Mesh clothes breaking on male avatars

[MissMarijah]

Alright, I need HELP. Either it's me, or all the SL dudes chests suddenly grew over night.

If you look at the pic attached to this post you'll see what I'm talking about. On my viewer all dudes mesh clothes break over the chest. And this isn't clothes being too small or shape too big, cause this is for some reason only something I see.

I have the latest Firestorm, I upgraded my graphic drivers and I tried to mess with my graphics (low or ultra don't make any difference). It has been like this for a few days now and it's really starting to piss me off since it makes it freaking impossible for me to take good shots for my blog.

Sooo, does anyone else have this issue? Anyone who's got a clue on how to fix it?

[Sassy Romano]

Wear the alpha layer that should have been supplied.

[MissMarijah]

As I said, this is only on my viewer and all the alphas are being attached. This is actually something up with MY laptop, graphics or whatever. It's not cause of alpha, shape or anything like that. I've seen this on 9 out of 10 male avatars the last few days. 

[Sassy Romano]

Oh I see what you mean, it's your view of others so beyond your control of what they're wearing.

First thing i'd try is a different viewer.  Try the standard LL viewer as a first action just to cross check.  I can't think off hand what setting would cause alpha layers not to render but that's what it looks like.

[MissMarijah]

This happened when I installed the latest Firestorm update. I just downgraded and it seem to be working like it should now. But it was really odd. It was only on dudes and only around the chest area. I could see the alpha if the shirt was taken off, but ones it was on skin started poking out right away. And yeah, all kinda shirts or sweaters really. Wasn't just this one. 

[Rhys Goode]

Hmmm.  Makes me wonder.

I have a very close fitting bikini, tailor made for my shape.  And my boobs seem just a little bigger with respect to the mesh than they did last week.  I'm not certain its the viewer, at least at first glance, looked the same with the newest LL viewer.  

There may have been some subtle changes in the rigging that worked into the code, along with the dumb collision bones,

*BUT, a few hours later, it appears that what I saw was one of those one off things that happen on the test grid.  No hint of an issue today.

[Emily Aries]

I have this problem with mesh clothing every now and then also on a female avatar. It seems to happen when I cam around then when I go back to my avatar my jacket or boots are messed up. I think there may be a wierd bug in the LOD code perhaps.

I find that if I take the item off and then put it back on again it fixes the problem for a while. Perhaps this will help you?

[Maxwell Petras]

The problem I am having is I see my mesh as perfect, my shirts look ok and my mesh nipples look right but other people see my skin through my shirt and my mesh nipples partially inside my chest. Content makers are getting blamed for this on items that worked perfectly well before this updaate. It has been tested in the latest Firestorm viewer and the LL V3 viewer and it's the same,

[Peebee McMillan]

I sincerely hope this issue will get some attention soon, because in my opinion this is severe.

Again, it's not an issue with rigged or non-rigged mesh clothing. This should not be confused.

For some reason the AV itself looks different to others, than it does for oneself. It effects the chest portion of any male AV and as I just discovered, the forehead portion too. It's not an obvious issue/bug, cause naturally you can't see it yourself. And it's on both the LL viewer and Firestorm, so it's apparently not a viewer issue, but related to mutual viewer code or LL servers, I'd say. The new AV rigging for fitted mesh comes to mind ....

As Maxwell said, content creators will get slammed with support requests and possibly unjustified negative reviews on Marketplace. This could be a disaster, if there's no fix any time soon. 

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

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MissMarijah wrote:

Alright, I need HELP. Either it's me, or all the SL dudes chests suddenly grew over night.

If you look at the pic attached to this post you'll see what I'm talking about. On my viewer all dudes mesh clothes break over the chest. And this isn't clothes being too small or shape too big, cause this is for some reason only something I see.

I have the latest Firestorm, I upgraded my graphic drivers and I tried to mess with my graphics (low or ultra don't make any difference). It has been like this for a few days now and it's really starting to piss me off since it makes it freaking impossible for me to take good shots for my blog.

