This isn't allowed? Advertising

[Antumbra]

So I was going around asking people what they thought about my outfit, and if they said it was very beautiful i'd tell them to check out my store and give them the LM and they would say "thank you! :D" but this one chick got really butthurt and said that it wasn't allowed and that i can get banned for asking people about my outfit and giving them the LM of where to get it ;o is that true? if it is... then that's weird... She said it was spamming but its not really spamming cuz I only send the LM's to the people once and they had NO problem with it what so ever.

[Rosie Eun]

Whether it's allowed or not, I'd suggest that fishing for compliments in order to dish out LMs to your store is a bit, well, needy.

 

If someone ASKS you about your outfit, fantastic, give them an LM, tell them you made it, offer to TP them to the store if they're keen, but what you're talking about sounds pretty irritating.

 

If someone I'd never seen before asked me what I thought of their outfit, I'd probably be polite enough to say "It's fine," but I'd get annoyed if they saw that as my permission to be sent stuff I hadn't asked for.

[Phil Deakins]

She was wrong.

[Syo Emerald]

That girl certainly is seeking drama, but I'm suprised nobody from the other people you encountered said that its absolutly weird what you were doing.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

She was wrong.

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I'm not so sure about that. If a random stranger asks if you like thier outfit and then hands you a LM to thier store without promting, I would call that spam. Especially if they do it to a crowd. Most people will not tell you to your face that a dress is horrible.

[Qie Niangao]

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Antumbra wrote:

 but its not really spamming cuz I only send the LM's to the people once and they had NO problem with it what so ever.

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Well obviously at least one did have a problem with it -- such a problem that she even bothered to call you out about it. Perhaps there were thousands of others left silently seething, and perhaps even more who will never login again because the encounter was so unpleasant.

Anyway, on a private parcel, especially a store, you can and almost surely will be banned from the parcel for doing this.

On a Linden-owned parcel, you are in fact violating a "no advertising" restriction and could theoretically be banned from Second Life altogether -- although in practice you'll just get a bunch of ARs filed against you and nothing will happen.

Usually folks will just assume you're a bot and file the ARs without contacting you, so it's kind of surprising that anybody bothered that one time.

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Antumbra wrote:

So I was going around asking people what they thought about my outfit, and if they said it was very beautiful i'd tell them to check out my store and give them the LM and they would say "thank you!

" but this one chick got really butthurt and said that it wasn't allowed and that i can get banned for asking people about my outfit and giving them the LM of where to get it ;o is that true? if it is... then that's weird... She said it was spamming but its not really spamming cuz I only send the LM's to the people once and they had NO problem with it what so ever.

---

Just ask first.  If you ask them if they'd be interested in visiting your shop, then they'll have the chance to say, "Sure," (in which case you give them the LM) or, "No, thank you" (in which case you don't).  That way you won't be bothering people who aren't interested and you'll still be giving LMs out to those who are actually interested in your stuff.  Otherwise, such aggressive solicitation may very well put off a person who would have otherwise been more than happy to go check the place out... something I'm sure that, for the sake of your business and reputation, you'd really want to avoid.

...Dres

[So Whimsy]

Unless they explicitely ask you where you got the outfit from, any advertising of said outfit (sending them LM's, dropping your store name) is unsolicited spam indeed and grounds for an AR.

Whenever someone asks me if I like something someone wears I'll be polite about it, that is however not an invitation to send me anything or to even mention the store as I did not ask for it. And I would  be extremely put off your store for such 'marketing'.

And just because you say 'it's not really spamming' doesn't make it so

[Tamara Artis]

If you are inside the shop that sells female clothing and a lady next to you is trying a demo, and you can't teleport a friend to help you chose, then it is okay to ask her opinion about the outfit from that shop that you have on your own avatar. Usually we do it when we are not sure if something fits or doesn't. 

If you are anywhere else in SL and approach to a stranger to ask about your outfit, it is weird, makes you look insecure and like you are fishing for attention and not really able to think of any other excuse to talk to someone. People will say it is okay just to say something and move on. 

As a general rule, do not give anything to people if they did not ask for it! Many residents get random group invites, offers to advertise in some magazine no one ever heard off, invites to events that have nothing to do with them or really interest them, and tons of other things that are nothing but annoying. 

At random public places your profile and a group tag are things you can use to advertise your own business. If people like what you have they will ask for it, don't worry we all have keyboards and are able to get what we want

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

Just ask first.  If you ask them if they'd be interested in visiting your shop, then they'll have the chance to say, "Sure," (in which case you give them the LM) or, "No, thank you" (in which case you don't).

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That sounds like "can I have a moment of your time to talk about God's good news" or "can I interest you in our super cheap insurances?". I can (and will) decline, but it's still pretty annoying.

[Marianne Little]

I understand your frustration as a new creator in SL. It is really hard to get a foot in between the established creators. The female apparel market is crowded. Big stores has a strong presence in fashion blogs and on Flickr, so their stuff is seen by all who are using blogs and Flickr to find a new outfit.

Inworld search is not working well. The Marketplace - if you use it - will show your items on the front pace just hours or less before it is swallowed in the huge amount of ads. The best selling items are posted first when people use search words. Search is also flawed here, search words is abused and it seems a too big task for LL to make it work better.

BUT the way you advertise is not ok. If a stranger sent me an IM and asked about their outfit, I would say "You look fine" in almost all cases. I am usually not interested in creating drama by pointing out details I don't like. I can be more critical when there are threads in the Avatar section here. But I always try to say something nice first to soften the critic. Most times I would not have time to look a stanger over and give her my honest opinion either. Saying "You look fine" is a way of avoiding a discussion. I usually have limited time to spend in SL and not time enough to evaluate strangers outfits, I save that for the few friends I still have left. To be out of SL in periods makes me a loner, trying to catch up is hard when people quit and move on all the time. 

Getting a LM and be asked to check out the store would be annoying. I guess I would just mute you instead of getting into an argument, but it would not give you sales.

The best for you would be to try and get into one of the sales or events, like those listed in this blog. http://seraphimsl.com/

I know that isn't easy either.... *hugs*

[Pussycat Catnap]

Yes its spamming.

If you just ask people if they like how you look - fine. But then you add the "and here's how you too can look like this" and folks want to change the channel only you're all up in their digital face doing it.

And "butthurt" - this isn't world of warcraft or whatever. That kind of phrasing isn't winning sympathy.

Could you get banned from SL for it? No. But if you did it at a place I have ban powers over, you'd find yourself banned from that location.

 

[Perrie Juran]

Your soliciting for your business.  From the very moment you start contacting people.

Generally speaking, SPAM is unsolicited bulk messages.  You're just spamming in slow motion.

At a lot of clubs I frequent, if I reported you to the management you'd just find yourself booted and banned from the Club.

While you are just one person, multiply it by all the other unsolicited offers I get.

Me, I just silently AR and mute spammers.

Maybe I'm being a little tough here but it's how I think about SPAM.

[Phil Deakins]

On reflection, and especially in view of what's been pointed out in this thread, I'll change my reply from "She was wrong" to:-

She was wrong about it getting you banned from SL (unless you really go to town doing it and ignore any warnings from LL), but what you were doing was unsolicited and is, therefore, spam and against the ToS or one of thiose things. It's not allowed.

I didn't give it enough thought when I posted previously.

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

Just ask first.  If you ask them if they'd be interested in visiting your shop, then they'll have the chance to say, "Sure," (in which case you give them the LM) or, "No, thank you" (in which case you don't).

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That sounds like "can I have a moment of your time to talk about God's good news" or "can I interest you in our super cheap insurances?". I can (and will) decline, but it's still pretty annoying.

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True, but you at least have the chance to decline.  Personally, I think the OP has issues understanding how to navigate basic social interaction.  Just fishing for compliments in such a blatant manner is usually frowned upon by most people... but, to add to that, the spamming of those that are kind enough to respond positively with an unwelcome LM to your store, is way over the top.  Uncouth is the word that keeps coming to mind.

...Dres

[Codex Alpha]

Do what you want.

Showing people around your new design, or a new feature on your land to have fun, and advertisting that fact is fine.

Spam is defined as any action that you do repeatedly, to the point of obvious annoyance to those around you. Sharing a cool landmark, event or otherwise is fine.

In fact, I'm all for more communication between SL users, since for the most part they are pretty antisocial to start with, so anything to get them talking or animated is better than the dull quiet experince SL has become.

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

 

Could you get banned from SL for it? No.

 

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Yes you can.

6.2 You agree that you will not post or transmit Content or code that may be harmful, impede other users' functionality, invade other users' privacy, or surreptitiously or negatively impact any system or network.

You agree to respect both the integrity of the Service and the privacy of other users. You will not:

(ii) Post or transmit unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, or promotional materials, that are in the nature of "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation that Linden Lab considers to be of such nature

Unsolicited. as in. "Here, have a copy of my stores LM." to everyone around you. That can get you banned from SL. If enough people report it. I'm with Perrie on this one, I just AR and boot.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Here's a question the hasn't been asked yet, or answered if it has.. Where was this spamming going on?

[Canoro Philipp]

you arent doing anything wrong unless you are advertising in a sim that forbids it.

advirtising in SL is not against the TOS, if it was, nobody would know about a certain product or service until by luck your store gets in their view. its ok to advertise.

i dont see anything harmful about your way of advertising, you are offering a view of a sample of your skills, and giving them an easy way to aquire that product, or maybe some related ones with the quality of your skills.

it is not spam, spam is to repetadly advertise to a single person, even if that person dont want to recieve any more advertising.

i find your style to be creative adveritsing, it may be unusual, some people may not want it, and for that, they have the option to reject it. you are not forcing people to anything.

your style of advertising is ok, as long as it is not done in sims that forbids it.

[Antumbra]

I was just in a sandbox... didn't know I couldn't do it in a sandbox i wasn't in a store or anything 

[Antumbra]

I totally agree with you everyone on sl are so uptight and so antisocial!!! When I walk into a place I want to see everyone speaking to each other as if it was real life not quiet because everyone is in private message. It just looks like a place full of parked avatars and in fact very boring. I think some people need to loosen up and not take everything so seriously. Also by invading their "privacy" its not like i'm bumping into them or anything I just asked them a simple question. I don't see what the big deal is. If you don't wanna go then don't go? No need to make such a big deal out of something. Like seriously just loosen up. 

[Antumbra]

EXACTLY MY POINT! I'm not FORCING them to do anything it's not like i'm sending them messages and the LM over and over and over again telling them to go to my store! I just ask them politely and if they say yes then i'll send them an LM and if they choose not to go than ok! I don't care! It's not like i'm FORCING anyone to do anything! Just because I like to be out and about speaking to strangers asking them questions and also I made some new friends that way also FYI! doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Just because i'm not antisocial like everyone else on second life does that make me bad person who should be banned from sl for just trying to speak to people? It's not like i'm harrassing anybody and some creators I've met actually gave me their LM also so it's like a trading thing. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Antumbra wrote:

I totally agree with you everyone on sl are so uptight and so antisocial!!! When I walk into a place I want to see everyone speaking to each other as if it was real life

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Except you're example is not social, but commercial. Its using a pretext of social to actually push product.

If you genuinely came up to me and asked about your outfit, I'd love the conversation. But if you used that to make a sales pitch at me, I'd feel used.

In 'real life' I don't walk up to someone, spark up a conversation, and then toss in a sales pitch.

Even if I'm a salesperson (read "The Trusted Advisor" to see how to do RL sales right). I would never use deceptive inducement as a sales tactic. If I were selling a product, I'd be upfront and honest about that from the outset - so the person could trust me and like me knowing what the relationship is premised around.

And if I'm being social, I'm not going to pitch my friends 'out of the blue'. If I wanted to have an Avon party type moment... I'd declare that upfront so people know why we're all sitting down and chatting.

 

Be social if you want social.

 

Context Collapse is what this is about. Know the context of your interraction. If you collapse context on people, it can be jarring and very uncomfortable. Or maybe I'm looking for a term like 'context cross' rather than 'context collapse'.

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Antumbra wrote:

I totally agree with you everyone on sl are so uptight and so antisocial!!! When I walk into a place I want to see everyone speaking to each other as if it was real life not quiet because everyone is in private message. It just looks like a place full of parked avatars and in fact very boring. I think some people need to loosen up and not take everything so seriously. Also by invading their "privacy" its not like i'm bumping into them or anything I just asked them a simple question. I don't see what the big deal is. If you don't wanna go then don't go? No need to make such a big deal out of something. Like seriously just loosen up. 

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Communication in SL can be quite difficult at times.  It's not just people being "anti social." 

There are clubs I go to because I enjoy all the banter in local chat.  Other times I am may just want to be enjoying a nice dance and private chat with a date.

The thing is I can only juggle so many conversations at one time.  Sometimes when I am at a club I set an auto response, "While I am here I don't answer Private Messages.  I will try to get back with you later."  It's not that I am anti social.  It's just that my poor Martian brain can only handle so much sensory input before it implodes.

Now as far as my reply to you in this Thread, it has nothing to do with being 'uptight.'  I answered a specific case scenario.  You are asking "what do you think about my outfit" with the specific intent of promoting your store.  So you are not just trying to be friendly.

On the other side of this I am friendly.  If I see something exceptionally nice, both male and female, it's not uncommon for me to PM a compliment.  I will probably already have checked the profile before I message them.  So you see I'm not being anti-social.  I am just already very busy.

Now if you message me to take an interest in something about me, that is socializing.

Messaging me to promote your store is Advertising.   And when I'm out and about I'm not doing it to be advertised to.

On a last note, I know that there are some places that are notorious for no one talking.  Sometimes people go there specifically because of that when they want some quiet time.  

This is just one of those things that I think a little bit of understanding goes a long way. 

[Sy Beck]

Your dress sucks especially seeing as you had to resort to a forum appeal to check it out...which I didn't, because you never make them in my size.