Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Agreed. Just need to figure out how to do it in a productive way...goal is for you to see more of us soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Agreed. I've only had one interaction with the Marketing team here so far...but "why does it suggest it's a dating site" and "what do we do to specifically target different segments in different ways" were my first questions. I'll learn more as I work more with the team... Someone wrote in a diffferent thread: LL is in the communications, not information technology business; the latter is a facilitator, not the raison d'etre. And the main problem - which the marketing/community management don't seem to have grasped - is that there is no single community, but a plethora of globally dispersed multi-cultural, multi-lingual, multi-interest minorities, all of whom will feel oppressed if a non-existent majority is addressed. Marketing people, in my experience, seem to feel uncomfortable if they can't identify a single satisfactory message. That's the crux of the continuing problem. I don't think Ebbe turning up in the Forums to be blasted with demands is going to be the answer, but I am not sure what is. That's HIS problem to solve. However, I am suggesting that perhaps instead of asking him for instant solutions we should be asking him "What would you like from us?" In case you missed it, I found it carried some good insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 I've head from the team that they also would like to change it back to something similar from before...but it's not a trivial project and the question is about priority...I can't say yes or no yet as I don't yet understand all the things we want to do and how we should prioritize it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 well, that's ok Ebbe. your silence to my question (asked twice) is also an answer. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm still getting up to speed on that topic. I've had several discussions about it. It's not a simple topic. Trust me. It's not becuase we have an intent to arbitrarily profit from your stuff without your permission. That would be very bad for us as we're all about user to user. We could seriously harm ourselves if we started doing that. But, the edge cases and the potential cost to us in certain scenarios are quite substantial. Making the spirit and the language match up seems to be very difficult. I'll learn more over time but for now I can't promise anything other than what I said above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Agreed. Must talk to customers. And one must understand their actaul needs becuase that is real. But the solutions they ask for are very often wrong. Understanding the difference takes good product management skills that few have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 That's all i wanted to know Ebbe. See ? That wasnt so hard finally. i know its not a simple topic. i know that now, probably noone made these section in the TOS for the purpose to steal us, but, you can understand we are really worried such paragraph exist in the TOS, and noone cant know if one day there will be someone at LL who want to use this paragraph for bad purpose. So, for its its innacceptable such paragraph remain like that. But we understand the difficulty to find a good way to fix that problem. All i wanted to know is if you will take this problem as serious and make all your possible to find a solution that will satisfy everyone. And since you seem to have great skills for communication and since this topic is really really important for creators (dont forget that SL is a plateform where most of the contents are done by its users), i think the good path should be to find a way to have a discussion with creators (whatever will be this way) and see together what can be done that will make everyone happy. I know you are flooded by tons of things to fix and do, but please dont neglect this one, because IMHO, its a really important one. It doesnt only concern creators, but also customers. ETA because its seems ppl got wrong my first sentences. Im not satisfied with the answer i got but when i say "it wasnt so hard finally" it means "it wasnt so hard to answer and stop doing like the question wasnt here". "All i wanted to know", its because the "I'm still getting up to speed on that topic. I've had several discussions about it" in Ebbe's answer. No, i had no doubt this has been discussed in the LL office, of course, but i wanted that to be said. Things are always better when they are said clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 LaskyaClaren wrote: Pamela Galli wrote: How about making a thread for debating this topic? LOL Because it is important enough to merit its own thread? Or because it is boring you? :-D I've said what I wanted to say here. If Henri or someone else wants to start a thread on adult content in SL, they can certainly do so. And who knows, I might even look in. :-) I'm totally in agreement with you regarding the separation of adult, and as much as the topic might seem to some to require a separate thread starting, I say while we've got the attention of the main man here on this thread, we might as well just be vocal about those issues that we feel most need consideration at this moment in time. When Zindra adult continent came into being, a lot of people felt they were being segregated, or wrongly treated, pushed way, way, out of the way. I was just relieved I would no longer accidentally come across diaper fetishists or be(a)stiality themed placed, as although I am an adult adult, some days I am just not in the mood for certain things. Like you say, some days are Disney days, and some days are shoot-as-many-zombies-as-you-can kind of days. Maybe we should have a competition to see if any of us can shock/disgust/induce Sir Ebbe to vomit by showing him stuff inworld. I haven't vomited yet, but I have used several bottles of eye bleach along the way. Maybe not :matte-motes-sour: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Thanks! But not my thing. I will just have to ask someone across the hall to re-instate my account. Best of luck though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Making it work for everybody would be a dream and should possibly be a goal. But is it possible? Is too broad a bad business as it could become too little for everybody...hard to tell...sometimes you just can't get what you want. Especially hard as there will always be