Items in G rated stores

[Marybeth Jarvinen]

I frequent only G rated areas (just my personal preference, I am adult). When I use search to find stores, I set the rating to G, particularly if my young son is with me. (he often sits beside me when I use the computer) Recently, however, with my son sitting next to me, I was “visiting” a clothing store and part of the store was selling women’s underwear. There were items on display such as bras and panties.

Is this appropriate for a G rated store that may be visited by kids? I know that there was no sexual items, but it seems that items like underwear should be available only to those who have selected M, so I can protect what my kids see by using G rating when they are with me, and to protect teenagers who have their own accounts.

Mary

[Melita Magic]

Anything can happen on SL at any time. Even on G rated land, someone's avatar could grief the sim by running around naked. Realistic nudity. They could particle spam the screen with other naked pix. It happens even in G rated hubs.

In other words, if you are concerned what they might see due to their age, perhaps they should not be looking over your shoulder while you are in SL. Save that type of computer time for a regular computer game you have played, maybe. Then you will know its content beforehand. Since it's a regular game, that content won't be able to change or surprise you either.

I had a visitor to my park tell me she let her five year old daughter play her (the mom's) avatar. The mom thought it was just like virtual paper dolls. The little girl liked to dress the avatar in ballgowns and the mom thought the G rated park sim was a safe place to be. Except, it wasn't. Things happened there when I was not tehre to stop it such as a naked guy chasing child avs, or people bumping others for fun. In fact someone reported the av this particular family had, for bumping people. That's when the mom told me that her daughter hadn't mean to bump other people, but was only 5 and found controlling the avatar difficult.

I remember trying to gently explain to the woman the dangers of letting a five year old girl wander alone in Second Life, even in a G rated family park sim. I told her about the TOS rule of not letting anyone else run your avatar. I told her LL considers that bannable. I told her anything can happen in SL anywhere. None of it made any difference. That's when I told her that for her protection, and for mine and my land's, and due to guest complaints about the bumping, I had to ban her from the park. She said she understood. No indication she did, though, since she never said she'd tell her kids not to use SL (she let slip her son sometimes visited too.)  I honestly don't remember now if I ARed the underage usage but I did have to ban the known avs for that family.

To answer your actual question Lol, underwear is G rated. You can see underwear in a department store or catalog and no one's ever considered that to be something that should have a brown bag label or be behind a door saying over 18 past this point. BUT the real answer to your question is expect the unexpected in SL, which is why real kids are not suppposed to be there.

[Syo Emerald]

Why not? Wearing underwear is not like being naked.That aren't even real humans.

Ask yourself: In RL, do you avoid to visit big clothing stores with your son? (I mean those that offer any kind of general clothing, including underwear for men and women. Which also have  display dummies to show their newest offers).

Do you avoid going to the beach or the public swimming pool, because he will see people dressed in swimmsuits and bikinis? From what harm do you think teenagers and children will be protected in this case?

Edit: And I have to agree with Melita, an online world is not a safe place for a child. Especially if you are already worrying about clothing stores. Oh, and underwearstores are allowed on G rated land, not part in the TOS against that.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Marybeth Jarvinen wrote:

I

Is this appropriate for a G rated store that may be visited by kids? I know that there was no sexual items, but it seems that items like underwear should be available only to those who have selected M, so I can protect what my kids see by using G rating when they are with me, and to

protect teenagers

who have their own accounts.

 

---

Underwear is dangerous for teenagers? That makes sense - that would explain why parents keep finding their teenagers' underwear balled up on the floor of the car on Sunday mornings.

[Marybeth Cooperstone]

Mary,

In RL, clothing stores and department stores have lingerie departments where they display bras, panties, and nightgowns (some "seductive") on racks and mannequins, open to all to see. It is quite common to see women with their kids visiting those departments. When my son was young, going from my car through a mall anchor department store to the kids clothing department I would pass through the intimates department. Sometimes I would stop and look at a bra or nightgown. I certainly did not think that I was exposing him to anything he should not see.

This isn't new. It was that way years ago when my mother would take my brother and I shopping with her. And my son (like my brother years ago) has been with his mom to the grocery store many times, including the feminine products aisle. ("mom, what is that?" "This aisle is for girls and women").

So I see nothing wrong with lingerie being sold in SL in G areas.

And, as Melita pointed out, "Anything can happen on SL at any time. Even on G rated land,..." In RL, a man was recently arrested for nudity and lewd acts in a shopping mall. Of course, that is not as common in RL because of security and the threat of arrest and jail, but it does happen. SL cannot be as secure.

