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Gavin Hird wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

That being said, there is no reason to prohibit adult content in the new platform. Nor do you have to deal with anything in SL against your will. You choose what you content you can see. No one is shoving anything in your face and saying "LOOK AT THIS PORN!!!"

Actually I disagree with that – you too often still see "masters" dragging round their "slaves" in all kinds of wierd configurations where they never should be shoving their lifestyle in your face.

I agree with you that these things do not help perceptions of SL with "the general public". And they definately make SL Inworld NSFW.

BUT eliminating them will not change the public perception of Virtual Worlds nor will it cause business to see a reason to be here when no such reason has worked for them well in the past.

I have other unrelated reasons for wishing the whole 'slave' angle could get banned. D/sers I don't mind, but if you toss the word / role of slave into that mix - I'd find you less offensive if you were dressed as a Nazi.

But cleaning that out won't cure the ills of Virtual World reputations.

 


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Would you expect a furry to act like a human or should they have animalistic tendencies?

 I've never met a furry that didn't act like a human. Unless talking about first person shooter video games and metal music is not human - as that seems to be the ONLY topics they ever discuss in half the furry venues... for whatever reason...

 

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Monalisa Robbiani wrote:

"Self-censoring is not the solution. You won't change outside opinions by doing that." Oh really? Apple does that, Google does that, Yahoo does that, Facebook does that ... EVERY mass market online service actually does that, otherwise it will get stuck in a redlight niche from the very beginning.

No... internet got mass appeal long before that - when people started getting more reasons to use it.

"Cleaing it up" of all the people moralists do not like didn't and still hasn't changed a thing about it.

Giving it reasons to be useful on the other hand has. In fact that's why the XXX was there to begin with: they found the reasons first (and then developed a lot of the technology).

And of your examples, only Apple doesn't deal in XXX... that I know... (because even Disney owns a porn studio).

 Actually... all that XXX is still there on the 'teh interwebz'. Its just that once people found enough reason to be online, they stopped caring and just avoided clashing with what 'other folks' were up to - excepting for a few "censor all the freaks" types.

 

 

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Monalisa Robbiani wrote:

Disney owns a porn studio? I didn't know that. That shows that they are doing it right. It's not about moralists, it's about branding.

While none of it probably would qualify as "porn," you can find some interesting things under Disney's Miramax, Touchstone Pictures, Hollywood Pictures and Buena Vista labels.

They are certainly not all about children's cartoons.

 

As far as the picture goes, the Default setting for Google is similar to the Default for SL, "G-Rated."

So yes, you do need to go look. 

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I was a content creator for 4 years. The reasons I left and quit are many and not for this thread. But my heart kinda breaks reading all this.

Has anyone thought that this might the beginning of the end of Second Life? I say this because SL has a small user base, compared to other successful games. Yes, it's not a game but to investors, (get that!) it's a game.  And even though everyone in Second Life (I think) believes the sun rises and sets on this game (it did to me a long time), it's just not true. There is nothing preventing them from starting this new platform and ending this one. It's old technology, it's open source, they have all these residents making demands. Maybe they want new technology, new controls, members who have no say, or little, and a way to make more money.

If Second Life closes no one will notice but the users. It won't get any newspaper headlines. It's insignificant to a bigger picture. I understand the passion of SL... I so get that, but reality is a **bleep**. 

 

They don't want to spend the time or money improving something that is a decade old in technology terms or dealing with residents unlike any other user base. Am I wrong? I hope so.

I see comments about them making a lot of money. Not really. Not compared to other software apps and games. We think it's a lot, but it's not... And we have no rights, nothing to cling to but their mercy, and I think begging to keep it going is the only hope, because, frankly I think they're sick of the bitching.

I'm not sure I'll return to Second Life in any meaningful way, but it was a beautiful dream.

I'm going to keep reading the forums for information. I'm wishing all content creators all the power they need to muster these coming months as all this becomes clear. And I don't mean any disrespect with my comments, I just think t his could be the beginning of the end.

 

PS I missed that the thread changed to porno debate. Sorry. I don't think sex is a problem in SL. I never saw it until I looked for it.

 

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

I was a content creator for 4 years. The reasons I left and quit are many and not for this thread. But my heart kinda breaks reading all this.

