Sim has been copybotted

[8f8]

Yesterday I got really sad hearing that one of my creators collection was copybotted before even the new release.

Today I got a message from my friend and sim owner that her sim was compybotted totally.

My question now is,

can this even be filed to DMCA? Someone completely copybotting your sim with others creators content?

This sim has been part of SL for a very long time and it's very distinct and special.

If any LL support is here, my question is, is this what SL has become?

Our content copyotted on daily bases and now even sims?

 

I'm emotional right now.

But this is getting out of hands.

 

This is real money invested in that sim. Lots of it.

 

I'm really upset.

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

8f8 wrote:

Yesterday I got really sad hearing that one of my creators collection was copybotted before even the new release.

Today I got a message from my friend and sim owner that her sim was compybotted totally.

My question now is,

can this even be filed to DMCA? Someone completely copybotting your sim with others creators content?

This sim has been part of SL for a very long time and it's very distinct and special.

If any LL support is here, my question is, is this what SL has become?

Our content copyotted on daily bases and now even sims?

 

I'm emotional right now.

But this is getting out of hands.

 

This is real money invested in that sim. Lots of it.

 

I'm really upset.

 

---

I'm really trying to fathom "an entire SIM" being copied and then replicated.

Each and every texture would need to be uploaded to SL or a script used to apply the UUID to each and every object.  What a huge undertaking that would be. 

As far as a Linden answering a question here, it's a very rare event that they do.

If your friend "owns" the SIM then they could talk to concierge level support for advice though even they are limited what they can do.

Legally speaking only the copyright holder can file a DMCA Notice.

But that doesn't mean that Linden Lab can't take down content on their own, though I am unaware of them ever really doing this.  That can be a bee's nest all of its own.

[Derek Torvalar]

Is it that time of year when the loons begin falling from the sky? And if so, why do they always land here?

[8f8]

Maybe.

I guess it's okay than. Thank you for your valuable and helpful reply.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Derek Torvalar wrote:

Is it that time of year when the loons begin falling from the sky? And if so, why do they always land here?

---

I thought about it and couldn't wrap my head around it.

Maybe I was just being nice.

I did think of saying, "SLURLs" or it didn't happen.  But then I thought someone smarter than me would come along and explain exactly how it was done. 

But now I willl take the risk of saying it.

SLURLs or it didn't happen.

 

[Pamela Galli]

It has happened before -- whole sims being duplicated. There was a website devoted to showing parts of the original sim and the duplicated ones filling another sim, with both buildings and content. 

[Perrie Juran]

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

It has happened before -- whole sims being duplicated. There was a website devoted to showing parts of the original sim and the duplicated ones filling another sim, with both buildings and content. 

---

Then I will stand down from what I said.

But still, what a massive undertaking.

 

ETA:  That does not mean that I wouldn't still want to see it with my own eyes.

[Kylie Jaxxon]

When I heard of this on another site, I pulled up on the map, the sim that they named...from the topographical view of the map, it did look exactly like the other sim Can't say about individual content down there, but from above, had the same layout, etc...I believe her

[Pamela Galli]

It would not be hard to do, Perrie, just select and take a copy.

[markkemp]

Actually, you do sort of own copyright to your sim in a way.

When you use copyrighted things and modify them significantly and then mix them with other copyrighted things it can become something new entirely.

That's what artists do often is they take ideas and imagery and mix it up so that it becomes something "new".

For example, if I built a medieval city in my private sim out of textures, meshes and so forth that were owned by someone else (and that I had bought legitimately). And then took a screenshot of my medieval city - then I would own 100% copyright to that screenshot.

Practically speaking though I am not sure you could do much.

I'm sure the creators that were copied would think differently though. And there should be enough proactive ones if you go around contacting to get the person repeatedly DMCA'd and then banned.

[Perrie Juran]

 

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

It would not be hard to do, Perrie, just select and take a copy.

---

I am aware of the "anyone can copy" setting.

However the default is "off."  And even with Firestorm's Building Preferences there is no way I know of to change that default. 

Nor is there a way to overide it even with an Illegal viewer because that is enforced by the Server.

To build an entire SIM with "take copy" enabled would be a huge mistake and undertaking and would have required the BUilder to set it.

However, if the Creator had enabled it one can't really cry "thief."  I'm not saying it wouldn't be unethical but the presumption would be that they had allowed it.

[MBeatrix]

[...] To build an entire SIM with "take copy" enabled would be a huge mistake and undertaking and would have required the BUilder to set it. [...]

I don't know much about how copybots work, but I can tell you that I run a few sims offline on my own computer, using OpenSim software, and copying or restoring a whole region and all its contents requires only a simple command. Still, I don't think it would be possible to upload a full region to SL and all its contents just like that, besides the costs of it all... Unless there is a hole in the system — must be an huge hole, then.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

I am aware of the "anyone can copy" setting.

However the default is "off."  And even with Firestorm's Building Preferences there is no way I know of to change that default. 

Nor is there a way to overide it even with an Illegal viewer because that is enforced by the Server.

---

Yeah, that's not how it works. We probably don't want to go into a tutorial on the details of how illegal viewers make illicit copies, but it's really not that difficult nor clever, just painstaking and tedious -- exactly the sort of thing for which computers are perfectly suited.

One thing, though: any of the original stuff that is scripted will be just a lump of inert garbage in the copy. Same pretty pixels, but dead as a doornail. (That's different on OpenSim because copies can be made right on the simulator, not by downloading content through the normal viewing process. This is also why the old hypergrid jive never stood a chance with content anybody cared about.)

[Pamela Galli]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

 

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

It would not be hard to do, Perrie, just select and take a copy.

---

I am aware of the "anyone can copy" setting.

