Midnight Mania/Midnight Madness Boards are now against Skilled Gaming Policy?

[Elecktra Miami]

Some boards can be set to rollover mode (meaning everyone wins when the target is reached - no cutoff time).  That would take the element of chance away from a board used as a group board in a pay to join group.  The board definitely awards the prize to all clickers, as long as the merchant lets it run its course....or forces the prize delivery early if the board is stopped earlier.

But yes, LL needs to post these things...because new people join SL every day and aren't going to know the rules if they can't be found. Or perhaps they'll put the burden on the board creator to state this in instructions....not to use group mode in a pay to join group unless the board is in rollover mode (if indeeed this IS their policy). So far there's only word from one Linden on this.

[Elecktra Miami]

I forgot to say....rollover mode  isn't as fun....there's no challenge and the board usually takes a couple or 3 days to lock, sometimes longer depending on the target.  But it does bring traffic and some will go click it to help friends win it even if they don't need or want it, so it's fun in that way....seeing how fast you can get it to lock, I suppose....and there's community effort to lock it.  It's more fun if the same prize isn't left to run for too many cycles.

[Bobbie Faulds]

actually, if you look at it, it is a standart QWERTY keyboard just a different ergo design...shrugs...grins

[Coby Foden]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Oh, and I notice you have a problem with the "o" and the "d" on your keyboard. 

 

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It's not a problem with the 'o' and 'd' on the keyboard. It's a problem with my brain to finger co-ordination. As in this case, I usually type all the right letters but not necessarily in the right order

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As long as you use the following system then the rest of us, who have a strange mind, can still understand you. :matte-motes-big-grin:

 

[irihapeti]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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whats really interesting about this is that it gets easier to read as you go

by the end of the first sentence in the second paragraph my brain had adjusted and I never had to think about what the words spelled wrong meant

pretty cool i think and azanmig (:

whats the clever part about it is that is pretty much grammar perfect. i think

[Madelaine McMasters]

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irihapeti wrote:

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Coby Foden wrote:

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whats really interesting about this is that it gets easier to read as you go

by the end of the first sentence in the second paragraph my brain had adjusted and I never had to think about what the words spelled wrong meant

pretty cool i think and azanmig (:

whats the clever part about it is that is pretty much grammar perfect. i think

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What distinguishes the 45 from the 55, other than the (in)ability to read that paragraph?

 

 

Cognitive pyschology fascinates me. The more I pay attention to the workings of my own brain, the more I'm convinced I'm not alone in there.

[Snugs McMasters]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

The more I pay attention to the workings of my own brain, the more I'm convinced I'm not alone in there.

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You aren't alone in here, and if you're convinced of that, why do you continue to behave as if you are?

Hypocrite.

[Phoebe Avro]

If you can read it with ease as fast as reading normaly your brain is running about 50% faster than those that can't.

[Snugs McMasters]

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Phoebe Avro wrote:

If you can read it with ease as fast as reading normaly your brain is running about 50% faster than those that can't.

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I watch Maddy's half of the brain every day.

It's running in circles.

50% faster wouldn't help.

[Dillon Levenque]

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Phoebe Avro wrote:

If you can read it with ease as fast as reading normaly your brain is running about 50% faster than those that can't.

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I don't think it has to do with brains working faster. My experience was much like irihapeti's: I think I may have gone a little slow at the start but by the middle I was reading at my normal speed without thinking about it.

I'd not be surprised to learn that 55%/45% figure might be a bit overstated. Maybe they just let people look and the ones who said, "That's gibberish" were counted as unable to read it. I think anyone who reads a lot of english language text would probably be able to work through it if they were willing to spend the effort (or play along, which is what all of us were doing).

English is not only my first language, it's my only one. I have spent my whole life reading, to the point where people who know me expect to find me with 'my nose in a book'. If I go to jury duty or the airport or anyplace I expect to have to spend time just standing/sitting around I take a book with me. I suppose I'll cave in and go kindle or e-reader du jour at some point but I'm still working with books. Point is, I read a LOT. I think the fact I know English and I am so used to seeing words as words makes it easy for me to parse that gibberish (which it clearly was).

The first/last thing matters too. When I was in classes in which we had to take notes (as in, writing with primitive graphite or ink devices on paper: o the heroism!) I learned to abbreviate by leaving out vowels. So, "Clmbs arrvd smwhr nr Trndd 1498" would mean, "Columbus arrived (that would actually mean "made landfall') somewhere near (as in possibly at the island of) Trinidad in 1498". BTW I just made that whole scenario up. For all I know, Columbus was back in Spain for all of 1498. My shorthand makes perfect sense to me, but one of its keys is that it always contains the first and last (non-silent) letter. I'm used to translating that, which gives even more of a head start on tht gbbrsh bk thr.

[Phoebe Avro]

Actually it is directly related to brain speed, the paragraph was originally taken from an article about the research done at Cambridge University some years ago.

[Marishka Ixito]

 

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Phoebe Avro wrote:

Actually it is directly related to brain speed, the paragraph was originally taken from an article about the research done at Cambridge University some years ago.