Has anyone thought that this might the beginning of the end of Second Life? I say this because SL has a small user base, compared to other successful games. Yes, it's not a game but to investors, (get that!) it's a game.  And even though everyone in Second Life (I think) believes the sun rises and sets on this game (it did to me a long time), it's just not true. There is nothing preventing them from starting this new platform and ending this one. It's old technology, it's open source, they have all these residents making demands. Maybe they want new technology, new controls, members who have no say, or little, and a way to make more money.

I can't find any references to outside investors in SL anywhere. If i had to hazard a guess, I would say the users are the only investors.

If Second Life closes no one will notice but the users. It won't get any newspaper headlines. It's insignificant to a bigger picture. I understand the passion of SL... I so get that, but reality is a **bleep**. 

 

They don't want to spend the time or money improving something that is a decade old in technology terms or dealing with residents unlike any other user base. Am I wrong? I hope so.

They make improvements all the time, according to your own words, you left and quit. How would you know about them?

I see comments about them making a lot of money. Not really. Not compared to other software apps and games. We think it's a lot, but it's not... And we have no rights, nothing to cling to but their mercy, and I think begging to keep it going is the only hope, because, frankly I think they're sick of the bitching.

According to THIS page the estimated monthly tier is over 4 million USD. They have less than 200 employees. I would say they do indeed make a lot of money. Name another "game" that makes that every single month.

I'm not sure I'll return to Second Life in any meaningful way, but it was a beautiful dream.

If you have no stake anymore, why do you care?

I'm going to keep reading the forums for information. I'm wishing all content creators all the power they need to muster these coming months as all this becomes clear. And I don't mean any disrespect with my comments, I just think t his could be the beginning of the end.

 "
Coming months" you mean next few years. You missed one tiny detail... This new venture could flop. How well did their other ideas pan out? Any of them? Whats that, they all died off or were shelved? Interesting, no?

PS I missed that the thread changed to porno debate. Sorry. I don't think sex is a problem in SL. I never saw it until I looked for it.

 

They have been working on High Fidelity for over a hear now.. still in the coding stage. What makes anyone think SL2 will just fly out of the doors and kill SL? Why would they shut down a cash cow like SL? $4 mill a month? And all they really would have to do is pay for the servers. Sl will be around for years to come.

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I don't get this panic behavior either.I am absolutely thrilled that LL is starting a new project. We can only win. Either it fails, then we just stay in SL, or it becomes the "next big thing" and we will be among the first using it. That's a much better scenario than this one: LL does nothing and sticks to its 10 years old technology and meanwhile, Googlebook and Yahoomazon start creating the virtual world of our dreams which will eventually lead to the demise of SL. Then all our inventories and names and virtual biographies will die and be be lost forever. So let's be happy and look forward to what will come!

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Monalisa Robbiani wrote:

I don't get this panic behavior either.I am absolutely thrilled that LL is starting a new project. We can only win. Either it fails, then we just stay in SL, or it becomes the "next big thing" and we will be among the first using it. That's a much better scenario than this one: LL does nothing and sticks to its 10 years old technology and meanwhile, Googlebook and Yahoomazon start creating the virtual world of our dreams which will eventually lead to the demise of SL. Then all our inventories and names and virtual biographies will die and be be lost forever. So let's be happy and look forward to what will come!

I agree with that, except that I don't see any "panic behaviour". I see people bemoaning the probability that they won't be able to continue their SL, along with all their stuff, in SL2.

If Google, Yahoo! or any other outfit came up with "the virtual; world of our dreams" most of us would flock to it, and be delighted to do so, even though we'd leave all our stuff behind in SL.

@Drake. I haven't followed this thread so I don't know if the blue parts in your latest post are yours or not, but to whoever wrote the blue stuff, It's intersting that you mentioned that you haven't seen any reference in LL's stuff to investors, because, although people frequently mention investors, I've often wondered where they got the information from that there are some. Investors would be expected to exist, but I wonder if any do.

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Phil Deakins wrote:


Monalisa Robbiani wrote:

I don't get this panic behavior either.I am absolutely thrilled that LL is starting a new project. We can only win. Either it fails, then we just stay in SL, or it becomes the "next big thing" and we will be among the first using it. That's a much better scenario than this one: LL does nothing and sticks to its 10 years old technology and meanwhile, Googlebook and Yahoomazon start creating the virtual world of our dreams which will eventually lead to the demise of SL. Then all our inventories and names and virtual biographies will die and be be lost forever. So let's be happy and look forward to what will come!

