Potentially Dangerous Error with Voice System

[Abram Violet]

Hello,

I have noticed that there is a glitch within the voice system that allows other residents to obtain your IP address through the voice system. I'm not sure of the means they use, but someone has told me that they use some kind of 3rd party program and get your IP through the voice system. They send you a voice call, and regardless of if you accept or decline it, they somehow get your IP address. I have had 3 different alts do this to me, then give me my own IP adress through IM/local chat. From there they can also lookup your city and other things. The only way to be safe from this 'glitch' is to keep your voice disabled. Anyone know of any way this could get fixed or ways to stop them from doing it other then completely disabling your voice?

Thanks,

Abe

[Bree Giffen]

I believe your ip can also be tracked when you listen to someone's radio/streaming media. All website owners can track your ip when you visit their sites. I wouldn't worry unless you have a static ip that identifies you specifically.

[Abram Violet]

I do have a static IP and I have also known of the media one for a while now as well and I never stream media unless it is from someone who I trust. I'm just saying that it's really annoying whenever you are just chatting with people and people get your IP address because of it. I called my ISP and notified them to keep an eye on the account as someone mentioned in an IM that they were contacting my ISP and going to try and mess around. (they also knew which internet provider I have because you can look that up with someone IP address)

 

I just think this sounds like something that would be simple to fix and/or put in an option to be able to automaticlly decline voice calls. Sometimes they have done it without even sending a voice call.

 

I spoke to a live agent about this matter and they told me this would be the best place to post my issue, as it is monitered and reviewed by lindens whatever department would handle this issue. There have been a lot of users being greifed with things like this and crashing servers for hours, and little to none has been done about it. So hopefully, just hopefully someone will see this post and do something about everyone just stealing IP's throuhg voice, and taking entire regions down for hours. I even report these things almost daily and this began well over 4 months ago.

 

Thanks,

Abe

[Celestiall Nightfire]

Use a proxy server, and you can hide your IP address.

[Abram Violet]

Tried that already

 

They can bypass the proxy and still see the IP. They have been doing this for months. They have even been callin in to linden labs and using information they obtained from this and guessing some users security questions.

[Paul Hexem]

---

Abram Violet wrote:

Tried that already

 

They can bypass the proxy and still see the IP. They have been doing this for months. They have even been callin in to linden labs and using information they obtained from this and guessing some users security questions.

---

If you're using a proxy and they still see your real IP, either you're doing it wrong or they're doing some pretty serious tracing, and I'd AR it.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

I suppose, if you're that concerned, that you could enable Only friends and groups can call or IM me.

[Abram Violet]

I did AR it. I have ARed it countless times over the past few months. Also, they can sometimes obtain it without sending a voice call. This is why I think this should be fixed. My ISP said that they should not be allowed ot have such a glitch in their system and games/platforms like this are supposed to fix those errors when presents. I don't know, maybe the Lindens will see this post and be able to find out what is the issue, patch it and no worries in my SL again.

 

Abe

[Storm Clarence]

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Abram Violet wrote:

They can bypass the proxy and still see the IP. 

---

No way.  It is just is not worth the effort.

[Nova Convair]

Proof and description of the technology?

If there is no more than a post with your statement, thats nothing but another rumour.

Any media access including the viewer2 media-on-a-prim stuff gives the ability to obtain your IP. Well not mine since I load no media. Nothing happens until I click. I don't know if the vivox voice system has a security hole but just believing that is not enough. People believe all kind of stuff while actually knowing nothing about it, so we'll see about that.

The IP allows to check for the location (city, not the adress) and allows for example a syn flood attack to take down your connection. Hacking possible if careless, never updating, using insecure stuff user at that IP - very improbable, a normal installation should be safe enough.

 

[Dilbert Dilweg]

To use voice i think it requires a direct connection between you and the other person/persons. Which allows you to see whom you are connected to or tried to connect to thru your Own PC. Netstat etc. Same with sharing a file. it requires sending data between 2 computers .

If it worries you then block calls from others like suggested above.

