Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

[Phil Deakins]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

IDK, $100+ "investment" in entertainment for how many years? Does not sound too bad to me...

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I couldn't agree more.

[Phil Deakins]

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XNyanNyanX wrote:

I am aware of the ToS, and that they can change certain features

, but the fact they are going to potentially do changes that will in essence render an entire inventory useless nearly is rather a tad over done. I would much prefer backwards compatibility. They do not need to allow the prims and sculpts to be generated in SL, but allow the ones in existence to still work. 

I feel this goes beyond a mere ToS event, this is a major change, basically a whole new system. Not even Second Life so to speak. Calling it SL2 does not change it is entirely something new. It should not be to hard for a compatibility coding. If such was not possible people could not get nintendo games for the PC to work with emulators. I am saying they should not say "possibly" or "potentially" but should say "We work to keep our user base from losing all they have invested years and money into." Not a damn cold ToS link basiccally telling me to screw myself.

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Certain features? You may be aware of the ToS but you are blissfully ignorant of what it says. You need to swallow a reality pill and be very thankful that you've had n years of extremely cheap pleasure from SL for your $100+ - so far. Your $100+ was never an investment. It was the cost of your pleasure, and it was an extremely low cost for the pleasure that you've had from it.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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XNyanNyanX wrote:

I am aware of the ToS, and that they can change certain features, but the fact they are going to potentially do changes that will in essence render an entire inventory useless nearly is rather a tad over done. I would much prefer backwards compatibility. They do not need to allow the prims and sculpts to be generated in SL, but allow the ones in existence to still work. 

I feel this goes beyond a mere ToS event, this is a major change, basically a whole new system. Not even Second Life so to speak. Calling it SL2 does not change it is entirely something new. It should not be to hard for a compatibility coding. If such was not possible people could not get nintendo games for the PC to work with emulators. I am saying they should not say "possibly" or "potentially" but should say "We work to keep our user base from losing all they have invested years and money into." Not a damn cold ToS link basiccally telling me to screw myself.

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That's why it IS going to be a new system and the old system will stay running in parallel until the dinosaurs die until there isn't a sustainable demand for it.

[Michaelatv Destiny]

The problem is, you wont get any such compensation, the wording of the TOS for many years, is "this is a game", L$ has no value in real monetary terms what so ever. I have over 30,000 objects in my inventory, a lot from airports, a lot from the clubs I used to own or manage, castles and stuff from urban combat, weapons and a huge amount of irreplaceable items.

 

Im told by some inworld that SL2 wont even ready, by the time im Seventy, thats 7 years from now??    Errmm, Out of interest did you know even Star wars the old republic, which isnt client based, has now entered into offering players there own Homes called "Stongholds".  These consists of ready made sky homes or on some planets, tatooine type buildings, with about 8-10 room, you get two free initially.  Then you can decorate by putting (Phantom maybe) objects onto puropse built "hooks" on floors or walls to place stuff.  Although its not that interactive, but you can invite other friends over, it is liked a lot by some loathed, by others lol.   

So if MMORGS are starting to already offer living quarters in their games now, what hope of this new SL2 already being outdated by as much as 4 years, if its correct that SL2 wont be viable yet for up to another 6 years, and people would already be packing up, thinking there wasting there £ by buying anything, for some platform that may be gone sooner than later.  i await further developments, but in my opinion LL has left if far to late to start making a a whole new SL, while up and coming new games and virtual worlds, rather like "red light centre" virtual World, already start to get a foot into the virtual world  market.

[Phil Deakins]

That's the whole point of SL2. If LL just sat back with SL, one or more others would bring out better worlds/environments and LL would die along with SL. They have to do it as soon as they can, and it has to be a significant advancement on SL.

You should have written a few more paragraphs to bring SL2 closer. In your second paragraph it was going to be 7 years before SL2 would be ready. Then in your third one, it was going to be 6 years. Just a few more paragraphs and it would be ready a year from now, or even right now 

[Richardus Raymaker]

WHat i have seen with quick reading from the last interview. SL2, its not much different then sl1. maby a few things are better. AM putting my energy in complete different grid and system. thats based on new technology. If you anyway dont have your inventory from sl1 in sl2. why stay with linden lab ? only as visitor to see friends. And the still have not revealed any priceing for sl2. so im afraid that makes it also a bummer.

[Phil Deakins]

We'll have to wait and see. If SL2 turns out to be only small improvements on SL, then it will be a big let-down. If it turns out to look very much like SL, which I expect it to do, but in which lots of things done much better - better building system, etc. and, of course, a very different land model, then I think will be a hit - with SL users at least.

[Michaelatv Destiny]

I find your comment quite funny:)

 

100$ to replace an inventory, you sure you havent left out a "0".