I agree with that, except that I don't see any "panic behaviour". I see people bemoaning the probably fact they they won't be able to continue their SL in SL2, along with all their stuff.

If Google, Yahoo! or any other outfit came up with "the virtual; world of our dreams" most of us would flock to it, and be delighted to do so, even though we'd leave all our stuff behind in SL.

@Drake. I haven't followed this thread so I don't know if the blue parts in your latest post are yours or not, but to whoever wrote the blue stuff, It's intersting that you mentioned that you haven't seen any reference in LL's stuff to investors, because, although people frequently mention investors, I've often wondered where they got the information from that there are some. Investors would be expected to exist, but I wonder if any do.

That was my blue text.. yes people metion Sl investors all the time, but no one actually has any proof there are any. you can't buy stock in LL, you would have to directly send them backing money.. seeing as it is over 11 years old, i doubt they still need "investment funds" I would assume they have paid back alll of the original investors long ago.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

.. seeing as it is over 11 years old, i doubt they still need "investment funds" I would assume they have paid back alll of the original investors long ago.

That would be my thinking too. It may be that some investment was needed in the beginning, for the equipment to get it off the ground, but, if it was, I would imagine that that was payed back, together with the agreed interest, long ago.

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Monalisa Robbiani wrote:

"Self-censoring is not the solution. You won't change outside opinions by doing that." Oh really? Apple does that, Google does that, Yahoo does that, Facebook does that ... EVERY mass market online service actually does that, otherwise it will get stuck in a redlight niche from the very beginning.

Actually, neither Google, not Yahoo! nor Apple come in the realms of what Pussycat is saying (dunno about Facebook). She is saying that the outside world automatically thinks of virtual worlds as have plenty of sex in them. (I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with that). Google, Yahoo! and Apple were never ever seen in that light, so they are quite different.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:


Monalisa Robbiani wrote:

I don't get this panic behavior either.I am absolutely thrilled that LL is starting a new project. We can only win. Either it fails, then we just stay in SL, or it becomes the "next big thing" and we will be among the first using it. That's a much better scenario than this one: LL does nothing and sticks to its 10 years old technology and meanwhile, Googlebook and Yahoomazon start creating the virtual world of our dreams which will eventually lead to the demise of SL. Then all our inventories and names and virtual biographies will die and be be lost forever. So let's be happy and look forward to what will come!

I agree with that, except that I don't see any "panic behaviour". I see people bemoaning the probably fact they they won't be able to continue their SL in SL2, along with all their stuff.

If Google, Yahoo! or any other outfit came up with "the virtual; world of our dreams" most of us would flock to it, and be delighted to do so, even though we'd leave all our stuff behind in SL.

@Drake. I haven't followed this thread so I don't know if the blue parts in your latest post are yours or not, but to whoever wrote the blue stuff, It's intersting that you mentioned that you haven't seen any reference in LL's stuff to investors, because, although people frequently mention investors, I've often wondered where they got the information from that there are some. Investors would be expected to exist, but I wonder if any do.

That was my blue text.. yes people metion Sl investors all the time, but no one actually has any proof there are any. you can't buy stock in LL, you would have to directly send them backing money.. seeing as it is over 11 years old, i doubt they still need "investment funds" I would assume they have paid back alll of the original investors long ago.

What you do is look at who is sitting on the board.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/people.asp?privcapId=2532360

Venture capital funds earn money by owning equity in the companies they invest in.  Usually they buy a majority interest in order to protect their investment.  They have the 'final say' in what a company does.

They operate by 'floating' a companies operating capital.  It's like a pre-approved loan that you access as needed.  But they can cut access to that money in the blink of an eye.

I worked for a company where that happened.  The venture company walked in and said, "We are not honoring payroll."  And there wasn't a dang thing we could do about it.  There were eighty of us and we pooled our resources to hire legal help.  And what you do is get in line behind all the other creditors and hope there is some money left to pay you when they finish selling off all the assets. Between the eighty of us we lost about half a million dollars.

