Land Griefing?

[GothGirl Demonia]

Yes here is another one.

So two residents decide to allow a simulator or person to be a neighboring partner.

Then after giving mutual consent both have a dispute after a month or a few months and decide they do not want the sims to be next ot eachother anymore because they both decide to go seperate themes, or perhaps one person decides to raise their land 100 meters high, make the textures black or something else who knows.

I call this griefing.

But after both parties filed support tickets Linden Lab says they can't help out and that griefing is covered by the governance team?

1. Technically this is a persons land we are talking about if a person wants to raise their sim 100 meters high they are allowed to even if its being annoying to the other near by neighboring sims or whatever. ( This is not an official banable offense by Linden Lab.)

So the question is why can't Linden Lab just randomly relocate a region in a situation like this instead of asking for $150 its beyond me its not like it is that hard to go Admin > God Tools > type in coords and move region. Unless there is something to it I am missing?

Why can't Linden Lab give residents the right to revoke neighboring regions, support tickets were filed but they give the incorrect answer twice and gave me a link to an article on griefing which doesnt cover passive griefing like this.

Is there a certain thing the parties should do just to get them seperated besides pay $150 just to break the sims up both parties are not doing great with their small sim rentals right now one is doing very bad, the other one has a few sims empty and  quite a few parcels empty too.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/How-to-deal-with-abuse-and-harassment/ta-p/1339983

Heres the article they gave about griefing. I do not see it covered here.

The second response was talking about governance team takes care of any griefing?

I don't know maybe its a new Linden or they are confused about what the term passive griefing is. Passive griefing is basically when you do something thats annoying in any game or service which actually doesnt break the Terms OF Service or result in any punishment to the users account doing it.

 

 

[Phil Deakins]

$150 is a bit steep but it shouldn't be free, or maybe one move should be free but no more. Otherwise sim owners would have LL moving sims far too much.

[GothGirl Demonia]

Yes thing is they paid $150 to have it moved to the sims, now the residents had disputes they are behind the Tier fee because no one is paying for land, and they really need to get it moved otherwise be out Tier + $150 move fee becuase of the dispute.

I can understand somewhat why it costs to have money but LL should move sims free when there is a situation like this and residentual dispute. After all both parties from what I hear filed tickets asking becuase they really both at this moment have the extra money to be thorwing out at the moment one person owns like 20 sims I think and the other has a single region there where they had an agreement but management turned out to debate eachother and go in seperate directions to be specific one person raging cursing out the other more than the other one and as an owner they owner doesnt feel like having the drama or passive grief over it they want to do the right thing and move but are stuck there because of the $150 FEE and LL that can't move it.

http://www.metaverse-business.com/regionweek.php Perhaps this is why sims are going down the tolit so much after all if a person actually owns a sim why residents can't move their own region anyways is a bit beyond me. GF sims pay $195 a month and non GF sims pay $300 a month why there is no free move in situations like this.  Is " LL " still profiting im sure they are likely but still the sim loss. Look at how many great sims there once were in Second Life that are now "GONE" 

Perhaps this is also why hardly no one that I  even have on my friends list has a premium account. After all the L$ stripend is really crap, and when we really need support its a high fee? I thought about going premium account myself but whats the point when we actually need support or something done we can't get it.

These are some of the changes LL needs to make to policy or something, I mean its been a few months now I know at least one of the residents tried hard to settle disagreements but it just didn't work and now is time something gets done to settle the peace.

[Dilbert Dilweg]

I think for private regions engaging in sim neighboring should draw up legal and binding contacts of use and regulations of use. Both parties pay 150 deposit to escrow account which is legally handled.. I wouldn't call it greifing. I call it bad business

Whomever fails the contract pays the 150 move of which the deposit is stored in an escrow account

We shouldn't rely on the lab to handle your business agreements with other residents

[Amethyst Jetaime]

^^This

Both parties agreed to this and now decide they don't want to be neighbors - for whatever reason. It happens all the time, including one sim owner doing things like this to annoy the other into paying for the move.   This is not griefing and LL will not move it without someone paying the fee. 

They should have had a RL contract that covered all eventualities, then they could get it enforced if they had to.  It was an extremely bad decision to do this without one.

People make bad decisions all the time and LL is not in the business of being mom, nor should they be.  LL should not have to eat the costs, regardless of how easy you think it is for them to move the sim because they were not a party to the agreement.

The residents should act like adults and look at it as an expensive lesson because that is what it is and perhaps split the cost now.

[Perrie Juran]

Most of us are no longer in need of a Nanny to spoon feed us pablum and change our diapers for us.

