Reply
Melita Magic
Posts: 4,465
Registered: ‎05-28-2009

Has everyone read the TOS lately?

[ Edited ]

The current TOS may be found here.

 

I saw more than one statement in the current TOS, upon reading it today, that seems to contradict positions held within various debates in these forums. I also see violations of same constantly in SL. No, that doesn't mean I AR all of them, or even most; frankly I doubt they have enough staff to keep up with it all, since most of it is 'common knowledge' such as many skin stores having full frontal nudity in their ads on G land. I'm not even in world much any more and when I do, my 'to do list' is always long. Nor do I shop in world often, any more, because most of the current content outstrips my computer.

One thing that does bother me a lot personally, is ad spam. And it is indeed in TOS as a violation.

This is under a list of 'shall nots:'

"(ii) Post or transmit unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, or promotional materials, that are in the nature of "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation that Linden Lab considers to be of such nature;"

In the U.S. there are 'opt in' laws. I'm not completely certain, so an expert may feel free to correct me. :smileywink: But, aside from past customers, who still have a right to 'opt out' - businesses may not spam or send ads through mail or email in hopes of snaring customers. I know - direct ad marketing makes it confusing. 

Still, I believe that to be in better compliance with this section of the SL TOS, merchants in world should NOT spam everyone who walks in their shop; and should keep ads sent even to subscribers to a modest amount. Perhaps once weekly at most. This would also include clubs, who sometimes 'spam' with several 'announcements' in IM and notices several times per day.

Where this runs into the real world is that many have IMs and announcements/notices sent to email. Then it becomes email spam, for which one can serve prison time.

I wish LL would word things more emphatically or clearly on this matter. For instance I believe all drop down or clickable items which subscribe an avatar to ANY mailing list should offer "are you sure" opt out clauses. It is too easy to accidentally click on a prim, barely realize one has been added, and then have a torrent of ad spam one cannot get out from under. An 'are you sure' pop up or having to click something else to confirm, would help combat that.

Also, EVERY ad sent should contain an "opt out" clause, since that is the LAW for email spam. Most merchants do not contain a direct SLurl to opt out, or any easy way to do so. They use anonymous mailers, they have huge stores that rez slowly, with hard to find clickable panels to opt out of their subscription list. Their profiles typically contain rules about how to or not to contact them - or forbid contacting them at all. In real life, all of that would be contrary to opt out laws in the U.S. as I understand them.

There are multiple violations of the Machinima policy on youtube for just one instance. I highly doubt permission was granted by avatars who do not even seem to be aware they are being filmed, but whose avatar names are clearly visible. Also I know not all machinima artists ask permission. I had a bunch show up at my park once while I was trying to decorate it. I was told to get out of the way. I didn't say anything, but it was annoying. I was fairly certain it was against the TOS for machinima. Turns out, it was. If the land description/covenant does not mention or forbids machinima, prior land owner consent must be gotten. How many people are aware of that?

"If you wish to take a snapshot or capture machinima of content on another Resident’s land, then:

  1. For Snapshots, check whether the covenant for the land prohibits snapshots. If it does, then you need special permission from the land owner to take the snapshot. If it allows snapshots or doesn’t address them, then you do not need special permission from the land owner as long asyou comply with any terms that may be in the covenant.
  2. For Machinima, check whether the covenant for the land allows machinima. If it does not or doesn’t address machinima, then you need special permission from the land owner to capture machinima. If it allows machinima, then you do not need special permission from the land owneras long as you comply with any terms that may be in the covenant."

I've quoted, in another topic, the bit from the Maturity Ratings guidelines in TOS, about not disseminating images of nudity to minors. That not only is in TOS but technically speaking? One could do jail time for that, as well. Is the Justice Dept. going to busy themselves pursuing that? Likely not, but why are people hedging their bets on that? Just move your shops to M or A land.

There is also a bit about the misuse of bots. Notice it doesn't only forbid bots for the use of camping but also if their use is a drain on the sim resources:

"While we support the use of scripted agents ("bots") in Second Life, we draw the line when it comes to bots that cause an unreasonable load on our systems or on the regions in which they operate, or where their behavior negatively impacts other residents. Misuse of bots is a violation of this policy. Attempting to gain an unfair advantage in the Second Life search tools, including but not limited to the use of bots or camping for that purpose, is a violation of this policy and (for non-mainland estates) of the Terms of Service."

And this 'shall not' bit from the main TOS page:

"(iii) Use robots or other automated means to increase traffic to any Virtual Land;"

I'm still reading but it seems there is much in there that many of us are ill informed about. Might be good to brush up on the TOS. For everyone's sakes. 