You see, the company actually has no cash.  It's all in that float and the float does not belong to them.  As soon as you make a payment to the company the company pays back what it has been using from the float.

On a side note, it appears that Phillip has sold off all his interest in the company. Otherwise he'd still be sitting on the board.  You'd think if he still owned an interest he'd still want to have a vote. 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

That's very interesting, Perrie. Thank you.

This is also why people talk about SL being a cash cow.  The initial investment (money used from the float) was payed back years ago.  For years now they have just been skimming profits off the top.

But with the money needed to develop the NGP, they may need to access the float more to pay all the additional people they are hiring, etc.   It may take a little bit of time to pay that back.  That would be considered a long term investment.  It's going to take a while for them to get their money back.

Because Venture Capitalists take higher risks they also charge more for their money.  A succesful VC can make a lot of money.  Think Warren Buffet.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

 

I see people bemoaning the probability that they won't be able to continue their SL, along with all their stuff, in SL2.

Yeah, there are people like this:

You-cant-please-everyone-2.jpg

... what ever Linden Lab does; it does not please some.

shrug-1.gif  :smileyindifferent:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

The only Buffet I've heard of is Jimmy Buffet
:D
But Warren Buffet hasn't heard of me, so we're even
:)

It's interesting stuff, Perrie. Thank you for posting it.

 

Once a year Warren Buffet auctions off a lunch with him for charity.

You get to pick his brains for a couple of hours.

This year's winner bid 2.2 Million Dollars.

The highest ever bid for a lunch with him was 3.5 Million.

He is one heck of a financial alchemist.

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Coby Foden wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:

 

I see people bemoaning the probability that they won't be able to continue their SL, along with all their stuff, in SL2.

... what ever Linden Lab does; it does not please some.

shrug-1.gif

  :smileyindifferent:

And now on to some reality. There are ppl who use SL for something else than a 'glorified chatroom.' People like me who spent thousands of dollars, and a manifold of that in hours, on building up and decorating entire sims. To dismiss their loss the way you do is rather bizarre (though it matches your 'indifferent' sniley perfectly).

Heck, I spent the last 2 days alone on upgrading my wardrobe/avi. I can't even fathom how much more time went into *creating* all that stuff I bought. All of that will be gone, for ever, like teardrops in the rain. Anyone even remotely invested in SL (beyond the most superficial of experiences) will feel that loss.

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kiramanell wrote:

 

And now on to some reality. There are ppl who use SL for something else than a 'glorified chatroom.' People like me who spent thousands of dollars, and a manifold of that in hours, on building up and decorating entire sims. To dismiss their loss the way you do is rather bizarre (though it matches your 'indifferent' sniley perfectly).

Heck, I spent the last 2 days alone on upgrading my wardrobe/avi. I can't even fathom how much more time went into *creating* all that stuff I bought. All of that will be gone, for ever, like teardrops in the rain. Anyone even remotely invested in SL (beyond the most superficial of experiences) will feel that loss.

You have agreed to the TOS. Did you read it thoroughly? If you did you would know that SL is not a safe vault where anything ever created or bought would stay for ever. Everything can dissappear for any reason or no reason at all. We have agreed and accepted that risk; everything in SL is and has always been on temporary basis.

That's the reality. This is not dismissing anybody's loss - it's just the fact of things.

 

 

http://lindenlab.com/tos

9.2 Linden Lab provides the Service on an "as is" basis, without express or implied warranties, and all Content, Linden Dollars and virtual goods have no guarantee or warranty of any compensable value.

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Coby Foden wrote:


kiramanell wrote:

 

And now on to some reality. There are ppl who use SL for something else than a 'glorified chatroom.' People like me who spent thousands of dollars, and a manifold of that in hours, on building up and decorating entire sims. To dismiss their loss the way you do is rather bizarre (though it matches your 'indifferent' sniley perfectly).

Heck, I spent the last 2 days alone on upgrading my wardrobe/avi. I can't even fathom how much more time went into *creating* all that stuff I bought. All of that will be gone, for ever, like teardrops in the rain. Anyone even remotely invested in SL (beyond the most superficial of experiences) will feel that loss.

You have agreed to the TOS. Did you read it thoroughly? If you did you would know that SL is not a safe vault where anything ever created or bought would stay for ever. Everything can dissappear for any reason or no reason at all. We have agreed and accepted that risk; everything in SL is and has always been on temporary basis.

