Midnight Mania/Midnight Madness Boards are now against Skilled Gaming Policy?

[daisybloomer]

 

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

It's not an entry fee. Some groups have fees to join to keep out the spammers. Others give out lots of gifties..Like a free skin every month with WoW and 7Deadly Skins do or getting store discounts or credit if you wear your group tag. It's just another perk of membership.

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Yes group gifts and store discounts and the MM boards from a group fee are perks but let me take it one step further that sets the boards different from the first two perks. Group gifts and store discounts are guaranteed to the joining member. On the other hand MM boards are not guaranteed. Either you will win it that day or you don't. It is a perk (as you call it) that has an element of chance. Factor in the group fee you have to pay to participate in it and you have all the components there for fitting under the terms of the Wagering Policy.

From the SL Wagering Policy:

"It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life® environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games:

1. Rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner,

   OR

2. Rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events,

AND provide a payout in

1. Linden Dollars (L$)

   OR

2. Any real-world currency or thing of value."

 

"1. Rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner," = The chance occurence of the MM reaching the target number by midnight

"2. Any real-world currency or thing of value." = The item prize on the board if event occurs

 

"What does "wagering" mean according to this policy?

The term "wagering" applies to any covered game or activity (i.e. game of chance, sports betting) in which a user contributes Linden dollars (or real-world money or things of value), whether into a pot, at a table game, at a house game, for purchase of a card (such as Bingo), or in any way risks Linden dollars based on whether an event may or may not occur, such as whether a team will win a sporting event, or whether Barack Obama will win the Democratic primary." = The group fee to play the board

 

And there you go, all 3 mechanisms are there to fit the criteria of the Wagering Policy...

 

[0i1]

Would those Trivia Questions game fall under that? It takes intellectual skills to answer the questions and money does change hands when a person does get the correct answer.

[Cerise Sorbet]

LL's enforcement of the gaming policy isn't due to begin until November 1.

This was probably the action of an estate manager/landlord who misunderstood the new rules, or decided to use their own, tighter rules.

[Bobbie Faulds]

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daisybloomer wrote:

 

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

It's not an entry fee. Some groups have fees to join to keep out the spammers. Others give out lots of gifties..Like a free skin every month with WoW and 7Deadly Skins do or getting store discounts or credit if you wear your group tag. It's just another perk of membership.

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Yes group gifts and store discounts and the MM boards from a group fee are perks but let me take it one step further that sets the boards different from the first two perks. Group gifts and store discounts are

guaranteed

to the joining member. On the other hand MM boards are

not guaranteed

. Either you will win it that day or you don't. It is a perk (as you call it) that has an element of chance. Factor in the group fee you have to pay to participate in it and you have all the components there for fitting under the terms of the Wagering Policy.

From the SL Wagering Policy

:

"It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life® environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games:

1. Rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner,

   OR

2. Rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events,

No chance, per se...other than that the prescribed number of players hit the board. Same would apply to ones that don't require a membership fee, you don't reach the number, you don't get the gift so I don't see how it applies. MM boards are not a game per se. I'm not sure what I'd call them but the chance they are talking about is more like the mini-mania where you get the number to hit and 1 random person gets the prize from the ones that hit. MM boards, if you hit it and you get the number, everyone gets the prize.

AND provide a payout in

1. Linden Dollars (L$)

   OR

2. Any real-world currency or thing of value.
   "

 

"

1.

Rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner," 

= The chance occurence of the MM reaching the target number by midnight

Bit of a stretch to make it fit...I mean really. Be realistic

"

2.

Any real-world currency or thing of value."

= The item prize on the board if event occurs

 

"

What does "wagering" mean according to this policy?

The term "wagering" applies to any covered game or activity (i.e. game of chance, sports betting)

in which a user contributes Linden dollars (or real-world money or things of value)

, whether into a pot, at a table game, at a house game, for purchase of a card (such as Bingo), or in any way risks Linden dollars based on whether an event may or may not occur, such as whether a team will win a sporting event, or whether Barack Obama will win the Democratic primary." = The group fee to play the board

 

And there you go, all 3 mechanisms are there to fit the criteria of the Wagering Policy...

 

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[Perrie Juran]

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Cerise Sorbet wrote:

LL's enforcement of the gaming policy

isn't due to begin until November 1

.