"The world is full of nice people. If you can't find one, be one."
"The best way to simplify life is to set your priorities straight."
- Nishan Panwar
Member
GothGirl Demonia
Posts: 490

Re: Has everyone read the TOS lately?

Reply to Melita Magic - view message

I have read the TOS a few times don't really care about the TOS much I just use common sense, and not do illegal things, or well at least you know COYA when you have to actually do something.

SPAM,I hate it I know there are laws about Spam emails but for starters I get spam emails about Viaga and Pharmacy all the time with no way to opt-out. In Second Life for example I know about the merchants and owners or scripted objects they buy which registers subscribes people without agreement to a spam list I hate this and would appricate me having to click the subscribe button to join their group, or be asked first.

TOS in a BOX, Violation of Intellectual Property Rights, or TOS buying items.

People say disclaimers in profiles mean nothing so I say your FULL perm texture or Sounds or whatever you are selling mean nothing allow me to explain.

While I respect the merchants who have Intellectual Property rights and have no intention of buying your content or giving it away full permissions I do debate the legal matter that you sold them to me with full permissions then tell me that by buying I agree to the Terms OF Service, or Terms OF Sale after buying. I was not legally bound to any contract with you, and just a statement in a NoteCard or on the market place isn't legal. Now if Linden Lab would act on a DMCA take down request if reuploaded and given out full perms its likely but if a person used your UUID's on the textures you uploaded full perms and gave full perms its likely they could counter file and file a report for false statements meaning it would have to be debated in a court.

Machima, or Videos.

On my computer I will do anything I please take snapshots anywhere I please, or video, maybe even audio there is nothing to stop me from doing such. Generally I don't do such without a reason, while I might be breaking Linden Lab TOS there is no official way for Linden Lab to prove that I have taken a snapshot or video unless I start harassment of people in Second Life with posting links and such in which they could suspend/ban an account for any reason or no reason at their own jurisdiction. However video posted to YouTube, Twitter, or MySpace, you would have to take it up with them, and to be honest I have filed complaints on these sites for harassment and as long as the video doesnt contain Nudity, or Real Life information just Avatar Names they actually will not remove the video without a court order and its not in LL's jurisdiction so 99% of the time nothing will happen.

Lets just say that while I do not like breaking the TOS I have broken the TOS and I admit nothing to hide, I exposed groups of Griefers on YouTube, and constantly keep a list updated on google about people who are illegally CopyBotting, Sim Owners who allow it, and such. I am not the only one doing it I do have a few friends who help. However when we post we post their User Names, and Anonymously so there is not removal off the search engine therefore anyone who searches their Second Life name will be able to find their history and connections with such people its a simple concept and a good way to get the news around, however as it is done anonymously there is nothing that links me back to it in SL besides my word. Keep in mind this only happens to the bad griefers, and people supporting them so 99% of the time no one really cares except in a few special cirumstances.

Sexual Content & Nudity.

Linden Lab should be doing more to protect minors from this game I started SL when I was 17 years old I knew the anatomy so to speak and I knew what adult content was but what gets me is those who are younger than this age in Second Life, no Age Verification, & people who do Age Play its just sick. I believe that by Law Linden Lab should be required to verify Age or ID of each persons account and content should be sorted out between G/M/A This would mean that Linden Lab actually tries their best to keep Teens in their own rated land and so on. It should be no different than a BAR in Real Life that requires ID to enter, or to purchase alchol.

Bots

Not all bots are bad so to speak I find bots in games to be great when used with API's or used for good purposes without wearing laggy items or such bots can serve many great functions 1-2 bots on a large parcel in main land isn't so bad. However there should not be bot restrictions on Privately owned sims as this should be up to the sim owner.

To me and I have said it Since my account was Hacked by a known Griefer Group.

Linden Lab in my opinion doesn't seem to care much about Second Life anymore, I don't know if I am wrong but it seems like they could be doing much more for the residents, as well as be making more profit off subscriptions and such. Second Life is old TRUE, But it could be updated more to provide a better experience, and More security could be added for sure to make sure accounts do not become compromised along with backup of peoples inventories and such. LL seems to be just breaking Second Life more and more since I started SL in 08 I have seen many dumb things done.

1. Not require ID or age verification to get into an adult sim just say you are over 18?
You used to be required to show ID.

2. Last Names.
Linden Lab removed last names now people have to be like XXBobThe Avatar XXXX just to get a name they like then use display names?