[161488303349]

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GothGirl Demonia wrote:

Yes thing is they paid $150 to have it moved to the sims, now the residents had disputes they are behind the Tier fee because no one is paying for land, and they really need to get it moved otherwise be out Tier + $150 move fee becuase of the dispute.

I can understand somewhat why it costs to have money but LL should move sims free when there is a situation like this and residentual dispute. After all both parties from what I hear filed tickets asking becuase they really both at this moment have the extra money to be thorwing out at the moment one person owns like 20 sims I think and the other has a single region there where they had an agreement but management turned out to debate eachother and go in seperate directions to be specific one person raging cursing out the other more than the other one and as an owner they owner doesnt feel like having the drama or passive grief over it they want to do the right thing and move but are stuck there because of the $150 FEE and LL that can't move it.

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if linden waive the $150 transfer fee bc residents claim griefing then greifing will become more prevalent just to avoid the fee when want a transfer. fake greifing will become the new order. anshe for example (i not mean to pick on her just use as example bc she got 1000s of sims) will grief her own family members to not pay transfer fees. not bc she dont like them. just for the financials

is how that goes

+

also is not lindens fault that 2 parties who were bff then had a breakup later on. is the breakdown that cause the drama/grief. the drama/grief didnt cause itself

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

In competing MMOs a service like this would be $10-$25. Based on the costs of doing this to your character in WoW or some other MMO.

If its as trivial as the OPer describes, then it should be about $5-10, like a minor makeover or moving a guild to another server.

But this is SL, where it's all jacked up...

 

[161488303349]

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GothGirl Demonia wrote:

one person owns like 20 sims I think.

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if a person owns 20 island sims then they paying $5,900 a month in tiers

they either some kinda really rich person or they a mini baron running some kinda hopeful rentals business

is nutso for any person in this situation with this kinda monthly overhead to be bawwing over $150 to the point where the claim is that this amount jeopardise their whole mini estate existence

if is true then they must be the most amateur mini baron ever in history of SL. and probably be a good idea if they did give it up

+

or is a front. like they went way in over their head. cant make the sims pay. cant meet the tiers. and now trying to blame it on someone something linden whoever whatever for when they bail. which sounds like is going to happen next due tier date

 

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

In competing MMOs a service like this would be $10-$25. Based on the costs of doing this to your character in WoW or some other MMO.

If its as trivial as the OPer describes, then it should be about $5-10, like a minor makeover or moving a guild to another server.

But this is SL, where it's all jacked up...

 

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It is easy for LL to move a sim, but they still have to pay someone to do it.  If they made it cheap then sims would be moving around the grid all the time and it would probably take one or more full time people to handle it to say nothing of the chaos it may cause if hundreds of sims were moving around.  I can understand why they want to discourage it. 

The fee should not be waived due to bad decisions on the sim owners part.  I suspect that the one sim owner is annoying the other because they are the ones with second thoughts and they are doing it to get the other to pay the fee.

[ImaTest1488314069]

I think both parties need to put their big boy/girl panties on and move on. Stop acting so childish.

Do you think this sort of thing never happens? People decide for one reason or another that they no longer wish to parter with their neighboring sim owner, if they have one. Most people don't whine and cry about paying some stupid fee to do so. If they want the sim moved, they pay the fee, end of story. If they don't care if the sims continue to share a border and just simply exist next to one another, they don't pay the fee, end of story. Either way, no tantrums needed.

Only drama llamas turn it into something it doesn't have to be. Though some people really love being drama llamas, it's rarely ever productive.

So, like I said, put your big boy/girl panties on and stop acting like a child. The lab isn't here to babysit you or tend to every wound you get when you decide to get all butthurt over something stupid. This is not griefing, at all. Neighboring sims don't have to coincide at all, they don't even have to be neighborly if they don't want to. They don't have to match, they don't have to be pleasant. All they have to do, is follow the TOS the lab gives them.

For your viewing pleasure...because it's more interesting

 

[Phil Deakins]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

It is easy for LL to move a sim, but they still have to pay someone to do it.  If they made it cheap then sims would be moving around the grid all the time and it would probably take one or more full time people to handle it to say nothing of the chaos it may cause if hundreds of sims were moving around.  I can understand why they want to discourage it. 

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I doubt that sims would be moving all the time if the cost was cheap. Imo, $150 is huge. Someone mentioned $10-$25 in another system, and I think $25 is very reasonbable for both sides - LL and the customer. I don't understand why LL has it at $150. It can't be a money-making idea because it's high enough to prevent people from having the sims moved. Perhaps LL doesn't want sims to be moved for some reason, so it's $150 to put people off.