anti-social elements making it suck for others for no reason... I thought that was what founder Philip Linden was aiming for. Utopia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: That's all i wanted to know Ebbe. See ? That wasnt so hard finally. i know its not a simple topic. Mr. Peter Gray gave *you* the same answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Brilliant beautiful art and experiences. Tough and sad if it's not commercially viable for us or the resident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Thanks! I'm glad to hear that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Thanks! But not my thing. I will just have to ask someone across the hall to re-instate my account. Best of luck though! Don't worry about the virtual hanky panky Ebbe, I've been here for 5 years exactly (today is my sl birthday) but I've never even been near that sort of thing. And my account has never been deleted. But I am sure you can find a volunteer to keep an eye on that side of SL and get some first hand experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Jo Yardley wrote: I've been here for 5 years exactly (today is my sl birthday) Happy rez day, Jo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Agreed. Must talk to customers. And one must understand their actaul needs becuase that is real. But the solutions they ask for are very often wrong. Understanding the difference takes good product management skills that few have. But it's so fun to ask, particularly of the top avatar! All eyes are on ya, Ebbe! Whatever you do, please do NOT have focus groups. But if you do... Invite me? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Brilliant beautiful art and experiences. Tough and sad if it's not commercially viable for us or the resident. True however there are some sims that pop up now and then that are so stunning, show such a new and unusual site that it might be something SL should consider supporting or at least help to survive. It is not all about commerce, it is also about showing new users, the media and everyone else that there are amazing places in SL that are not just about playing Barbie or the hanky panky. Some look amazing or are about a very important subject. It doesn't happen often but sometimes a sim vanishes and people all over the forums are sad about it. And in these rare cases a true gem can be lost that should have perhaps survived. Because some of these sims are art and art often needs a little extra support. Often not that much help is needed and just a little Tier discount or perhaps some good advice on how to make the sim commercially viable or some free publicity on the SL site can be the difference between life and death for a sim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yes, but as we're all learning...it's hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Happy 5th! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Jo Yardley wrote: Ebbe Linden wrote: Brilliant beautiful art and experiences. Tough and sad if it's not commercially viable for us or the resident. True however there are some sims that pop up now and then that are so stunning, show such a new and unusual site that it might be something SL should consider supporting or at least help to survive. It is not all about commerce, it is also about showing new users, the media and everyone else that there are amazing places in SL that are not just about playing Barbie or the hanky panky. Chalk these up to marketing expense and use them to showcase the best that SL can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: But, the edge cases and the potential cost to us in certain scenarios are quite substantial. im still wondering what are those "edge cases" you are talking about .... and what are those "certain scenarios" . What are they and what is the probability for they happen for justifying such paragraph in the TOS (what doesnt say anything else but LL can use our intellectual property as they want) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindens Ebbe Linden Posted February 20, 2014 Lindens Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yes...and then who qualifies? It's like we'd need a museum director with funding (from somewhere)...interesting topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 We do have the LEA -- some artists are awarded a free sim for a certain amount of time to showcase their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Ebbe Linden wrote: But, the edge cases and the potential cost to us in certain scenarios are quite substantial. im still wondering what are those "edge cases" you are talking about .... and what are those "certain scenarios" . What are they and what is the probability for they happen for justifying such paragraph in the TOS (what doesnt say anything else but LL can use our intellectual property as they want) LL's IP policy reads almost exactly like Google's. It's not suprising that the law can't keep up with technology. Almost nothing can. I think the best we can hope for is that LL explains their intent. I think a lot of the heat generated by the change in TOS is the result of mistrust caused by lack of communication. I found life a lot easier when I told my clients that I didn't quite know what I was doing, but I was working with them than when I just kept my mouth shut and let them wonder. When it comes to managing IP in a digital world, nobody quite knows what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ebbe Linden wrote: Yes...and then who qualifies? It's like we'd need a museum director with funding (from somewhere)...interesting topic. Glad you agree, yes finding sims that qualify is the real issue here. Maybe we can use the Linden who works on the destination guide to help out here, there are a few great sims there. But sometimes it is also clear, for instance we had the Dresden Gallery in SL for a long time. A huge amazing reproduction of a RL German museum. It showed 'outsiders' that we care about art in SL, not just latex miniskirts. But it was also just one of the most amazing buildings in SL at that time. Sometimes you bump into a sim and just know it is good that it is in SL, for PR reasons, just to show off the latest technology SL offers, to show one of the many sides of SL, etc. Or maybe we could just ask the users. I don't know but I do know that some sims vanishing just because they can't pay the tier is not good for SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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