Potential danger just surfing the net period, if you ask me

[Qie Niangao]

According to the wiki, private voice chat is indeed peer-to-peer, so the users' IP addresses would be exposed to each other. For ordinary voice-on-a-parcel channel, it passes through the vivox servers, not peer-to-peer, so in theory the IP addresses would be private.  (In practice, however, there was a security lapse early on, allowing a bunch of unauthorized people to use the voice admin account, so even parcel voice was compromised then. I suppose that was remedied long ago.)

(And I agree that a properly configured proxy would make all this moot, but I don't think Second Life voice or media is worth the trouble or bandwidth--in general, but especially not through a proxy.)

[Rhys Goode]

I am very surprised you were told that posting here was the best way to bring this to the attention of the Lindens.  This is a user forum, and the lindens have made it very clear over the years that they do *not* monitor this on anything like a regular basis. 

I don't know of a reliable way to get the attention of the Lindens, but I do know that posting here is not it.

[JeanneAnne]

---

Abram Violet wrote:

Hello,

I have noticed that there is a glitch within the voice system that allows other residents to obtain your IP address through the voice system. I'm not sure of the means they use, but someone has told me that they use some kind of 3rd party program and get your IP through the voice system. They send you a voice call, and regardless of if you accept or decline it, they somehow get your IP address. I have had 3 different alts do this to me, then give me my own IP adress through IM/local chat. From there they can also lookup your city and other things. The only way to be safe from this 'glitch' is to keep your voice disabled. Anyone know of any way this could get fixed or ways to stop them from doing it other then completely disabling your voice?

Thanks,

Abe

---

It's well known that your IP can be ripped thru media channels. There's been an entire huge scandal over this. Discussion of it on this forum gets censored & can get you banned. Apparently, LL doesn't want newbies to know that their RL identity isn't necessarily anonymous in SL.

Jeanne

[Griffin Ceawlin]

---

Rhys Goode wrote:

I am very surprised you were told that posting here was the best way to bring this to the attention of the Lindens.  This is a user forum, and the lindens have made it very clear over the years that they do *not* monitor this on anything like a regular basis. 

I don't know of a reliable way to get the attention of the Lindens, but I do know that posting here is not it.

---

LOL. That's correct.

@OP: If you think it's worth it, creation of a JIRA issue may be recommended.

[Abram Violet]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Abram Violet wrote:

Hello,

I have noticed that there is a glitch within the voice system that allows other residents to obtain your IP address through the voice system. I'm not sure of the means they use, but someone has told me that they use some kind of 3rd party program and get your IP through the voice system. They send you a voice call, and regardless of if you accept or decline it, they somehow get your IP address. I have had 3 different alts do this to me, then give me my own IP adress through IM/local chat. From there they can also lookup your city and other things. The only way to be safe from this 'glitch' is to keep your voice disabled. Anyone know of any way this could get fixed or ways to stop them from doing it other then completely disabling your voice?

Thanks,

Abe

---

It's well known that your IP can be ripped thru media channels. There's been an entire huge scandal over this. Discussion of it on this forum gets censored & can get you banned. Apparently, LL doesn't want newbies to know that their RL identity isn't necessarily anonymous in SL.

Jeanne

---

#1.) I'm referring to your IP being accessed through the voice channel, not the medial channels.

#2.) They access this information not by being in a private call. They access it any time you are connected to the voice server.

#3.) Let them ban me because this is what I was told to do by a live support member. I am not here for anyone's opinions or comments besides someone who is part of Linden Labs. I'm not here for people to make some kind of discussion of this say 'this is rumors' or any other off topic comments just to get a word in edge wise.

#4.) I'm not a newbie. I been on SL since 2006. I only have this posted to be answered by Linden's like I was told to by an employee. You all can have fun talking about something you have no idea about. I'll wait for a Linden now as this is not an issue that can be answered by your average users as it would require action on their end to fix this error. Oh, and I am already in the process of starting a pepition against Linden Labs to make them fix this error. If something would happen to someone because they could access personal information threw their service, you could have a potential lawsuit. My ISP informed me that was true with platforms such as Second Life.