3. Lack of Security features compared to all MMORPG's on the market today as I have explained quite a bit.

4. Not keeping a backup of peoples inventories.

5. Spyware on the grid.

6. Griefers Galore?

Change IP, Spoof Mac Address, Swap out modem to DSL connection, Grief and crash 50 sims get banned repeat all day.
Do this in someone elses name for the laughs, I know because a griefer did this to me.

PROFIT???

I mean come on I am sure residents can think of more but where is the CEO & Big cheese here. It honestly seems like Linden LabHas became as bad as Gamers First,and I know I could certainly do a lot better if I was running this company its too bad I don't have the millions to hire devs and start my own Grid like Second Life or even better because I would. These mistakes should have never happend some of these changes were stupid and pointless.

 

Posts: 5,585
Registered: ‎05-21-2009

Re: Has everyone read the TOS lately?

Reply to GothGirl Demonia - view message


GothGirl Demonia wrote:
I have read the TOS a few times don't really care about the TOS much....

TOS in a BOX, Violation of Intellectual Property Rights, or TOS buying items.

People say disclaimers in profiles mean nothing so I say your FULL perm texture or Sounds or whatever you are selling mean nothing allow me to explain.

While I respect the merchants who have Intellectual Property rights and have no intention of buying your content or giving it away full permissions I do debate the legal matter that you sold them to me with full permissions then tell me that by buying I agree to the Terms OF Service, or Terms OF Sale after buying. I was not legally bound to any contract with you, and just a statement in a NoteCard or on the market place isn't legal. Now if Linden Lab would act on a DMCA take down request if reuploaded and given out full perms its likely but if a person used your UUID's on the textures you uploaded full perms and gave full perms its likely they could counter file and file a report for false statements meaning it would have to be debated in a court.


There is a big difference between a ignorant disclaimer that states you are going to break a provision of TOS and a user license. A disclaimer is a statement that some provision of the TOS does not apply to you.  You can't agree to TOS and then later decide some of it doesn't apply to you.  User licenses are not disclaimers,  They are licenses that spell out how you can use a product and totally allowed by the TOS.  Allow me to show you what the TOS clearly states:

"You retain any and all Intellectual Property Rights you already hold under applicable law in Content you upload, publish, and submit to or through the Servers, Websites, and other areas of the Service, subject to the rights, licenses, and other terms of this Agreement, including any underlying rights of other users or Linden Lab in Content that you may use or modify."

"You agree that by uploading, publishing, or submitting any Content to any publicly accessible areas of the Service, you hereby grant each user of Second Life a non-exclusive license to access the User Content through the Service, and to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Content In-World or otherwise on the Service solely as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service under these Terms of Service. This license is referred to as the "User Content License," and the Content being licensed is referred to as "User Content."

"Your interactions with the Service" may include use of the Second Life permissions system and the copy, modify, and transfer settings for indicating how other users may use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, or perform your Content In-World subject to these Terms of Service. Any agreement you make with other users relating to use or access to your Content must be consistent with these Terms of Service, and no such agreement can abrogate, nullify, void or modify these Terms of Service."

All bolding is mine

No where in the TOS does it say you are required or restricted to only use the copy/mod/transfer system?.  As long as your license does not conflict with the TOS you can specify any terms you want because you are the sole owner of the IP. Even LL acknowledges this by having a USER LICENSE as an option on permissions on MP.

Further when you buy something in SL you don't own the item you only have a right to use it under the terms of the license you buy.

You acknowledge that when you receive a User Content License you receive only licensing and use rights: You therefore do not acquire ownership of any copies of the Content, or transfer of any copyright or other Intellectual Property Rights in the Content. You acknowledge that with respect to the use of the words "Buy" and "Sell" as used in this Agreement and throughout the Service in the context of User Content: (a) the term "Sell" means "to grant a User Content License in exchange for Linden dollars or other consideration in accordance with the Terms of Service," (b) the term "Buy" or "Purchase" means "to receive a User Content License in exchange for Linden dollars or other consideration in accordance with the Terms of Service," and (c) the terms "Buyer," "Seller," "Sale" and "Purchaser" and similar terms have corresponding meanings to their root terms. This includes User Content that may be Bought or Sold on the Second Life Marketplace web site."

I do agree with you though that if you are not made aware of a User License prior to purchase that it probably would not hold up in court.  However, if a merchant notifies you in the listing in MP, or by a sign in the shop that there is one, you are bound by it.  Generally they spell it out on the Listing on MP, or have it available in their shop for you to read prior to purchase if it is a concern for you.  And yes it is legal if the license is stated in the MP listing or a notecard.  It is even legal to say there is a User License available for inspection at (name of place or website) and that you should read it prior to purchase.  In RL you don't see warranties and other legal documents related to a product tacked up on the shelf. They are available though somewhere, generally the service desk, where you can read them prior to purchase.  Perfectly legal in most cases.