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No, it's not taken from an article about research at Cambridge University..

For some more reading on the subject of jumbling the letters in words, and the origin of the jumbled text that was widely distributed on the internet I recommend
http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/people/matt.davis/cmabridge/  and
http://www.crcummins.com/CRCScrambled.pdf

[Elecktra Miami]

It looks like this issue's dead (the subject of this thread). Another mystery we'll never know the policy for, just like the sploders . 

[Perrie Juran]

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Elecktra Miami wrote:

It looks like this issue's dead (the subject of this thread). Another mystery we'll never know the policy for, just like the sploders . 

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Sploders are a mystery?

Really?

[Bobbie Faulds]

I'm still waiting for a replay back from the Lindens. 'Sploders have been illegal for a long time...you pay in money and a random generator pays out. Depending the spoloder, not everyone gets anything.....so they're gambling.

As soon as the Lindens reply to my question, I'll post it to the thread.

[Marishka Ixito]

The only thing you could say in defense of sploders is that most aren't run for profit. To the contrary, many sploders see the owner of the device putting in a significant share of the prize money. Nevertheless, I agree that they're illegal (and have been for a long time). LL not having done much to eradicate them from the grid doesn't change that.

As for the subject of the thread, although just about all midnight mania boards that require payment in some form or other (non-free groupmembership, parcel access fee, or otherwise) are currently "innocent" (as in: not used to intentionally bypass the "no gambling" rules), these boards will not see much future if LL aims to snuff out possible abuse.

However, if the sploder example can serve as a lead, I'd say it's not very likely we'll see a witchhunt to get rid of theoretically offending MM boards unless and until someone builds a true gambling device dressed up as an MM board. .

 

 

[Elecktra Miami]

Yes that's what I meant about the sploders.  I've seen a lot of residents post that they were illegal, unless skill was used to play, causing sploder creators to start making sploders with balloons to pop, coins to pick up, trivia questions to answer and who knows what else. But I never ever saw a post by the Lindens saying sploders were illegal and I guess no one else ever saw one either, since the regular old kind of non-skill sploder still remains after all these years in so many locations.  So, they're illegal but allowed to stay?  Or are t hey legal and it was only a rumor that they weren't. 

NickyMinaj's board was returned by a Linden and a ticket response explains why the board was returned but then the ticket ends with "it is not a violation", so which is it?  I don't know if that means she can put her board back since hundreds of merchants still use group boards in a pay to join group....or not.  To me that's a mystery until they make it clear in the policy.

If you haven't viewed it yet, the ticket response is here  LL Skill Gaming - CasperTech Wiki .

Just saying....it's not fair that she was singled out and that no announcement has been made in the policy saying you can't use a group only board in a pay to join group....and everyone else can continue to use theirs while she can't. 

 

 

[Bobbie Faulds]

As I nderstand the reply, It was returned because the Gov8 Linden saw it just as a game of chance because of havig to pay to get into the group and that it didn't always pay out (ie the goal wasn't reached).

We have since reviewed the general operating premise of this scenario, and have decided that -- given the behavior outlined above -- it is not a violation of the Terms of Service or any Policy referenced within.

So they reviewed the decision that was made and decided it wasn't a violation.  So MM boards are good to go. Which is a good thin given how many stores use them.

[Phil Deakins]

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Elecktra Miami wrote:

Yes that's what I meant about the sploders.  I've seen a lot of residents post that they were illegal, unless skill was used to play, causing sploder creators to start making sploders with balloons to pop, coins to pick up, trivia questions to answer and who knows what else. But I never ever saw a post by the Lindens saying sploders were illegal and I guess no one else ever saw one either, since the regular old kind of non-skill sploder still remains after all these years in so many locations.  So, they're illegal but allowed to stay?  Or are t hey legal and it was only a rumor that they weren't. 

NickyMinaj's board was returned by a Linden and a ticket response explains why the board was returned but then the ticket ends with "it is not a violation", so which is it?  I don't know if that means she can put her board back since hundreds of merchants still use group boards in a pay to join group....or not.  To me that's a mystery until they make it clear in the policy.

If you haven't viewed it yet, the ticket response is here  

LL Skill Gaming - CasperTech Wiki

 .

Just saying....it's not fair that she was singled out and that no announcement has been made in the policy saying you can't use a group only board in a pay to join group....and everyone else can continue to use theirs while she can't.  

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It's not a mystery. The response explained the reason why the board  was returned, which is exactly the reason why Pandarania's board was returned. Then it said that they have reviewed the scenario and decided that it's not a violation of any policy, which, of course, includes the skill gaming policy. So she can, and probably has, put the board back up - and so can Pandarania.

I imagine that the person who returned them was laughed at in the office for doing it - seriously.