 

HOPEFULLY A LINDEN LOOKS AT THIS AND CAN SHOW ME A REAL ANSWER INSTEAD OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ON THE ISSUE, OR JUST WANNA LEAVE RUDE COMMENTS AND TELL ME I WILL BE BANNED IF I ASK A QUESTION. IF THAT IS THE CASE HERE, THEN I WILL GLADLY NEVER RETURN TO THIS FORUM AND JUST FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE BBB.

 :matte-motes-wink-tongue:

[Perrie Juran]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Abram Violet wrote:

Hello,

I have noticed that there is a glitch within the voice system that allows other residents to obtain your IP address through the voice system. I'm not sure of the means they use, but someone has told me that they use some kind of 3rd party program and get your IP through the voice system. They send you a voice call, and regardless of if you accept or decline it, they somehow get your IP address. I have had 3 different alts do this to me, then give me my own IP adress through IM/local chat. From there they can also lookup your city and other things. The only way to be safe from this 'glitch' is to keep your voice disabled. Anyone know of any way this could get fixed or ways to stop them from doing it other then completely disabling your voice?

Thanks,

Abe

---

It's well known that your IP can be ripped thru media channels. There's been an entire huge scandal over this. Discussion of it on this forum gets censored & can get you banned. Apparently, LL doesn't want newbies to know that their RL identity isn't necessarily anonymous in SL.

Jeanne

---

This subject of IP has been discussed quite thoroughly over the years in the Forums with great detail.  It is a very publicly known issue.

Any time you connect to anything on the Internet, your IP is involved.  That's a simple fact of the internet.

Perhaps LL could be more forth right with a warning message that it is a peer to peer connection but beyond this, what is the scandal?

If a thread about this got deleted or a person got banned it was for other reasons.

I will add, if you have facts and information you can show me contrariwise I'm willing to change my opinion. 

But to say that this topic is verboten, well, as I said, the subject of IP disclosure has been discussed many times at great length.

[JeanneAnne]

>> am not here for anyone's opinions or comments besides someone who is part of Linden Labs.<<

>>I only have this posted to be answered by Linden's ... <<

>>I'll wait for a Linden now ... <<

Lotsa luck Abram!

You may be in for a long wait !! :catlol:

Jeanne

 

[JeanneAnne]

>>I will add, if you have facts and information you can show me contrariwise I'm willing to change my opinion. <<

Perrie, I don't care if you change your opinion or not.

You've been around long enuf that you ought to be perfectly aware of the huge controversy over those superhero Rpers who call themselves "justice league" ripping IPs from media streams then harassing ppl they didnt like in RL. Trying to get ppl fired from their RL jobs or kicked outuv school over things that happened in SL. About how certain Lindens who were said to be friends w/ these fruitcakes may have colluded w/ em about this. It was a HUGE scandal & any discussion of it in this forum disappeared so it all moved over to SLU. If you're unaware of all this it's your issue, not mine.

Jeanne

[Perrie Juran]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

>>I will add, if you have facts and information you can show me contrariwise I'm willing to change my opinion. <<

Perrie, I don't care if you change your opinion or not.

You've been around long enuf that you ought to be perfectly aware of the huge controversy over those superhero Rpers who call themselves "justice league" ripping IPs from media streams then harassing ppl they didnt like in RL. Trying to get ppl fired from their RL jobs or kicked outuv school over things that happened in SL. About how certain Lindens who were said to be friends w/ these fruitcakes may have colluded w/ em about this. It was a

HUGE

scandal & any discussion of it in this forum disappeared so it all moved over to SLU. If you're unaware of all this it's your issue, not mine.

Jeanne

---

I am fully aware of the controversies surrounding the JLU and other 'police groups.'

It was the statement that any threads get pulled, people banned that I questioned.

Just typing the initials "JLU" into search on these boards gets me a dozen threads where JLU gets discussed.  There are probably more.

What I have seen pulled are posts naming names or posting chat logs which in general, for better or for worse, can and will get censored in this Forum regardless of the topic.

 

ETA, that does not mean I necessarily agree with the rule.  Simply that I acknowledge it.

[JeanneAnne]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

---

---

I am fully aware of the controversies surrounding the JLU and other 'police groups.'

