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Issue with payout- HELP!


lestatll
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Hi all,

 

I have been trying to carry out a payout for weeks and it´s been denied two times now without any explanation. I got an email from LL saying:

 

Your recent request to process USD credit from your Second Life account balance to a PayPal account has been denied. We have now returned the credit to your Second Life account balance.

In order to process credit out of the Second Life system, your account must be in compliance with the Terms of Service. Your account is currently in need of action or review. Please contact us so that we can assist you.

Kind regards,
Linden Lab

The email contained no reason whatsoever so I did as I was told. I contacted LL for assistance. I created a ticket. After a couple of days without response I called they Billing Support (quick remark, they should really provide us with telephone pins, I think I´ve been asked less questions when talking to my bank to try to indentify me).

 

I first talked with someone name Blake who said he had no idea but that my address being missing "might" be the cause of the first rejection. So I added my RL address and submit the request again. One week waiting until it was rejected. Again, the same email with no information. Another ticket was created and I called again. This time Henry answered only to repeat the very same, he had no idea. 

Given I´d waited two weeks by then I asked him to please escalate my case. He closed my ticket and created a new one. He promised me I should have a response in the next 24 hours.

The next day, of course, I got no reply at all. I called one more time, this time I spoke with Mary H (they refuse to provide surnames even though each time I called I was almost asked to provide a blood sample!). Mary told me that the ticket that was created the previous day was NOT escalated. So she created yet a NEW ticket and this time she made sure it was escalated to the proper department and that I should hear back from them by Monday or Tuesday.

 

It is now 6 PM SFT and still obviously no answer. I called one more time and this time I spoke with Blake again (up to this point I think I´ve covered all their shifts, so I must have probably talked to all of their clerks). Blake told me what I already knew beforehand. They have no idea, their manager is busy, the team in charge of reviewing this is very busy and he told me to keep waiting. When I asked how long he simply said and I quote "I don´t have a crystal ball".

 

Soon it is going to be THREE weeks since I started and I am still stuck at the same point. Please let me mention I am not wanting to cash a big amount, it was just a couple of dollars, WAY under the threshold LL authorized med (which is 300 monthly). I have a verified Paypal account.

 

When I made a purchase of lindens, they accepted my card right away and deducted the dollars without any hesitation. There was no problem at all then. But when trying to pay out my own money I am left in absolute darkness.

 

By now you could understand that I have no hope left that when I call in a couple of days I´ll get any response other than the typical "Sorry, we don´t know, call us back later". 

 

All of the persons I spoke with (Blake, Henry, Mary H) have been kind enough, but I can´t help feeling they are more insterested in hunging up on me ASAP and closing my tickets (without solving my problem nor my authorization!) than to finding a solution to my situation.

 

If maybe someone who reads this has been through the same tiring experience and could please let me know which piece of information is missing in order to fulfill my payout I will be more than helpful.

 

Thank you!

 

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Hi all,

They finally replied to my ticket, so I guess that all my calls, tickets and this posting were not in vain. However, their response is as vague as usual:

We were unable to complete your transaction at the time it was reviewed for processing. This may be due to one or more of the following reasons:
- account status
- geographic location
- undisclosed potential risk factors
 
Unfortunately we are unable to disclose or discuss the exact reason for the decline. You are welcome to resubmit your request in 2 weeks' time, at which point the transaction will be re-evaluated.
Repeated frequent requests will increase the chance of denial. Please do not submit another payout request until a full two weeks (14 full days) from the date of your last request.

Regards,
Linden Lab Billing

I assume this is a general email sent to all users in the same situation, but the reasons of the rejection remain unclear and may vary from geographical location to "undisclosed potential risk factors" whatever that is.

 

They NOW tell me that I must wait 14 days since my last rejection or it will increase my chance of denial. Funny thing is that they tell me this for the FIRST time after two weeks of my first denial. The third request is still in progress so I hope (if they decline it) they provide me with some more detailed information.