[161488303349]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

It is easy for LL to move a sim, but they still have to pay someone to do it.  If they made it cheap then sims would be moving around the grid all the time and it would probably take one or more full time people to handle it to say nothing of the chaos it may cause if hundreds of sims were moving around.  I can understand why they want to discourage it. 

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I doubt that sims would be moving all the time if the cost was cheap. Imo, $150 is huge. Someone mentioned $10-$25 in another system, and I think $25 is very reasonbable for both sides - LL and the customer. I don't understand why LL has it at $150. It can't be a money-making idea because it's high enough to prevent people from having the sims moved. Perhaps LL doesn't want sims to be moved for some reason, so it's $150 to put people off.

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i read about this somewhere once. cant remember where exactly now. maybe on Nalates or Inara blogs most probably

but what i understand/remember is that a engineer/admin person has to do it manually

that linden never made a program where a support person can do on their terminal. seems that linden never made such a program bc the number of transfers that are actual requested dont warrant the expense of doing it

so a job order is raised for the engineer/admin dept to do as part of their daily maintenance schedule

something like that as i remember

 

[Syo Emerald]

The 10-25$ was also referred to other online games, I'm pretty sure WoW was taken as example for similar services. I think the difference here is, that Blizzard Entertainment sees it as another money making option. I come to that clue, because they even advertise this service, while a normal resident never hears about moving a region for 150$.

As with many things LL probably failed to see the great option of offering additional services like this as a regular thing. Its the same with changing names, which would have been a good source of income, if they had left some room for this.

[Phil Deakins]

So they charge such a high price to put people off because they don't want to do it.

I would think that $25, or even $35, is quite reasonable for LL to have an engineer do it. It's not a big task and it would sometimes be a benefit to paying customers - and only sometimes - it wouldn't be commonplace.

[Dilbert Dilweg]

Yea I feel if the price was even 50 there would be a happy ground . Lowering that cost could spark more creative configurations between residents a spur more communities from it because it is easier to do / less expesnive. I doubt it would cause LL much man hours and even if it did. they are getting payed for it. And if the increase of sims being moved happens, that only means increase of revenu with positive cash flow IMO

[161488303349]

$150 is a funny amount

is the kinda rate same when you ring up a software dev company and want to get something custom made. they say our chargeout rate is $150 per hour

maybe it started out as simple as that. and linden never thought about it ever again after that

[Phil Deakins]

It's just another case of LL not giving a monkey's (not caring at all) for their own paying customers.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

In competing MMOs a service like this would be $10-$25. Based on the costs of doing this to your character in WoW or some other MMO.

If its as trivial as the OPer describes, then it should be about $5-10, like a minor makeover or moving a guild to another server.

But this is SL, where it's all jacked up...

 

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It is easy for LL to move a sim, but they still have to pay someone to do it.  If they made it cheap then sims would be moving around the grid all the time and it would probably take one or more full time people to handle it to say nothing of the chaos it may cause if hundreds of sims were moving around.  I can understand why they want to discourage it. 

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I noted competing MMOs in my post for this reason. They could make the same argument while charging you $150 to change your human to an orc... but they don't.

Instead they charge $25 - low enough that people who want it do it, and high enough that they think about it first.

The actually process should take about 30 seconds of an employee's time.

LL's fees all around are outdated. Lower fees would induce more business. They could make profit off of $25, and estates are not connected anyway most of the time - so if people asked to do this hundreds of times, that's just more money for LLs.

 

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Syo Emerald wrote:

As with many things LL probably failed to see the great option of offering additional services like this as a regular thing. Its the same with changing names, which would have been a good source of income, if they had left some room for this.

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EXACTLY.

LLs couldbe making money hand over fist out of this.

Making a program to automate it might cost them a week of already employed engineering time, maybe only a day...

And then its just pure $$$ coming in.

They don't even need to care about us to do this... its a big money maker for all of their competitors, not just Blizzard.

The real problem is that they don't understand what business they are in. If they treated more of this place like an MMO (even without making it game like - but just in terms of community promotion, and low-cost 'microtransaction' ways to make money off of us), they'd be growing right now.

 

 

[Melita Magic]

Lower prices - sell more! Something WalMart knows.

I wish Second Life breedables would learn that.

Land transfers do cost a lot but I don't know why they do so I can't really judge that. I wish tier would drop.

I'm just amazed Second Life has never partnered with a corporation to cover expenses. Not that I want it to but I have long since expected to see a Pepsi ad when I log in.