It was the statement that any threads get pulled, people banned that I questioned.

Just typing the initials "JLU" into search on these boards gets me a dozen threads where JLU gets discussed.  There are probably more.

What I have seen pulled are posts naming names or posting chat logs which in general, for better or for worse, can and will get censored in this Forum regardless of the topic.

 

ETA, that does not mean I necessarily agree with the rule.  Simply that I acknowledge it.

---

Ok Perrie .. Fair enuf ..

When I 1st hearda bout all this I was shocked & wanted to know more about it & started asking questions. I was warned by several people that I was going to have my posts deleted ~which happened btw~ & would get banned for even mentioning it .. & if I wanted to knowa bout it I should come over to SLU where it was being discussed freely .. So I did for awhile. Just reading the summary about all this creepy stuff took me an entire morning! Ppl were saying it was Redzone all over again .. which was be4 my time so I dont know mucha bout it. Ppl were posting chat logs over there & quoting from the Wiki & telling who said & did what when. Many of the allegations seemed very well documented. All such discussion of this stuff got censored here. The OP to this thread wants to knowa bout IP addies getting ripped. The whole JLU scandal pertains directly to this issue. It's happened & there have been serious RL consequences from it happening. It can still happen. Ppl who play SL need to know that others can get their IPs & find out who & where they are in RL. That's the whole point, far as I'm concerned. Feel free to disagree if you want to ...

Jeanne

[Ceka Cianci]

this is just a general statement and not aimed at anyone =)

my whole outlook is..just because LL allows it  does not mean it isn't a security risk..

these things fall back on the TOS and LL selling it as..well if it's allowed then it's not a risk..

since RZ i now look at any site through a proxy to see what they are about before i trust them..

sites linking from second life that only show a user name not tied to any kind of trusting information..chances are i'll just not be using it..because i'm not giving up mine unless they put a little risk out there as well..

all these games wanting you to connect from your viewer to their website for verification..pfft

ya right..fat chance..just cause LL allows it here doesn't mean they are not a security risk just using another way to clump up information on users..it doesn't have to be in world to be unsafe..just legit enough to be in world is all..

i'll never be that tempted to play a game in SL lol

a lot of people in second life toss around their information like it's going out of style..then want to blame someone when they get bit..

people should look at sl as they do any other part of being secure on the net..because we don't step off the net when we step in here..

if there are holes they will be found and used and exploited  as much as possible..

if it can be done it should be looked at as it is being done..somewhere by someone..

not everyone will be that way..but it doesn't take a whole bunch to mess up a whole lot of people  really really quickly..

users should always try to be at the top of their security awareness..because one bite is all it takes to be a game changer..

 

 

 

 

[Melita Magic]

Not only voice but any channel that communicates to the outside. And social engineering, too.

Voice, music, video, web streaming.

Also if you go to someone's you tube channel or blog or website and they know when, they can get your IP from that. That kind of figures into social engineering. You get an IM saying hey look at this...you do...and now they know where you live.

It sucks, but, just be careful.

For what it is worth, I do not track anything. I really do not care where anybody lives, or anything else from their real lives. With one exception, I will console them (try to) if they are upset. So any streams on my land are never looked at by me. Well, I couldn't even if I wanted to. Or if I could I don't know and don't care. I use radios built by other people and a movie stream from a free website. I don't have access to those IPs. So for what it's worth if ever on my land, don't worry about any of that.* I'm a big believer in boundaries. Even if not everyone else extends me the same courtesy, but I can't control that. 

The infamous tracker is gone but there might be other ones out there, but even if not, if the person owns the stream they can see your IP. Or if they are wearing some device that can track IP. Or you go to their site, blog, or youtube channel.

 

* ETA Don't worry about any of that from me. If someone else visits that sim and is wearing some sort of tracker, it can use my open streams just like it could use any open stream in Second Life, but I think that possibility is rare.

[Abram Violet]

---

Melita Magic wrote:

Not only voice but any channel that communicates to the outside. And social engineering, too.

Voice, music, video, web streaming.

Also if you go to someone's you tube channel or blog or website and they know when, they can get your IP from that. That kind of figures into social engineering. You get an IM saying hey look at this...you do...and now they know where you live.