 

I will keep you posted and I´d appreciate if anybody who has been through this before let me know or if this is a new process.

 

Thank you.

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I don't know if this is the account you are trying to do the cash out with but you said you'd been trying for "several weeks."

This account is only 39 days old.  Also, we do not know your location (not really my business) nor how much you are trying to cash out (again, not my business).

So a combination of those factors are probably coming into play.

And while yes I will agree it can be a pain not knowing what tripped a flag in your account that you can't cash out right now, I also understand why LL will not reveal what those flags are.  There are people always looking for loop holes.  (To be clear I am not saying you are looking for a loop hole.  This is just a general observation).

ETA, In other words you might have tripped one or more of LL's fraud control flags.

 

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Thank you for your answer Perrie.

If you review my posts, I never used the word "several". I just mentioned that I´ve been waiting for weeks, plural, which is true.

I have friends from my same location who carry out payouts without issue and the amount is way under the amount LL authorized me per month (300 USD).

I´m afraid I disagree with you. If a process is solid then there should not be any loop hole. Guidelines and rules should be disclosed and explained instead of having to incur obscurantism and secrecy.

I want to make clear I am not stubbornly asking for my money to be paid, but asking the reasons why my request has been declined. I deal with clients on a daily basis and I think it is neither serious nor professional to tell them basiscally to "wait and see what happens" instead of letting them know which (if any) documentation, step, period of time, etc is missing.

Today it´s been the first time in almost three weeks that I heard back from LL (after 4 calls to Support & 5 tickets) and I think that the answer they gave me could have perfectly been included in the rejection email I got in the first place.

I find it a bit contradictory that even though it looks like my account has triggered a red flag they did allow me to buy lindens right away. Shouldn´t the prohibition apply both ways and not only when I try to take my money out of SL?

I want to remark as well how the Support on the phone encouraged me several times (both Blake & Henry) to keep filling payout requests immediately after the previous one was denied because (and I quote) "it might work this time". This is completely the opposite of what LL told me today in their ticket response (this might delay the approval even more). So, LL told me to contact their support who not only lacks the knowledge but advises to do something which is the exact opposite course of action (I don´t blame the support people though, they did want to help but it was obvious they lack a proper training).

Einstein used to say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results That is exactly what I feel LL is telling me to do.

 

I do hope LL provides me with some further detail.

 

Thanks for reading, I will keep you posted!

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I'm just trying to apply my best logic to the situation.

Virtual currencies in general have over the past year come under tighter government regulation and Ebbe stated because of everything going on with BitCoins Linden Lab is now under greater scrutiny.  It must be tough because I have seen several job postings on LL's web site for people with expertise with the law in this category.

I'd love to see a little more transparency and clearer and consistent explanation but my guess is LL is perhaps doing a more than is required to make sure that they are in compliance.  And I know that they are not the only ones doing more than what is required.

If you are outside of the U.S. don't be surprised if you get asked to fill out some forms that are required here.  

On a last note I highly recommend you peak at your SPAM folder occasionally to make sure nothing from SL is getting sent there.  Don't assume if you are getting some SL mail that all of it is getting through.  I recently discovered alll my group notices getting sent to SPAM even though all my other SL stuff, offline IM's, etc, were getting to my In Box.  Crazy!

Just trying to help here. 

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HI Perrie,

 

Thanks for your answer. I know you are trying to help and I do appreciate the time you take to reply my posts.

 

I know that LL must comply with laws, that is perfectly understandable. However, that is not excuse for not having a clear procedure. I don´t doubt of the expertise of the people in the billing department. I only question the information they share with the Support Center which obviously is scarce and innacurate.

I also wonder if it the same criterion shouldn´t apply both ways, because if an account is no conditions of moving money out of SL... shouldn´t it be prevented from moving money IN? The purchase of lindens was fast and without any issue at all. As someone who works in Finance I can´t help but thinking LL wants to keep as much money as possible to work with it previous releasing the payments. A clear procedure would make me think otherwise, but again, there is nothing clear in this situation.