Marybeth

[sirhc DeSantis]

You are absolutely right - delicate kids under 21 must be protected from the horrors of underwear until they have been given the correct tools and training to deal with it....bless 'em

[Coby Foden]

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Marybeth Jarvinen wrote:

Recently, however, with my son sitting next to me, I was “visiting” a clothing store and part of the store was selling women’s underwear. There were items on display such as bras and panties.

Is this appropriate for a G rated store that may be visited by kids?

---

Surely kids seeing undewear is not going to harm them in any way.  They can see those all over in RL shops.  Underwear is natural, we all have them (well, some do not...).

What concerns me is that you let your under aged son watch over your shoulder what you're doing in SL.  Kids under 13 are not allowed in SL at all.  Why should you let your son to see what's going on there?

As others have stated, in SL anything can happen, even in G rated land.  Somebody might suddenly appear without any clothes at all on the scene doing some "animations", what you surely wouldn't want your son to see.

Protect yourself and your son from embarrasment - play alone.

Ah, a kids away, time to log in...

 

[Jonathan Sivocci]

Hello Marybeth, 

When  i asked LL a few years ago about what would be allowed on G adn what would not. they simply told me "on G you can't do anything you do not want your mother to know". 

So that would mean no nudity ofcourse, no "sexual content" underwear is not sexual content even if it's a lady with long leggs and a mini skirt

 

I mean personal preference ofcourse, the only thing you can do is if you think it's not appropriate to contact the owner or report it to LL. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

Sl is meant for adults, and recently includes older teens.

Sorry, but you can find underwear on public display at your local department store. And very often with display ads featuring real life models wearing it. Its perfectly G rated.

The Christian Taliban/GOP War on Women has not taken over -that much- of America yet... nor anywhere else thank goodness.

Consider not playing SL when your child is around and looking over your shoulder...

 

[Griffin Ceawlin]

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sirhc DeSantis wrote:

You are absolutely right - delicate kids under 21 must be protected from the horrors of underwear until they have been given the correct tools and training to deal with it....bless 'em

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[Griffin Ceawlin]

Do you shield your child's eyes as you walk past the underwear displays at WalMart? How about the feminine hygiene products at the grocery store?

[RobertThorp]

Yep. When I was young my mom often took me shopping with her, and we walked through the lingerie section. When I was a young teenager it was pretty embarrassing when my mother stopped to buy a bra with me waiting. Not to mention the experience, when she had a broken arm, of having to go into the feminine hygiene aisle at the supermarket and picking something from the shelf and putting it into the cart, then going through the checkout where a girl in my class bagged.

But there is nothing adult or sexual in any of that. It is a part of life. Very much G rated.

Bob

[Coby Foden]

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RobertThorp wrote:

... of having to go into the feminine hygiene aisle at the supermarket and picking something from the shelf and putting it into the cart, then going through the checkout where a girl in my class bagged.

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Hehehe, I can imagine your feelings. 

 

:smileywink:

 

[Perrie Juran]

 

Lots of children play with these.

More examples here  and  here.

[Marybeth Cooperstone]

Coby wrote:

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RobertThorp wrote:

... of having to go into the feminine hygiene aisle at the supermarket and picking something from the shelf and putting it into the cart, then going through the checkout where a girl in my class bagged.

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Hehehe, I can imagine your feelings.  

I work with Bob and bet he still would be embarrassed. I will have him do some shopping for me!

[Shelby Silverspar]

and heaven forbid a child goes to a fine art museum and sees a statue of a naked person. they could possibly be damaged for life.

[RobertThorp]

Marybeth: "I work with Bob and bet he still would be embarrassed. I will have him do some shopping for me! **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" alt=":smileyhappy:" title="Smiley Happy" />"

NO WAY!!!

[Kenbro Utu]

This has got to be a troll attempt...

[Pussycat Catnap]

It would seem like a trolling, except that there is a history of "what are all these perverts doing around here, somebody think of the children" types popping up in virtual worlds. Both MMOs, and here.

Look in archives of the debates back when they made the adult content policy. Some in those debates wanted to take that as the time to make SL more PG than a Disney film. They lost in part... That doesn't mean they're gone.

I've argued on my blog that SL will always be seen as a video game no matter how it defines itself or what content it has. What we see here is a reflection of that.