Sooo, does anyone else have this issue? Anyone who's got a clue on how to fix it?

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 What is your LOD setting?

[Peebee McMillan]

Hi Tarina.

That was my very first question and attempt to fix it, too. But it's not a problem with worn mesh or the LOD settings. It's the male AV itself.

The issue occurs no matter how high or low LODs are set. We've tried it from minimum to maximum on all LOD settings (Objects, Avatar etc).

The problem is slowly occuring all over the blogs and JIRAs. It's a cross-platform, cross-viewer thing. Most likely server side. 

For all who are interested in following this, here's JIRA links to the issue on LL and Firestorm:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5537

http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-13312

[Whirly Fizzle]

After testing this today, it appears its a viewer bug affecting everyone on a fitted mesh capable viewer.

Male avatars on a fitted mesh viewer will see their own chest shape and chest region attachments correctly.

Anyone on a fitted mesh viewer will see all male avatars (apart from themselves) with a "deformed" chest shape and any attachments covering the chest area in the wrong position.

This affects standard prim attachments, sculpts, unrigged and rigged mesh.

It does not matter what viewer the male avatar being observed is on. If the observers are on a fitted mesh viewer, they will see this bug.

Simple Repro:

• Login Avatar A and Avatar B on Second Life 3.7.4 (288138) Mar 15 2014 16:28:23 (Second Life Release) - this is the current default official release.
• Change Avatar A into the default male from Develop -> Avatar -> Character Tests -> Test Male.
• Take off Avatar A's jacket.
• Avatar A rez a ring and resize it to approx <0.010,0.038, 0.038> and take 2 copies of ring into inventory.
• Attach both rings to chest attach point and edit into position so that one ring is around each nipple and flush to the avatar mesh like so:

 

Observed: Avatar B will not see the rings on Avatar A's chest because they are inside the avatar body.

 

[Pi Rain]

I hope this critical issue is addressed IMMEDIATELY. This bug causes you to see your avie correctly, but onlookers see your upper chest stretched horizontally, saggy and puffy! Clearing cache and relogging does NOTHING. Rigged mesh looks badly made. And, if you try adjusting your chest.....well....those with older viewers will see your pecs rather shrivelled. I As a content creator of things for men in sl....I find this very disturbing....and sincerely hope this issue is addressed before everyone starts eating kittens in frustration..*eats a kitten* .:womanmad: 

[SaraCarena]

Apparently fixed in this viewer, Second Life Maintenance Viewer version 3.7.6.288799, although I have`nt tried it.

 

Release notes;

• MAINT-3896 Male Avatar chest rendering broken - chest shows bigger for onlookers, than to oneself - effects attachments and all worn mesh types

[Peebee McMillan]

That is good news SaraCarena! I don't follow the LL release notes as I am an avid Firestorm User.
And there is no 'resolved' status update on the JIRA as far as I can see. 

However, in the Firestorm JIRA report (which initially got this issue to the attention of the FS & LL devs),
it has been indicated that a fix will be implimented in the next Firestorm release as well. :smileyvery-happy:

[Phil Deakins]

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MissMarijah wrote:

This happened when I installed the latest Firestorm update. I just downgraded and it seem to be working like it should now. But it was really odd. It was only on dudes and only around the chest area. I could see the alpha if the shirt was taken off, but ones it was on skin started poking out right away. And yeah, all kinda shirts or sweaters really. Wasn't just this one. 

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Unless you have a compelling reason not to use it, try using the official viewer. There's no reason not to. The viewer you are using is the official one with some changes made to it, but those changes can spoil other things.

[Peebee McMillan]

As stated in both JIRAs, the issue is (was) not restricted to Firestorm, but a general code error in the avatar_lad.xml file, which is used in all viewers. Nyx Linden explained, that it was an error which has been distributed to TPVs within the code update package for fitted mesh.

LL has corrected the bug in it's latest maintenance viewer, Firestorm will have it fixed in it's next bugfix release. Other TPVs will most likely do the same.