In my case LL took almost 3 entire weeks (after 4 phone calls, 5 tickets, 3 different support center users and one escalation) to send me a preset email asking me to wait for 14 days. I do think it would have saved us all a lot of time if they would have told me the same thing after the FIRST rejection in the automatic email they sent.

I think it is very irritating and frustrating to have a customer going back and forth between calls and tickets without any explantion. How do you explain LL advised me via email to get in contact with their support only to listen again and again the phrase "Honestly, I don´t know" or "I don´t have the crystal ball"

 

I wouldn´t mind being asked to fill forms. The only thing I mind is being asked to do nothing but wait without any other explanation.

And no, I check my spam folders regularly just in case, but nothing of LL came there so far :S

 

Thanks for your help :)

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Again, it comes as no surprise that my order was rejected. The same email they always say asking me to contact them to get more information (which of course the contact support does not know, as they don´t have the "crystal ball" like I was told by them on the phone.

What annoys me the most is that the very support center told me to enter immediate orders after the previous have been rejected which may have increased the risk status.

I will wait for the 14 days starting on now and try again. If they keep rejecting them without explanation I will seek for legal advise. It is not much money what is involved (actually it is quite few) but I am getting tired of being told to do nothing and wait or to contact persons who have absolutely no idea what is missing.

I thought LL was a serious company, but it looks like I was wrong.

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Thank you Pamela!

I am certainly getting more information here in a forum than I ever collected from LL  in several calls and tickets.

If they would have told me the first time they rejected my request to wait 14 days I would have quietly done so. Instead I had to wait almost 3 weeks to be told I must wait another two ones.

I want to remark I do agree and support they take every neccesary measure to prevent money laundering. I only would have preferred to know which requisite is missing or the amount of time I must wait from the beginning. They obviously lack of enough staff in the Billing Department or have under- trained people answering phone inquiries.

Whenever I tried to escalate this myself and talk to a manager they said they were always in a never ending (and probably non-existing) meeting. VERY poor customer service.

I think that LL should reconsider changing their automatic email to the following.

 

 Please DO NOT contact us as we can NOT assist you.

Kind regards,
Linden Lab

 

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Here we go again... As it took ALMOST A WHOLE WEEK to escalate my ticket I told them to please NOT TO CLOSE IT untl my case was finally fixed (either payout done or what requirements are missing).

 

I got a reply a day later saying "if you reattempt in 2 weeks and still doesn´t work please open a new case" It´s been FIVE tickets for the SAME issue. This is simply ridiculous. They have like 8 different tags to categorize tickets and they keep insisting in rushing to close mine as if the case was solved while the case it is clearly NOT.

 

So what now? If after 3 weeks from now (2 of wait and one of review) they reject my payout  request they want me to enter a SIXTH ticket about the SAME issue and wait for yet another full week until it gets escalated AGAIN to the proper department?

 

I start to suspect they have some sort of KPI they want to keep down or they earn money per closed ticket or something.

 

Unfortunately, it gives the impression  talking to LL it is nothing but a one direction conversation. 

In my humild opinion, LL has one of the worst service support ever!

 

 

 

Below the details,

 

April 16, 2014, 12:41 p.m.
Me

 

Please DON´T close this ticket until further information is provided or before the suggested 2 weeks time has elapsed.

 

April 17, 2014, 12:56 p.m.
Rowan Linden

 

If you reattempt in 2 weeks and have a problem with that new request, it will be a separate issue. Please open a new case at that time if necessary.

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lestatll wrote:

Thank you Pamela!

I am certainly getting more information here in a forum than I ever collected from LL  in several calls and tickets.

If they would have told me the first time they rejected my request to wait 14 days I would have quietly done so. Instead I had to wait almost 3 weeks to be told I must wait another two ones.

