remove the scrips is not a problem..

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Siemp Bender wrote:

I will not put in all brands in SL, but till now I see this problem allot by very GOOD creators, they made really good clothes, but do not take care of their scripts!

---

Realistically, the mesh clothing you're wearing itself places more of a load on the simulator (because it has to be sent to every avatar that arrives in that region) than the miniscule script in a piece of clothing that uses a color-change HUD does.

[Sassy Romano]

Mod/copy

 

Easy, keep a copy with scripts if changing a shape later is needed.

 

Mod, because there's really no reason not to (other than specific use cases)

[Jenni Darkwatch]

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

Siemp Bender wrote:

I will not put in all brands in SL, but till now I see this problem allot by very GOOD creators, they made really good clothes, but do not take care of their scripts!

---

Realistically, the mesh clothing you're wearing itself places more of a load on the simulator (because it has to be sent to every avatar that arrives in that region) than the miniscule script in a piece of clothing that uses a color-change HUD does.

---

Two problems with that:

1) If such a script is in everything someone wears, even if it's just basic clothing, quickly adds up. When using any kind of vehicle in SL it's beneficial to not wear anything scripted at all, because the more scripts one has the higher the crash rate.

2) There's plenty of creators out there, even well known ones, where it isn't just one script.

Not to mention, a redelivery terminal fixes some of the support issues, as does a big fat warning on a user's screen that they should make a copy before removing scripts, warning them of dire consequences if they don't. Scare tactics do work to get people to do something, as we all know from malware that uses that tactic

[Perrie Juran]

---

Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

Siemp Bender wrote:

I will not put in all brands in SL, but till now I see this problem allot by very GOOD creators, they made really good clothes, but do not take care of their scripts!

---

Realistically, the mesh clothing you're wearing itself places more of a load on the simulator (because it has to be sent to every avatar that arrives in that region) than the miniscule script in a piece of clothing that uses a color-change HUD does.

---

Two problems with that:

1) If such a script is in everything someone wears, even if it's just basic clothing, quickly adds up. When using any kind of vehicle in SL it's beneficial to not wear anything scripted at all, because the more scripts one has the higher the crash rate.

2) There's plenty of creators out there, even well known ones, where it isn't just one script.

Not to mention, a redelivery terminal fixes some of the support issues, as does a big fat warning on a user's screen that they should make a copy before removing scripts, warning them of dire consequences if they don't. Scare tactics do work to get people to do something, as we all know from malware that uses that tactic

---

And add to that that some outfits can have multiple items involved.  Sometomes a dozen or more separate pieces.

[Phil Deakins]

Ah yes. I hadn't noticed that the stuff was copy.