There's also no reason not to use any of the third party viewers, if it enhances one's personal SL experience. :matte-motes-grin:

[SaraCarena]

If it`s just the avatar_lad.xml file that`s the cause I think you could just save a copy of the firestorm version somewhere on hard drive, replace it with the version from the viewer I mentioned and see if that works. No need to wait on firestorm to update then, if it don`t work just put your old fs lad file back. I know it`s ok to change avatar_lad.xml file without breaking a viewer coz people do it to cure the pointy ass syndrome. Can`t find the link for that but it`s another forum thread somewhere. Although only you would see the differences with the updated lad file people on the old one wouldn`t.

 

Edit: I`ve just put the maintenance viewer lad file into my firestorm version and ran with no problems. It`s in C:\Program Files (x86)\SecondLifeViewer\character, in case you didn`t know.

[Phil Deakins]

I'm asking for my own benefit as a new player so that this does not happen to me in the future. 

My good friend purchased this avatar 'Elvira-Mesh-Avatar' for 13,000 linden from the Second Life Marketplace. As of today, that's $52.64 USD. This is the link, however the store has already been taken down, less than 12 hours later. https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Elvira-Mesh-Avatar/5861695

After never recieving the item, and upon further digging, its clear that the item was a scam. Infact it was not even an SL item to begin with, it was a 3D model from this site that was being advertised: (NSFW) http://affect3d.com/author/miro/page/5/

After immediately contacting Linden Labs within the hour of purchase, this was their response: 

"However, Linden Lab cannot verify, enforce, certify, examine, uphold, or adjudicate any oath, contract, deal, bargain, or agreement made by the Residents of Second Life.  Nor does Linden Lab enforce or uphold rental agreements between Residents.  While you may have a valid agreement with another person, Linden Lab is not a party to and cannot resolve your dispute.   Please contact the Resident involved and resolve the issue with them."

Now, I understand what they are saying... However this was not some in game bartering... This was an item, on their marketplace. The seller broke the TOS when they put the ad up. That would make it between the seller, and Linden Labs right? So why is my friend getting the shaft when all is done and clear? Not only does it make me cringe, but it makes me rethink ever putting money into the game again.

 

[Peebee McMillan]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I did say "Unless you have a compelling reason"

If a TPV enhances someone's experience then use it. It's my opinion that they don't enhance the experience of most people who use them, and that they only use them because they've been told they are better, which they're not, unless a person just happens to want one or two of the little extras they provide.

I use Singularity with my alt, solely because it can display the older profiles, and also because it's so easy to get the key of an objects. Most people wouldn't find things like that an enhancement to their experience. I use the LL viewer for me (my main). That way I'll always be ahewad of the rest with any major fixes and changes - such as the bug in this discussion 

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I don't agree with every statement in there, but ultimately it boils down to the fact that we are fortunate enough to choose between different viewer technology approaches and their diverse functionality and features. Anyone is free to choose for themselves, according to their individual needs and preferences. Wheither a viewer has been suggested to someone or not, doesn't change the fact that there's a free choice. And what is "better" is very subjektive to the individual.

But ... and I can't help myself, but point this out ... If one observes both JIRA threads,  it was a Firestorm Dev who found the solution to the bug in question here and provided LL with it. Nyx Linden even showed appreciation for the "legwork". So again, the headway is subjective as well. But I can appreciate that LL works so closely and amicably conjoint with the big TPVs. More great minds make better results. :matte-motes-wink:

[SaraCarena]

No wonder you guys end up with broken chests if all you do is fight! Just saying:matte-motes-agape:

[Peebee McMillan]

Nooooo, this isn't a fight, as far as I'm concerned! :smileysurprised:

Actually it's just exchanging thoughts and opinions on the subject. :smileyhappy:

One can't fight about opinions, cause everyone has their own. It's just conversation. If it came across as anything else: Mea Culpa!

I hate hostility in forums, that's why I hardly ever post. :smileywink: