Skilled gaming policy just another LL fiasco

[Chronalis Rexen]

Points of interest:

1. This "policy" reads more like another money grab than anything charging land owners and content creators for the honor of bringing content into this world.  Content creators aren't even supposed to work on projects without having paid the fees for this honor . . . sorry Skill Gaming application . . .

2.  It has already been postponed by a month THEN they (LL) engage their rules 3 days before the end of the new timetable BEFORE a 3 day weekend. 

3.  People that work for gameing sims have to jump through their asses to try and explain this new fiasco as LL writes their policy in a way that makes half assed sense to normal people and as usual it is implemented in a substandard nature excluding people that don't even live in the USA.

THANK YOU LL for another PITA half assed policy(money grab), half assed process, half assed explaination, and half assed implementation.

[Bobbie Faulds]

Before you scream at LL, it's in all probability being done because of an outside agency imposing rules on LL. inworld betting was closed because of it being classified as offshore betting and the US government wanting LL to start issuing 1099 to those that gambled, way too much paperwork for what SL is supposed to be.

As for moving the gaming to one area...all I can say is YAY. Can't tell you how  many have complained about not being able to get to the home and land they paid for because of a gaming area set up on the same sim filling it up. At least the policy will stop that from happening. Shrugs.

[Drew Bhalti]

This is being done so LL is in compliance legally with what is required by federal law and the IRS.  I'm sorry you feel this is all an LL doing.

 

If things would of been left up to LL, they would of never enforced much of anything, as in the past as we've seen, that gaming, banks and other forms were very much unregulated and uncontrolled until LL was forced to make the changes nesscary to remain legal and operational.    such they are doing the same now.   

[MBeatrix]

As for moving the gaming to one area...all I can say is YAY. Can't tell you how  many have complained about not being able to get to the home and land they paid for because of a gaming area set up on the same sim filling it up. At least the policy will stop that from happening.

Yes. YAY^10! Gaming has only messed up mainland, and I'm so glad it's not going to be allowed in it anymore.

[Chronalis Rexen]

SSDD

 

I wonder how many of you brainiacs will be so cheerful when they figure out that by definition and the letter of their "policy" gatcha machines have to be moved to gameing regions . . .

 

Don't like your neighbours . . . Move.

[irihapeti]

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Chronalis Rexen wrote:

I wonder how many of you brainiacs will be so cheerful when they figure out that by definition and the letter of their "policy" gatcha machines have to be moved to gameing regions . . .

 

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best to read the policy before make this assertion

[Bobbie Faulds]

Gachas aren't gaming. You always get something for your money. What you get is random. Skill games you may or may not get anything. That's the difference.

[Dillon Levenque]

Don't know that I'm a brainiac (even thouigh I think I'm smarter than the avesrage carnivore) but I could not possibly care less about gatcha, never having seen a gatcha game. As for casino games...pfft.

 

[Chronalis Rexen]

• “Skill Game” or “Skill Gaming” shall mean a game, implemented through an Inworld object: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and is not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance; 2) requires or permits the payment of Linden Dollars to play; 3) provides a payout in Linden Dollars; and 4) is legally authorized by applicable United States and international law. Games in which Second Life residents do not pay to play are not within the scope of this Skill Gaming Policy. “Skill Games” are not intended to include and shall not include “gambling” as defined by applicable United States and international law.

as quoted from the policy . . .

Line 1 states a game, implemented through an Inworld object: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance.   

The outcome of a gatcha . . . is pure chance, by the policy no gatcha game legal as your outcome is wholy by chance.  If at any time LL decides to get rid of gatchas they can use this policy to do so.

 

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Chronalis Rexen wrote:

SSDD

 

I wonder how many of you brainiacs will be so cheerful when they figure out that by definition and the letter of their "policy" gatcha machines have to be moved to gameing regions . . .

 

Don't like your neighbours . . . Move.

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Wouldn't bother me.  I don't use gatchas.  If you want a particular item in them you end up spending more to get it than you would if you bought it outright IMO.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Chronalis Rexen wrote:

• “Skill Game”
   or 
  “Skill Gaming”
   shall mean a game, implemented through an Inworld object: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and is not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance; 2) requires or permits the payment of Linden Dollars to play; 3) provides a payout in Linden Dollars; and 4) is legally authorized by applicable United States and international law. Games in which Second Life residents do not pay to play are not within the scope of this Skill Gaming Policy. “Skill Games” are not intended to include and shall not include “gambling” as defined by applicable United States and international law.

as quoted from the policy . . .

Line 1 states a game, implemented through an Inworld object: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance.   

The outcome of a gatcha . . . is pure chance, by the policy no gatcha game legal as your outcome is wholy by chance.  If at any time LL decides to get rid of gatchas they can use this policy to do so.

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Oh, good grief.  You quote....but you don't comprehend.

Yes, gatcha is a "chance" game....and not a Skill Game.  Therefore, it doesn't fall under the rules of the Skill Game policy. 

That doesn't mean that it's not allowed in SL.   It just means that it isn't part of any "skilled" game policy, and isn't going to be in a skilled game area. 

[jwenting]

only way gatchas might be affected is if the value of the items they give out is not constant (iow you pay 50L$, and get either something that sells normally for 20, 50, or 100 L$).