However the default is "off."  And even with Firestorm's Building Preferences there is no way I know of to change that default. 

Nor is there a way to overide it even with an Illegal viewer because that is enforced by the Server.

To build an entire SIM with "take copy" enabled would be a huge mistake and undertaking and would have required the BUilder to set it.

However, if the Creator had enabled it one can't really cry "thief."  I'm not saying it wouldn't be unethical but the presumption would be that they had allowed it.

---

That is how it is done with illegal viewers, or so I have been told. Those just ignore permissions.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

A prim/sculpt build is trivially easy to clone, without incurring cost to the perpetrator. As long as you have the texture UUID you can apply textures to anything you like, and the UUID is easy to get even with the LL viewer. Cloning prims... I'd imagine a hacked viewer would be able to clone those easily too.

Mesh would IMO be trickier, as the perp would have to re-upload the mesh as far as I know.

To my knowledge, the only safe thing are scripts - though there was a bug a while ago that presumably allowed cloning scripts too, in objects you owned. I.e. not from someone elses objects.

Simple rule of thumb: If something is displayed on the viewer, it can be copied. Regardless whether there's any kind of protection on it. Look at e.g. DVD or BluRay discs or any kind of audio delivery out there. It's not even something new to the Internet. Audio tapes, even entire (paper) books got copied in the past, pre-Internet.

Sadly this won't change unless human society evolves drastically. The likelihood of that happening is in my opinion zero.

[Qie Niangao]

What would change it, I think, is for the 3D models and textures to never be delivered to the end-user for rendering, but rather to stream a near-video format, something like SL Go, as the only way of viewing content. This would add costs for server-side rendering, demand more network bandwidth, and introduce a significant control lag, but besides making it impractical / intractable to copy the actual content, it would open the platform to extreme low-end devices with poor 3D rendering performance.

The likelihood of that happening, too, is pretty low.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

I am aware of the "anyone can copy" setting.

However the default is "off."  And even with Firestorm's Building Preferences there is no way I know of to change that default. 

Nor is there a way to overide it even with an Illegal viewer because that is enforced by the Server.

---

Yeah, that's not how it works. We probably don't want to go into a tutorial on the details of how illegal viewers make illicit copies, but it's really not that difficult nor clever, just painstaking and tedious -- exactly the sort of thing for which computers are perfectly suited.

One thing, though: any of the original stuff that is

scripted

will be just a lump of inert garbage in the copy. Same pretty pixels, but dead as a doornail. (That's different on OpenSim because copies can be made right on the simulator, not by downloading content through the normal viewing process. This is also why the old hypergrid jive never stood a chance with content anybody cared about.)

---

Yes. I have a rudimentary understanding of how the 'copying' is done with the illegal viewers. 

My point was that it was not as simple as "Take Copy."  "Take Copy" means "Take into inventory."  It requires that the Server gives you a copy and the Server is not going to do that unless the permission is set.  It is not taking a copy as it exists locally on your computer.  It might have been more accurate if it had been named "Get a Copy."

[markkemp]

Copybotters discovered in ocean sim....HUGE SCENE:

They ignore permissions with these illegal viewers......

MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE 

MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE 

MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE MINE

 

[Tamara Artis]

I saw the notice last night... It was an amazing sim and this is terrible, LL can't do anything here on forums but your friend can file a DMCA. 

Also while its true that copying is a way of flattering there are certain limits and I would make sure to name and shame on SLU forums just to make sure everyone can see who these people are. 

[Vivienne Schell]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

The likelihood of

that

happening, too, is pretty low.

---

The likelihood of someone "copying" an entire sim by using this terrible OpenGL capturing tool is pretty low, too. I mean, the interesting question is: What for?

[Vivienne Schell]

---

name and shame on SLU forums

---

Why? The SLU forums are crowded by a vocal, mostly offline superminority without much clue except a clue on fishing for attention. They are great for the biased name, shame, hate and fame game anf therefore kinda highly entertaining, but posting there certainly isn´t an effective way to cope with potential copyright infringements.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Vivienne Schell wrote:

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

The likelihood of

that

happening, too, is pretty low.

---

The likelihood of someone "copying" an entire sim by using this terrible OpenGL capturing tool is pretty low, too. I mean, the interesting question is: What for?

---

Yeah. Just by way of explanation, I was off on a tangent, in this case a meander about OnLive-like content delivery, not so much about this particular sim being copybotted.

The "What for?" question is certainly apt, and was always my response to the copying of complete avatars in real time and in full view of the copied avatar. Maybe it was supposed to be funny? Or threatening somehow?

(Probably that ol' griefing practice is less common now that practically everybody's avatar is festooned with Mesh, which would make it pretty expensive to do just for the lulz of ripping every avatar on sight.)

[Vivienne Schell]

Indeed, tho some people have fun with subdividing and fiddling around with the default Linden Avi, cutting off hands and feet for Frankenstein like feet, hands and head applying, fitting it and selling it as their own, outstanding re-invention of the !!!!!MESH!!!!!.

More stunning, some people actually spend money on such things.

 

:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

[8f8]

My gratitude to those who actually tried to help with some useful advice.

 

For others, sim got copybotted. Period. Having only few posts here is not the same as being noob. 

Second. Hell if I know why would somebody go to the lenght of doing that.

Third the exposure we made of their doing made them change it to extent, it's not longer the same as the original.

So as far as I'm concerned this thread can be closed.

 

 

 

[Chronometria]

Usually with copied objects, its hard to trace the person doing it, as the objects end up all over the place. A whole sim, though.....surely that should be easily traced. I had a friend who was paid to design sims, sometimes by people like anshe chung, so i can certainly see there is value to such things.