 

To replace my 30,000 items would be more like 4000$ or in my currency 

 

I wouldnt personally, even if I had the disposable income I had in 2007 up to 2010 start all over again, my wardrobe for clubbing, combat sims, expensive skins and weapons for Gorean , urban and Pandora use, would cost many £ just to replace them, let alone the 60 aircraft with repaints that cost me up to 2000L$ a time. SL is so empty in my daytime anyway, I find most sims just ghost towns, with no one in them and vast mainland regions, in places such as the flagship "Blakes Seas" abanded and empty, while next door, some idiot trys to ask 750,000L$ for a 65k sim, that may be gone by 2016, if the time frame for the new SL2 is to be beleived, I certainly stopped spending now, I just rent a tiny house and a berth for my yacht for 220L a week, thats all Im prepared to put into sl any longer.

2,466.89 GBP

[Michaelatv Destiny]

There seems to be much confusion over when this new SL2 is b eing released, thats why Im generalising. The official word its being rolled out in 2016. Unofficially, others have said, it wont happen for 6 years or more, so I dont have a time frame from anyone thats actually accurate. :smileyindifferent:

[Freya Mokusei]

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Michaelatv Destiny wrote:

To replace my 30,000 items would be more like 4000$ or in my currency 2,466.89 GBP

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Hmm, you might want to check the maths on this.

Those 30,000 items were paid for using Linden Dollars. The conversion rate for Linden Dollars to US Dollars (or Great British Pounds) is 0.0 (because Linden Dollars have no cash value), therefore...

Replacing 30,000 items = 0.0 USD = 0.0 GBP.

It might cost you lots of Linden Dollars to replace your inventory, but no matter how many Linden Dollars it would take, it would always be valued at 0.0 in real money.

[Gavin Hird]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

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Michaelatv Destiny wrote:

To replace my 30,000 items would be more like 4000$ or in my currency 2,466.89 GBP

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Hmm, you might want to check the maths on this.

Those 30,000 items were paid for using

Linden Dollars

. The conversion rate for Linden Dollars to US Dollars (or Great British Pounds) is 0.0 (because Linden Dollars

have no cash value

), therefore...

Replacing 30,000 items = 0.0 USD = 0.0 GBP.

It might cost you lots of Linden Dollars to replace your inventory, but no matter how many Linden Dollars it would take, it would always be valued at 0.0 in real money.

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That is just nonsense. The acquisition cost to make the replacement is what is being talked about here. Besides, theortically, the inventory can be sold, and the Linden dollars collected can be exchanged to a real currency. 

The TOS you linked to is just legalese to prevent Linden Lab from any liability claims if the Linden dollar holding should be lost or otherwise zeroed. We all know how this works from our credit card statements. 

[Freya Mokusei]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

Besides, theortically, the inventory can be sold, and the Linden dollars collected can be exchanged to a real currency. 

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This is the only part of your response that interests me - but it too is false. Even theoretically.

Linden Lab offering to acquire your Linden Dollars and provide you with real currency, is not the same as your inventory having real life value. They don't 'buy back' Linden Dollars, it's not an exchange.

The remainder of your response has been discussed at length elsewhere.

[Gavin Hird]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

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Gavin Hird wrote:

Besides, theortically, the inventory can be sold, and the Linden dollars collected can be exchanged to a real currency. 

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This is the only part of your response that interests me - but it too is false. Even theoretically.

Linden Lab offering to acquire your Linden Dollars and provide you with real currency, is not the same as your inventory having real life value. They don't 'buy back' Linden Dollars, it's not an exchange.

The remainder of your response has been discussed at length elsewhere.

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So when I sell items in my store and sell my Linden holding on the LindeX for USD, how is that not Linden buying back Linden Dollars? How is LindeX not an exchange? Your account page has a tab called Linden Exchange where you buy and sell Linden dollars for real currency. 

To say that your inventory has no vaule is just as disingenuous as claiming all your private possesions in your house has no value. ... and they don't unless you sell them. Which is exactly the case with your SL inventory. 

[MB Robonaught]

Has anyone considered that the reason Linden Labs won't be allowing inventory transfers is from incompatible technologies between the current SL and the upcoming SL2 and not some grand conspiracy to destroy inventories?

[Gavin Hird]

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MB Robonaught wrote:

Has anyone considered that the reason Linden Labs won't be allowing inventory transfers is from incompatible technologies between the current SL and the upcoming SL2 and not some grand conspiracy to destroy inventories?

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Yes, and I am perferctly happy with that. What I find close to dishonest is when they call it a new version, when in fact it is an etirely new product where the only thing you can move is your account and LL holding. 

A new version implies backward compatibility (as is customary for all new versions of software) or at a minimum conversion routines for old data/content. 