And a gatcha that did that would not fall under the skill gaming policy but under the far older wagering and gambling policy, making it a TOS violation to have one at all.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Chronalis Rexen wrote:

• “Skill Game”
   or 
  “Skill Gaming”
   shall mean a game, implemented through an Inworld object: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and is not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance; 2) requires or permits the payment of Linden Dollars to play; 3) provides a payout in Linden Dollars; and 4) is legally authorized by applicable United States and international law. Games in which Second Life residents do not pay to play are not within the scope of this Skill Gaming Policy. “Skill Games” are not intended to include and shall not include “gambling” as defined by applicable United States and international law.

as quoted from the policy . . .

Line 1 states a game, implemented through an Inworld object: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance.   

The outcome of a gatcha . . . is pure chance, by the policy no gatcha game legal as your outcome is wholy by chance.  If at any time LL decides to get rid of gatchas they can use this policy to do so.

 

 

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Didn't you say a few posts up that they would be legal but would have to be moved to skill-gaming regions?

[Bobbie Faulds]

“Skill Game” or “Skill Gaming” shall mean a game, implemented through an Inworld object: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and is not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance; 2) requires or permits the payment of Linden Dollars to play; 3) provides a payout in Linden Dollars; and 4) is legally authorized by applicable United States and international law. Games in which Second Life residents do not pay to play are not within the scope of this Skill Gaming Policy. “Skill Games” are not intended to include and shall not include “gambling” as defined by applicable United States and international law.

Please note #3. Gachas do not payout in Linden Dollars but in merchandise. As such, they are not skilled gaming.

[Qie Niangao]

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Chronalis Rexen wrote:

I wonder how many of you brainiacs will be so cheerful when they figure out that by definition and the letter of their "policy" gatcha machines have to be moved to gameing regions . . .

---

Personally, I despise gacha machines. They're the Flappy Bird of commerce. But it apparently doesn't matter, according to the lawyer who presented all about the policy (transcript) not quite a month ago. Gachas and breedables and anything similarly veiling the L$ value of outcomes, they're all just fine.

(FWIW, I think that explanation is simplistic because, taken at face value, it would permit blatant gambling of all kinds as long as it pays out in an intermediate token immediately redeemable for L$ or RL currency -- and that's wrong enough to earn the gambling machine owner a stay in RL prison.)

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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Chronalis Rexen wrote:

I wonder how many of you brainiacs will be so cheerful when they figure out that by definition and the letter of their "policy" gatcha machines have to be moved to gameing regions . . .

---

Personally, I despise gacha machines. They're the

Flappy Bird

of commerce. But it apparently doesn't matter, according to the lawyer who presented all about the policy

(transcript)

 

not quite a month ago. Gachas and breedables and anything similarly veiling the L$ value of outcomes, they're all just fine.

(FWIW, I think that explanation is simplistic because, taken at face value, it would permit blatant gambling of all kinds as long as it pays out in an intermediate token immediately redeemable for L$ or RL currency -- and that's wrong enough to earn the gambling machine owner a stay in RL prison.)

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The difference between gacha/breedables and the tokens you mention is that the tokens would have immediate and fixed values. A rare gacha item only has the value someone wants to give it.

Actually most major real-world gambling uses chips instead of cash, and real-world cash itself has little intrinsic value when you get right down to it. There was a counterfeiting operation that was able to make "$100 bills" with newsprint that sent through a household printer and then covered with hairspray to fool counterfeit-detecting pens.

If you considered anything that had a random chance of producing something that someone would consider to be much more valuable than your up-front cost to be gambling, then making a grilled-cheese sandwich would be gambling:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6511148/ns/us_news-weird_news/t/virgin-mary-grilled-cheese-sells/

[Qie Niangao]

I agree that this makes a lot more sense than what the lawyer said, which was that it only matters that the payout not be denominated in L$s.

[daisybloomer]

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Chronalis Rexen wrote:

• “Skill Game”
   or 
  “Skill Gaming”
   shall mean a game, implemented through an Inworld object: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and is not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance; 2) requires or permits the payment of Linden Dollars to play; 3) provides a payout in Linden Dollars; and 4) is legally authorized by applicable United States and international law. Games in which Second Life residents do not pay to play are not within the scope of this Skill Gaming Policy. “Skill Games” are not intended to include and shall not include “gambling” as defined by applicable United States and international law.

as quoted from the policy . . .

Line 1 states a game, implemented through an Inworld object: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance.   

The outcome of a gatcha . . . is pure chance, by the policy no gatcha game legal as your outcome is wholy by chance.  If at any time LL decides to get rid of gatchas they can use this policy to do so.

 

 

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The definition of a Skill Game requires all 4 conditions to be met in the part you quoted. Gatchas do not both take and pay out L, so it would not fall under the new skill gaming policy.

[Lewis Luminos]

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Chronalis Rexen wrote:

• “Skill Game”
   or 
  “Skill Gaming”
   shall mean a game, implemented through an Inworld object: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and
  is not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance;
  2) requires or permits the payment of Linden Dollars to play;
  3) provides a payout in Linden Dollars;
  and 4) is legally authorized by applicable United States and international law. Games in which Second Life residents do not pay to play are not within the scope of this Skill Gaming Policy. “Skill Games” are not intended to include and shall not include “gambling” as defined by applicable United States and international law.

 

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Gachas are not included in Skill Gaming policy.  They are random and they do not pay out cash so the rules do not apply to them.