This was probably the action of an estate manager/landlord who misunderstood the new rules, or decided to use their own, tighter rules.

---

I'm not sure if that would apply here because that post is about the Gaming Policy and there is also a qualifier in it that "the enforcement of our Policy will apply to all Residents," while we know certain Creators were told to stop "now."

In this case we appear to be dealing with the Wagering Policy.

And the claim in the OP is that Gov (Linden?) did this.

But you do make me wonder now, could the OP have meant an Estate Mgr/Owner when they said simply "Gov?"

We do always love 'hearsay' situations. 

 

 

[Cerise Sorbet]

OP's story is that this was about the skilled gaming policy, not the wagering one. My money's on somewhere between the telphone game and fairy tale.

[irihapeti]

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Cerise Sorbet wrote:

This was probably the action of an estate manager/landlord who misunderstood the new rules, or decided to use their own, tighter rules.

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^^ that most likely ^^

[Dillon Levenque]

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Cerise Sorbet wrote:

OP's story is that this was about the skilled gaming policy, not the wagering one. My money's on somewhere between the telphone game and fairy tale.

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I agree. The OP, who made the starter post and one more, twenty minutes later, said this:

"I'm curious if anyone else has had this 

Someone who had an MM board out in their store, got it returned by a Gov, and told that it was against the skilled gaming policy and that they've been wanred and not to use it.

Since MM boards don't require you to pay... but merely TP and slap a board = no skill required unless TPing to places requires alot of skill (LOL!) and by definition; according to LL... "

So okay, it's common for people to post tales about things that have happened to them personally but use, "my friend", or "someone I know" just to cut down on the BS (does not ever work, but it's done just the same). Still, taken at face value the OP is reporting something he or she heard from someone else, not something he or she experienced.

Given the complete lack of response to even one of the many relevant questions that have been asked since this thread opened, I'd say all that's here is some possible hearsay.

It did serve to bring up some interesting possibilities regarding how the new gaming rules affect MM boards (as in the one where only one winner is chosen from those who touched the board) but I think it started with air.

[daisybloomer]

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Cerise Sorbet wrote:

OP's story is that this was about the skilled gaming policy, not the wagering one. My money's on somewhere between the telphone game and fairy tale.

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It is also possible the OP did not know there were two separate policies in effect. Many have the inclination to point fingers at the Skill Gaming Policy first since it has gotten a lot of attention in recent months unaware there is another Wagering Policy.

[Phil Deakins]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

Sounds not quite right to me. MM boards aren't skilled gaming or gambling. No money changes hands. Same for the lucky boards/chairs.

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There are two different types of "Mania" boards by the same maker which are often seen together. One is the standard "Midnight Mania" board which will give a prize to everyone on a list when a certain threshold of users is reached by midnight. The other is the "Mini Mania" board where a prize will be given randomly to one of a small number of people who click on the board - for example, it can be set to take 5 names and then randomly give the prize to one of those avatars once five names have been entered. If there's any type of entry fee then a Mini Mania board would be straight-up gambling.

We need more specifics about this situation. It's almost certain that this particular board was taken down because someone AR'ed it - I'm not aware of roving governance Lindens going through places on spec.

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The point is that the policy specifically states L$ as a payout, and not goods. So, even if a person has to pay to enter, s/he doesn't receive L$ from either of the types you described and, therefore, neither of them are subject to the policy.

[Phil Deakins]

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Cerise Sorbet wrote:

LL's enforcement of the gaming policy

isn't due to begin until November 1

.

This was probably the action of an estate manager/landlord who misunderstood the new rules, or decided to use their own, tighter rules.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but the wagering policy has been in effect for a long time.

You've made the mistake of not realising that the discussion changed from the Skill Gaming Policy to the Wagering Policy, but it's the Skill Gaming Policy that will be enforced starting on November 1st.

[Cerise Sorbet]

You've made the mistake of beliving that the speculation in this thread about what the wagering policy covers has any bearing on what it actually covers.

[Phil Deakins]

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Cerise Sorbet wrote:

You've made the mistake of beliving that the speculation in this thread about what the wagering policy covers has any bearing on what it actually covers.

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I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but it has nothing to do with what I wrote to you.

Looking back though, I see now that you may have meant the skill gaming policy and not the wagering (which is gaming) policy that I thought you meant.