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

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MB Robonaught wrote:

Has anyone considered that the reason Linden Labs won't be allowing inventory transfers is from incompatible technologies between the current SL and the upcoming SL2 and not some grand conspiracy to destroy inventories?

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Yes, and I am perferctly happy with that. What I find close to dishonest is when they call it a new version, when in fact it is an etirely new product where the only thing you can move is your account and LL holding. 

A new version implies backward compatibility (as is customary for all new versions of software) or at a minimum conversion routines for old data/content. 

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Where'd you get this idea?  From the very beginning, they said they're working on a new virtual world... not a new version of SL.

...Dres

[MB Robonaught]

I do agree that a new version implies backward compatibility. However, in every meeting they have held to explain the concept they empathise that SL2 will be a new product with modern graphics and physics engines instead of ones based on 2001 technologies. The current SL uses backward compatibility to include sculpties and tortured prims to work with mesh objects. Any builder can see when a torus, for example, is linked to a mesh object the land impact skyrockets. Simply put, this is from the conversion of prims to a mesh object due to the over complexity of the prim object as a mesh object. Linden Labs has also stated that LSL will be replaced with a professional programming language(c#) which will make any scripted object incompatible with the new language.

[Phil Deakins]

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Michaelatv Destiny wrote:

There seems to be much confusion over when this new SL2 is b eing released, thats why Im generalising. The official word its being rolled out in 2016. Unofficially, others have said, it wont happen for 6 years or more, so I dont have a time frame from anyone thats actually accurate. :smileyindifferent:

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I saw the "6 years" comment the other day. It was just somebody being cynical. LL said something like beta next years and roll out the year after. I don't remember exactly but that the sort of timescale that's planned by LL.

Incidentally, I replied to your post in the other thread, mainly to say that SL won't close when SL2 comes along, so your 30k inventory items  will be useable for a long time yet.

[Phil Deakins]

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MB Robonaught wrote:

I do agree that a new version implies backward compatibility. However, in every meeting they have held to explain the concept they empathise that SL2 will be a new product with modern graphics and physics engines instead of ones based on 2001 technologies.

The current SL uses backward compatibility to include sculpties

and tortured prims

to work with mesh objects.

Any builder can see when a torus, for example, is linked to a mesh object the land impact skyrockets. Simply put, this is from the conversion of prims to a mesh object due to the over complexity of the prim object as a mesh object. Linden Labs has also stated that LSL will be replaced with a professional programming language(c#) which will make any scripted object incompatible with the new language.

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It sounds like you've no idea what the phrase 'tortured prim' means

[Gavin Hird]

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MB Robonaught wrote:

Any builder can see when a torus, for example, is linked to a mesh object the land impact skyrockets. Simply put, this is from the conversion of prims to a mesh object due to the over complexity of the prim object as a mesh object. 

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No, the land impact is a completely artificial metric that is directly tied to the impact on the physics engine of the mesh. The reason why the old prims did not have this metric is because their shape, boundary, and therefore impact on the physics engine could be precomputed and embedded into the physics engine as part of the "cost" of running the simulator.

A mesh with the exact same properties and polygons of a standard prim will have no more no less impact on the physics engine than the built in prim. 

[MB Robonaught]

that was one example of the overall picture sheesh are you just in this to cause an argument by nit picking?

[MB Robonaught]

that's what I just said

[Gavin Hird]

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MB Robonaught wrote:

that's what I just said

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Yes, of course ;-)

[Phil Deakins]

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MB Robonaught wrote:

that was one example of the overall picture sheesh are you just in this to cause an argument by nit picking?

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Maybe But tortured prims are not what you think they are. I've seen the phrase used erroneously before.

When editing a prim, you can do certain things with it - stretch it, twist it, etc. But you can't do everything to every prim shape. Some of them omit certain actions. Torturing a prim is when you perform an action on a prim when the edit box doesn't doesn't include the action for that prim shape. I've no idea how to do it, but that's what torturing a prim means, and a prim that's had it done to it is a 'tortured prim'.

[Freya Mokusei]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

So when I sell items in my store and sell my Linden holding on the LindeX for USD, how is that not Linden buying back Linden Dollars? How is LindeX not an exchange? Your account page has a tab called Linden Exchange where you buy and sell Linden dollars for real currency. 

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These are all misconceptions that you appear to hold about Second Life services. For the most accurate understanding, you should consult official sources. I won't attempt to explain them to you here.

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Gavin Hird wrote:

To say that your inventory has no vaule is just as disingenuous as claiming all your private possesions in your house has no value. ... and they don't unless you sell them. Which is exactly the case with your SL inventory. 

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These examples are not equivilent, and real life posessions differ drastically from Second Life assets. Comparing the two is not helpful. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, other than that you don't realise this distinction?