That's the reality. This is not dismissing anybody's loss - it's just the fact of things.

 

 

9.2 Linden Lab provides the Service on an "as is" basis, without express or implied warranties, and all Content, Linden Dollars and virtual goods have no guarantee or warranty of any compensable value.

It's a thing called "Consumer Confidence."

Right now some people have a very low level of confidence with LL.

Any time something happens that rattles the status quo that can happen.

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Coby Foden wrote:


kiramanell wrote:

 

And now on to some reality. There are ppl who use SL for something else than a 'glorified chatroom.' People like me who spent thousands of dollars, and a manifold of that in hours, on building up and decorating entire sims. To dismiss their loss the way you do is rather bizarre (though it matches your 'indifferent' sniley perfectly).

Heck, I spent the last 2 days alone on upgrading my wardrobe/avi. I can't even fathom how much more time went into *creating* all that stuff I bought. All of that will be gone, for ever, like teardrops in the rain. Anyone even remotely invested in SL (beyond the most superficial of experiences) will feel that loss.

You have agreed to the TOS. Did you read it thoroughly? If you did you would know that SL is not a safe vault where anything ever created or bought would stay for ever. Everything can dissappear for any reason or no reason at all. We have agreed and accepted that risk; everything in SL is and has always been on temporary basis.

That's the reality. This is not dismissing anybody's loss - it's just the fact of things.

 

 

9.2 Linden Lab provides the Service on an "as is" basis, without express or implied warranties, and all Content, Linden Dollars and virtual goods have no guarantee or warranty of any compensable value.

LL having the right to take it away from us does not detract, one iota, from the resulant loss felt. In fact, the two aren't even related.

 

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kiramanell wrote:


Coby Foden wrote:


kiramanell wrote:

 

And now on to some reality. There are ppl who use SL for something else than a 'glorified chatroom.' People like me who spent thousands of dollars, and a manifold of that in hours, on building up and decorating entire sims. To dismiss their loss the way you do is rather bizarre (though it matches your 'indifferent' sniley perfectly).

Heck, I spent the last 2 days alone on upgrading my wardrobe/avi. I can't even fathom how much more time went into *creating* all that stuff I bought. All of that will be gone, for ever, like teardrops in the rain. Anyone even remotely invested in SL (beyond the most superficial of experiences) will feel that loss.

You have agreed to the TOS. Did you read it thoroughly? If you did you would know that SL is not a safe vault where anything ever created or bought would stay for ever. Everything can dissappear for any reason or no reason at all. We have agreed and accepted that risk; everything in SL is and has always been on temporary basis.

That's the reality. This is not dismissing anybody's loss - it's just the fact of things.

 

 

9.2 Linden Lab provides the Service on an "as is" basis, without express or implied warranties, and all Content, Linden Dollars and virtual goods have no guarantee or warranty of any compensable value.

LL having the right to take it away from us does not detract, one iota, from the resulant loss felt. In fact, the two aren't even related.

 

Where the disconnect lies is people acting surprised by the fact their purchased pixels are not permanent.

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This is my wish list for Second Life 2:

I would like custom bones that will allow animation for various avatar shapes and for the default avatar a set of bones that will allow for animation of the fingers and toes as well as facial animations. This will really bring the avatar to life.

Also, I would like the ability to animate non avatar mesh creatures with a set of bones.

For scripting I would like the use of a matrix rather than a list. Fact is in my opinion the scripting needs to be redeveloped from scratch, but still needs to be easy to understand and use. I find the way the current scripting is it is very limited.

 I'm actually looking forward to SL2. I know it will be a huge improvement even if I have to redevelope everything. I do however think it will take 3 to 5 years to migrate users. This really worries me because I'll probably need to rent land in to worlds and hope that sales will cover the cost of my transition to SL2. It might be a bumpy ride at first but I think they are heading in the right direction. Crosses my fingers and hopes for the best.

I'm also sort of worried that I'll need to use more outside programs to develope items for SL2 and that could be a huge learning curve.

One more thing. Increase the prim limit for objects. 256 sounds like a lot but sometimes it just doesn't do it. Maybe an increase in sim prim limits would be good too for more visually pleasing environments.

 

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