This thing has cartoons, on a screen, in a 3D world. Ergo; it must be a video game. Video games are for kids. So it has to be made safe.

- I don't like that logic. But its common.

At least this poster is only talking about G land, and not about making ALL of SL into G.

 

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Marybeth Jarvinen wrote:

 

Is this appropriate for a G rated store that may be visited by kids?

Mary

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G Rated stores are visited by TEENS 16 or older who know all about underwear, not by kids unless a parent allows a child to watch while they play SL.  Even so, kids see adult underwear in stores and on TV all the time, so I think you are being silly.

I agree with the other posters.  Children as young as yours are not allowed in SL at all for good reason.  Why would you allow a young child to sit and watch you play?  That is what is inappropriate, not underwear in G sims.

If you can't be in SL without your son watching, it is better that you aren't in SL at all unless you can do it without him. I also know kids well enough to know that it is doubtful a young child is going to sit quietly while you play.  They are going to want to interact with what they are seeing either through you or by taking temporary control of the mouse or even keyboard, a violation of the TOS even if you supervise.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

Do you shield your child's eyes as you walk past the

underwear displays at WalMart

?

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You mean some of the customers i have seen in there?

[Griffin Ceawlin]

LOL! Is it that bad? (I try not to go and when I'm forced to I try not to look.)

[Marybeth Jarvinen]

Thanks for all the discussion and comments.

After thinking about it, I realize that real clothing and department stores carry lingerie, and have underwear and sleepwear on mannequins for display. And yes, my kids have been with me to stores. So, now that I have thought more, it does seem reasonable for such stores to be G rated.

A few other comments:

1. I am not a troll.

2. My son is 12, will be 13 in a few months. He has never operated my avatar, but was sitting beside me doing homework (I was helping from time to time).

3. I do not think that all, or even most, of SL should be G rated. There is a place for G, M, and A.

4. I didn’t realize that G rated areas were so dangerous (even though I know that bad things can happen in RL). So I will not let my son see the computer screen when I am on SL.

Now a question:

I understand that at 13 my son can get onto certain kid areas of SL through a "sponsoring organization". Is this safe for kids? How do I find such an organization? All this is assuming that he is interested in trying it out.

Mary

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Marybeth Jarvinen wrote:

Now a question:

I understand that at 13 my son can get onto certain kid areas of SL through a "sponsoring organization". Is this safe for kids? How do I find such an organization? All this is assuming that he is interested in trying it out.

Mary

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I suspect these progams are no longer active.

If you do see what the TOS defines as M or A content on G land, you -SHOULD- AR it.

But do note that short terms 'accidents' can happen. If someone crashes they could get sent to the wrong place. I think these days people get sent to the highest rating area they have enabled when they crash - but not certain on this.

Other times, SL can glitch on a teleport. One of my alts seems to have a habit of TPing in nude half the time... I have yet to figure out why, but being aware of it I've kept her out of G land of late...

But if someone's lingering around for a while in a rating improper way - AR that.

And if a location is featuring nudity or XXX on G land, or is on an adjacent M plot and showing such in a way facing into the G land - AR those...

 

Otherwise, SL is a primarily adult space, even G rated SL. MMOs often let kids in, though still come rated for teens. SL, if you have conservative social values - you'd not likely want your kids around any part of it.

 

[Melita Magic]

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Marybeth Jarvinen wrote:

4. I didn’t realize that G rated areas were so dangerous (even though I know that bad things can happen in RL). So I will not let my son see the computer screen when I am on SL.

Now a question:

I understand that at 13 my son can get onto certain kid areas of SL through a "sponsoring organization". Is this safe for kids? How do I find such an organization? All this is assuming that he is interested in trying it out.

Mary

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Thank you for coming back to the topic and posting your thoughts. Many first time topic starters do not.

Glad to hear # 4. I know from experience. Too bad it isn't safer where it should be safer.

I think the teens who are under 16 are or were on their school property in Second Life. Some schools have an island and teach kids there. The kids are limited to that property if in Second Life. When teens are 16 and up they can join Second Life, but if under 18, can only go on G rated land. 

I'm not sure how you would find a list of organizations. Maybe if you phone Second Life or live chat with them. Click "help" to try to find ways to do that. If that isn't possible (I'm not sure if those are only for billing or land issues), maybe you can write to them, and ask. They might not want to make known to the general public where the underage kids are at, too easily so you might have to do some digging. You might also ask his school if they have a virtual presence in Second Life.