[irihapeti]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Elecktra Miami wrote:

Yes that's what I meant about the sploders.  I've seen a lot of residents post that they were illegal, unless skill was used to play, causing sploder creators to start making sploders with balloons to pop, coins to pick up, trivia questions to answer and who knows what else. But I never ever saw a post by the Lindens saying sploders were illegal and I guess no one else ever saw one either, since the regular old kind of non-skill sploder still remains after all these years in so many locations.  So, they're illegal but allowed to stay?  Or are t hey legal and it was only a rumor that they weren't. 

NickyMinaj's board was returned by a Linden and a ticket response explains why the board was returned but then the ticket ends with "it is not a violation", so which is it?  I don't know if that means she can put her board back since hundreds of merchants still use group boards in a pay to join group....or not.  To me that's a mystery until they make it clear in the policy.

If you haven't viewed it yet, the ticket response is here  

LL Skill Gaming - CasperTech Wiki

 .

Just saying....it's not fair that she was singled out and that no announcement has been made in the policy saying you can't use a group only board in a pay to join group....and everyone else can continue to use theirs while she can't.  

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It's not a mystery. The response explained the reason why the board  was returned, which is exactly the reason why Pandarania's board was returned. Then it said that they have reviewed the scenario and decided that it's not a violation of any policy, which, of course, includes the skill gaming policy. So she can, and probably has, put the board back up - and so can Pandarania.

I imagine that the person who returned them was laughed at in the office for doing it - seriously.

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yes agree

can really convolute the thinking on these kinds of things sometimes. To the point of paralysis

seems like wiser heads in LL have prevailed

ps. i am expert on convoluted thinking so (:

[daisybloomer]

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Elecktra Miami wrote:

I don't know if that means she can put her board back since hundreds of merchants still use group boards in a pay to join group....or not.  To me that's a mystery until they make it clear in the policy.

If you haven't viewed it yet, the ticket response is here  

LL Skill Gaming - CasperTech Wiki

 .

Just saying....it's not fair that she was singled out and that no announcement has been made in the policy saying you can't use a group only board in a pay to join group....and everyone else can continue to use theirs while she can't. 

 

 

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No, I would not suggest putting the board back as the support ticket clearly shows there was a violation. Only way she can place the board back is if she does not charge a group join fee or makes it not a requirement to join the group to play.

As far as your claim about hundreds of merchants that have group MM boards that require a group fee to join....I don't know how you came up with that statistic, but a little proof please? From my own experiences, every since place I have seen a MM board around it is either not a requirement to join a group to play or you can join the group for free to play.

 

[daisybloomer]

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

As I nderstand the reply, It was returned because the Gov8 Linden saw it just as a game of chance because of havig to pay to get into the group and that it didn't always pay out (ie the goal wasn't reached).

We have since reviewed the general operating premise of this scenario, and have decided that -- given the behavior outlined above -- it is not a violation of the Terms of Service or any Policy referenced within.

So they reviewed the decision that was made and decided it wasn't a violation.  So MM boards are good to go. Which is a good thin given how many stores use them.

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There was never an issue with the MM boards in general as an object. I tried to explain this earlier in the thread with the issue being the group join fee and it having an element of chance and you said it was unrealistic and now you've jumped to the other side of the fence...facepalm.

As for that section of the support ticket response you highlighted in blue, I think that is in reference to the general operation of an MM board. I do not think it was in reference to NickyMinaj's pay-to-play setup being cleared as if that was the case they would not have indicated in the paragraph before that there was a violation.

"Unfortunately what did cause the violation is that in order to use it, they had to pay a fee to join a group, and then it was a chance on whether or not an item would be distributed based upon how many people signed up. The paying to access and no promise of a prize, is what makes the board a game of chance and not a game of skill."

 

[Bobbie Faulds]

"Thank you for contacting us regarding the Midnight Madness Board that was returned to you. The board itself is not within a violation of the Terms of Service, or any Policy referenced within it. Unfortunately what did cause the violation is that in order to use it, they had to pay a fee to join a group, and then it was a chance on whether or not an item would be distributed based upon how many people signed up. The paying to access and no promise of a prize, is what makes the board a game of chance and not a game of skill.

We have since reviewed the general operating premise of this scenario, and have decided that -- given the behavior outlined above -- it is not a violation of the Terms of Service or any Policy referenced within."

 

Read it again...It's stating that the reason the board was returned was because Gov8 saw it as a game of chance.....However LL reviewed the scenario, ie group only board with fee required to join the group to play the board, and determined it wasn't a violation.

 

[Phil Deakins]

You ought to have read the reply from LL. Bobbie has quoted it above so you can get up to date

[Elecktra Miami]

Ok thanks for clarifying. So it was a violation at first but now after reviewing it, they no longer consider a group board in a pay to join group a violation.  It just sounded like double-talk to me but now it makes sense.  So I'm glad to hear that it's ok.

I have seen hundreds of shops with group boards in pay to join groups because I often TP around calling boards to help out the MM groups....to help both the slappers win prizes and the merchants, to get people to visit their shops. I think having both public and group boards together in a shop is very effective to get people to your shop and then they might consider joining your group to click the group board too....and may in time become loyal customers.