[NickyMinaj1488303885]

YES, i belive this forum was about me, i really appriciate it being started. i really need my MM board up because it brings the customers in. And im very affraid to because the LINDEN saif i have been warned! after he retuned it. i do not want my account to get banned. i filled a ticket.. right after it happened and have not heard from them. And seeing as i do not have  a paid member ship, i cannot talk directly to them

[Perrie Juran]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Cerise Sorbet wrote:

You've made the mistake of beliving that the speculation in this thread about what the wagering policy covers has any bearing on what it actually covers.

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I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but it has nothing to do with what I wrote to you.

Looking back though, I see now that you may have meant the skill gaming policy and not the wagering (which is gaming) policy that I thought you meant.

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Well I think we have all fallen again into responding to an OP based on hearsay with incomplete information.  This always leads to speculation and guessing as to what really happened and what rules may or may not apply.  One result of this is it leads to disagreements because people develop their own ideas about what must have really happened. 

There have been multiple questions asked in multiple threads about items related to both the Skill Gaming and the Wagering policies asking, "Is this or that OK under the policies?"  And LL's response has simply been to direct people back to the policies, in essence saying, "You figure it out."  And I do understand that in part because LL cannot give legal advice.  Well they could but that would be risky for them to do.

Perhaps it could help things if LL stated more examples of "what it is not," but on the other hand that could cause more problems because people would misinterpret things and come back at LL saying. "But you told us this was OK."

[NickyMinaj1488303885]

Also the reason y my group isnt free to join is because i sell only full permission items, and people come with alts and click the board to recieve the free items. I dont consider this gaming, if the person doesnt want to pay to join the group, no one is forcing them.

[Perrie Juran]

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NickyMinaj wrote:

YES, i belive this forum was about me, i really appriciate it being started. i really need my MM board up because it brings the customers in. And im very affraid to because the LINDEN saif i have been warned! after he retuned it. i do not want my account to get banned. i filled a ticket.. right after it happened and have not heard from them. And seeing as i do not have  a paid member ship, i cannot talk directly to them

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Can you copy us the exact message you got from Linden Lab?

[Bobbie Faulds]

Wouldn't matter if you did have a premium account. I do and just tried to get clarification. All I got was check with your legal council, that LL can't clarify it...If they can't then who can?...rolls her eyes.

[Pandarania]

They quoted the skilled gaming policy. It wasn't about traffic

[Pandarania]

Gov as in Linden.. specifically Governance8 Linden. There's a chat log to go along with the situation, however obviously that can't be posted.

It wasn't an estate manager.

[Pandarania]

For starters before you try and make it to be something it's not.

1) I haven't been around to comment on the posts because of real life.

2) If you were in the CasperTech User Support group, you'd know that the person who had this happen was ηιɔкч ηªõкι ςяυsн (nickyminaj). My name isn't that... so no.. it's not a case of me saying "my friend, or such and such" to cover up that it's me. I'm a compeltely different person lols.

3) Also it's not hearsay. There's a chat log & screenshot of the situation. While it wasn't involving me directly, as a store owner, I do ask out of curiosity because if these boards pose and issue, then everyone needs to be made aware.

4) Casper Warden was made aware by his own staff about the situation; and also commented on the post previously with his own bit of input. 

 

Thanks.

[Perrie Juran]

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Pandarania wrote:

Gov as in Linden.. specifically Governance8 Linden. There's a chat log to go along with the situation, however obviously that can't be posted.

It wasn't an estate manager.

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OK.  Thanks.

It would really help us if we could see but understand.

[Pandarania]

I was aware there was some sort of policy regarding that, however I didn't think that'd have any play in this scenerio. Could be possible though.

[Pandarania]

If posting won't get nickyminaj into trouble, I can get her to post it here. I personally won't post what isn't mine. I just made the post to try and get some help.

[daisybloomer]

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NickyMinaj wrote:

Also the reason y my group isnt free to join is because i sell only full permission items, and people come with alts and click the board to recieve the free items. I dont consider this gaming, if the person doesnt want to pay to join the group, no one is forcing them.

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Thanks for posting and clarifying some of the details of the situation. However, If you are so concerned about people using alts to receive the free items then why do you even put up a board in the first place? You could have alternatively just set those items you would giveaway on the board, as paid group gifts (like 10L or 25L each). Your tone of voice in the first sentence sounds like you want to be the only beneficiary from that perk hoping your group members don't reach the target number often.