I want to remark I do agree and support they take every neccesary measure to prevent money laundering. I only would have preferred to know which requisite is missing or the amount of time I must wait from the beginning.
They obviously lack of enough staff
in the Billing Department or have under- trained people answering phone inquiries.

Whenever I tried to escalate this myself and talk to a manager they said they were always in a never ending (and probably non-existing) meeting. 
VERY poor customer service.

I think that LL should reconsider changing their automatic email to the following.

 
 Please DO NOT contact us as we can NOT assist you.

 

Kind regards,

Linden Lab

 

No. They have the staff but they lack any desire to deal properly with paying customers. They always have lacked any desire, and I have no doubt that they always will lack any desire. They are a disgrace - always have been and always will be.

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  • 1 month later...

Here we go again...

 

This is simple unacceptable.  I waited the two weeks they asked me to after my last payout request. As a matter of fact I waited 3 just to play safe. I entered a new request for an amount which is way less than the approved one.

 

I waited another TWO extra weeks without any reply (neither accepting or rejecting). After that I created a ticket on May 16th. I called  to Billing Support (800-294-1067) on Monday 19th evening.

 

John from Billing support answered and it was the first time I got the impression someone from the Billing Department was really wanting to do things right. He created a ticket escalating my own and chatted to someone in the "Higher department" (as they call the people who have me waiting for 2 months). He was told that there was nothing left to do but wait and they cancelled his ticket. John assured me I would have a response soon, it was even possible that I heard back from them on Monday night. 

 

That was 3 days ago. I called one more time and this time I spoke to Mary H (AGAIN, at this point I think I´ve talked to every person from Billing support at least twice). She was way more reluctant than John to help me. She gave the automatic response "Sorry you have to wait".

 

After I let her know I´ve been waiting for two months she said that the "Higher Department" was too busy to answer tickets nowadays. I kindly let her know that  was not an excuse for a 2 months delay. I then asked to talk to someone from this mysterious "Higher Department". Of course she refused arguing they don´t take calls or answer inworld chats.

 

Tired of getting this response I demanded to talk to a supervisor from the Billing Support. Mary refused to transfer me and she did not even provide me a name of her "many supervisors".

 

This is just unacceptable. I shared my story in many blogs and forums and it looks like they are doing this to a lot of people, which makes me wonder if Linden Lab is not going through some crisis and they need to retain as much money as possible to avoid a collapse. If they do, they are clearly not doing the right thing.

 

As I explained Mary, I am willing to do everything right, to provide whatever information they consider necessary, I am just asking for an ANSWER. 

 

They neglect someone who tries to do everything correctly but I do consider they are pushing people to buy & sell lindens directly  bypassing LindeX. I am not willing to do that because I think that if there is a system, it SHOULD WORK. I am willing to pay their rightful comission but having to wait TWO months without getting any other response but "you should wait,,, wait until your ticket is answered... wait until they review your case.... wait two weeks and enter your request again..."It´s nonsense.

 

I am tired of waiting. This is the  WORST customer service ever.

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For years, LL has had "the worst customer service ever", but what they are doing to you is abominable. On the two occasions I've had, when nothing had been done for months, I got them resolved by contacting the manager of those whose job it was to deal with the problems. Since you don't know who their manager is, because they won't tell you, I suggest IMing the CEO, Ebbe Linden, and explain what's happened, including the URL to this thread.

If that gets nowhere, I wonder what a call might do to, say, the Wall Street Journal, asking of they know of anything that would suggest that Linden Lab might be in financial difficulty, explaining why you think they may be. The WSJ might sniff a little story and call LL to ask, and, in the process, tell them why they are asking. If that happened, I feel sure that your problem would be dealt with PDQ (pretty darned quick).

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Thanks for your answer Phil. Yes, LL has always had a bad customer support but this goes beyond just a bad service. I do think they are through some crisis when they can´t face to cashout lindens, so they try to delay the whole process as much as possible.