It sucks, but, just be careful.

For what it is worth, I do not track anything. I really do not care where anybody lives, or anything else from their real lives. With one exception, I will console them (try to) if they are upset. So any streams on my land are never looked at by me. Well, I couldn't even if I wanted to. Or if I could I don't know and don't care. I use radios built by other people and a movie stream from a free website. I don't have access to those IPs. So for what it's worth if ever on my land, don't worry about any of that.* I'm a big believer in boundaries. Even if not everyone else extends me the same courtesy, but I can't control that. 

The infamous tracker is gone but there might be other ones out there, but even if not, if the person owns the stream they can see your IP. Or if they are wearing some device that can track IP. Or you go to their site, blog, or youtube channel.

 

* ETA Don't worry about any of that from me. If someone else visits that sim and is wearing some sort of tracker, it can use my open streams just like it could use any open stream in Second Life, but I think that possibility is rare.

---

I'm not talking about youtube or blogs. People shouldn't be able to get your IP address just because you are connected to the voice channel. LL needs to look into patching it so that no one but them is able to see your IP by those means. My ISP said that anyone who owns a game or platform is not allowed to allow others to obtain your IP address. There are ways LL could stop this 'glitch' if they took the time out to look at it. They are using some type of program to obtain your IP any time you are on the voice channel regardless of if you are speaking, just have it on, or are in a private call. Hopefully someone at LL will see this thread and fix this error and make SL just that much more safe. Clicking links and other things where you are connecting to a website is a chance you are taking...but simply connecting to the game and voice being enabled should not allow access from other residents.

[Perrie Juran]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

---

I am fully aware of the controversies surrounding the JLU and other 'police groups.'

It was the statement that any threads get pulled, people banned that I questioned.

Just typing the initials "JLU" into search on these boards gets me a dozen threads where JLU gets discussed.  There are probably more.

What I have seen pulled are posts naming names or posting chat logs which in general, for better or for worse, can and will get censored in this Forum regardless of the topic.

 

ETA, that does not mean I necessarily agree with the rule.  Simply that I acknowledge it.

---

Ok Perrie .. Fair enuf ..

When I 1st hearda bout all this I was shocked & wanted to know more about it & started asking questions. I was warned by several people that I was going to have my posts deleted ~which happened btw~ & would get banned for even mentioning it .. & if I wanted to knowa bout it I should come over to SLU where it was being discussed freely .. So I did for awhile. Just reading the

summary

about all this creepy stuff took me an entire morning! Ppl were saying it was Redzone all over again .. which was be4 my time so I dont know mucha bout it. Ppl were posting chat logs over there & quoting from the Wiki & telling who said & did what when. Many of the allegations seemed very well documented. All such discussion of this stuff got censored here. The OP to this thread wants to knowa bout IP addies getting ripped. The whole JLU scandal pertains directly to this issue. It's happened & there have been serious RL consequences from it happening. It can still happen. Ppl who play SL need to know that others can get their IPs & find out who & where they are in RL. That's the whole point, far as I'm concerned. Feel free to disagree if you want to ...

Jeanne

---

Here's my take on things.

Anything I do or access on the Internet has a level or risk.  Given all the hype in the Media, how anyone could not know this would be a little hard for me to fathom.

So we take steps to protect ourselves.  Anti Virus, Firewall.  A few other anti spyware apps.  Some folks go another step and use proxies.  But I am aware that anything on the Internet, in order for it to work, needs to know my IP.  And the one great weakness of the Internet as far as privacy is concerned is that ultimately, my IP can be tied to me.

It sucks that there are people who would abuse this.  Big time as far as I'm concerned.

I think it is a big short coming on Linden Lab's part that they don't to the best of my knowledge provide a specific warning regarding Voice that it is a peer to peer connection so people can make an informed decision about using it.  Same with Media on a prim and DJ music streams. 

But on the other hand I can see the Media Zoo and headlines should Linden Lab be bolder about the warnings.  "Linden Lab Admits It's A Hackers Paradise."  Etc, etc.

So yes we should be careful.  But I refuse to live in fear.