 

I will im to the CEO as you suggested. It´s sad, but I got more information through the blogs I posted my situation than from their customer service. From blogs and talking to a lot of people, I knew that mine is not an isolated case.

 

It looks like Linden Lab does not only have a very poor customer support, but they also lack of a marketing strategy, because the damage they are suffering to their brand is way bigger than the few dollars that are stuck in a neverending payout request.

 

Of course, despite what "Mary H" told me yesterday on the phone, my ticket remains unanswered. 

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Below is a ticket John from customer support created May 19th trying to escalate my previous ticket from May 16th  . It was closed right away.  It´s funny he says "resi is frustrated". I wonder if they have a scale and they only start answering their tickets when they say "resi is furious"... Very lame.

 

******************

Date Created May 19, 2014, 4:20 p.m. 

Case Type Case Status Update 

Case Status Closed

 

male caller verified SQA. resi looking for process credit. resi is frustrated and wants his money as soon as possible. advised to wait on ticket per B2.

 

*******************

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Unless you really are involved in some kind of scam or laundering scheme -- maybe unknowingly, if someone gave you stolen money or something -- then yes, this is truly inexplicably bad service. If they really think you are a criminal they should say so and then cancel your account or something, not just leave you twisting in the wind after all this time. 

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Thanks for your  reply Pamela. I´ve always remarked I am more than willing to provide them with any information they require from me. What annoys me the most is they just ignore me. I understand they need to do some controls and checks to avoid money laundry, but at this time I am quite sure they are using that as an excuse to avoid making payouts or holding them back for the longest time possible.

 

And what I´ve always say is that, if my account is such a risk, why did they let me buy lindens right away? This is completely unacceptable.

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Hi Alwin/Phil,

 

Thanks for your answers. The lindens I earned in world by translating documents. I think they had plenty of time in 2 months to investigate the origins of the lindens.

 

If there was any issue they should have told me, or cancelled my account or SOMETHING AT ALL! Still, no news from LL but they are so busy now they have a greater delay to answer tickets than usual... a two months delay. 

I would advise against it, but I think that people might start trying alternative ways of taking their money out if this is the kind of service they provide in LindeX.

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After a LONG time I finally received an email from LL.

 

I was all excited to establish contact for the very first time with them.... until I got to the last part of the email where they ask me to contact them to review my account (which I hope that after two months it would have already been reviewed).

 

i called again to know which information I need to provide... this time Jake picked up the call. He escalated my request one more time (I think it´s been escalated so many times it must reach the sky anytime soon) to the "specialist" (funny how many categories they have, the "Higher Department, the Special Team etc...) and they will get back to me.

 

I find the whole process a little ridiculous. They send me an email to call them so they can escalate a ticket? Couldn´t they have done that automatically from their side? The ENTIRE process needs an URGENT review as it is VERY POOR. I´ve seen small companies with way better procedures. So... as usual... I need to keep waiting...

 

I´ll keep you posted.

 

We recently received a request to process USD credit from your Second Life account balance to a PayPal account. We will need some more information from you to verify the request before it can be approved. Please contact us so that we can review your account, and provide the following Request ID
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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, finally I did hear back from LL. They asked me to submit my ID, which I did right away (I wish they´d asked me at the very beggining and we would have saved two months.

 

I got another email saying that I should try to enter the request one more time (I think this is the 5th time) and that happened last week Thrusday.

 

As the normal standard is 5 business days to evaluate cashout orders as per the Customer support I called one more time.

 

This time I spoke with somoene who was very reluctant to identify himself when I asked his name (Bean or something like that) and told me he could do anything at all to escalate my case. I told him that many of his colleagues were able to create a ticket escalating my previous ones, but he told me this time it was different and nothing could be done. I don´t see how this time is different if I am having the SAME issue I had two months ago... He told me it should be released today or on Monday. I REALLY doubt so, but I´ll wait and see.

 

LL processes and customer support seriouosly needs to be reviewed.

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