__________________________________________________________________________________

GothGirl Demonia wrote:

On my computer I will do anything I please take snapshots anywhere I please, or video, maybe even audio there is nothing to stop me from doing such. Generally I don't do such without a reason, while I might be breaking Linden Lab TOS there is no official way for Linden Lab to prove that I have taken a snapshot or video unless I start harassment of people in Second Life with posting links and such in which they could suspend/ban an account for any reason or no reason at their own jurisdiction.

__________________________________________________________________________________

So your standard is that it is OK to break TOS as long as you don't get caught.  I am also sure LL could prove you took a snapshot or video too if they chose to pursue it.

__________________________________________________________________________________

GothGirl Demonia wrote:

Lets just say that while I do not like breaking the TOS I have broken the TOS and I admit nothing to hide, I exposed groups of Griefers on YouTube, and constantly keep a list updated on google about people who are illegally CopyBotting, Sim Owners who allow it, and such. I am not the only one doing it I do have a few friends who help. However when we post we post their User Names, and Anonymously so there is not removal off the search engine therefore anyone who searches their Second Life name will be able to find their history and connections with such people its a simple concept and a good way to get the news around, however as it is done anonymously there is nothing that links me back to it in SL besides my word. Keep in mind this only happens to the bad griefers, and people supporting them so 99% of the time no one really cares except in a few special circumstances.

_________________________________________________________________________________

If you break TOS yourself how can you justify your vigilante activities regarding others that break TOS?  Through your own post here and other's you have made you admit to only conforming to the TOS that is convenient to you

Sim owners are not required to be police when it comes to TOS and you have no way of knowing with any certainty they know about the activity anyway.  If you came to me claiming it was going on in my sim why would I take the word of a known vigilante who breaks TOS herself for that?  The only way I'd believe it would be to gather my own evidence or see verifiable evidence from an impeccable source.  Then and only then would I boot them.  Don't get m e wrong, I am totally against this myself and anyone that supports it.  I just believe in actual evidence not hearsay from a questionable source.

Who are you to decide who the 'bad griefers' are and what on earth is a good griefer?  Griefers are griefers and should all be dealt with the same.  If you are the land owner defend you land from them within TOS,  Then they should be reported to the real authorities not some group of self appointed vigilantes.

Vigilantes are as bad as griefers in my book and there ought to be a specific prohibition against them in the TOS, even though the rules of conduct could be used in many cases to AR them.

I am sorry this post is so long but I couldn't let you post this without pointing out the ways you are very misguided.  You really should pay more attention to the TOS or you may find yourself in serious trouble one day.

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Pamela Galli
Posts: 6,787
Registered: ‎09-09-2009

Re: Has everyone read the TOS lately?

Reply to Melita Magic - view message

"Still, I believe that to be in better compliance with this section of the SL TOS, merchants in world should NOT spam everyone who walks in their shop; and should keep ads sent even to subscribers to a modest amount. Perhaps once weekly at most. This would also include clubs, who sometimes 'spam' with several 'announcements' in IM and notices several times per day."

 

I completely disagree with your interpretation of the TOS. I always disagree when someone asserts his right to tell a land owner what he may and may not do on his own private land (except if it creates a problem for neighbors).

If you don't like what happens on someone's private property, don't go there.

Also, if you subscribe to or join a group, you have no right to decide how often the owner may use this tool.

If you find there is too much spam to suit you, leave

 

 

Qie Niangao
Posts: 4,998
Registered: ‎02-25-2009

Re: Has everyone read the TOS lately?

Reply to Pamela Galli - view message


If you find there is too much spam to suit you, leave 


For group notices, that's fine, but I've had trouble unsubscribing to scripted messaging lists. I've never succeeded in making the IMs stop by blocking these things (not sure why not), and sometimes the devices themselves are hidden away on parcels that ban public entry and/or are protected by security orbs, so there's no way to touch them to unsubscribe, and whatever "remote control" I must have originally touched to register my subscription is nowhere to be found. The only way I've been able to get myself off some of those lists was to hint to the owner that I'd been reading the ToS.

I do think a landowner should be able to greet new arrivals by script, even without the person actively requesting the greeting. Although it doesn't seem spam, exactly, to greet them again on each visit, that certainly does make the location appear very bush-league and newbie-centric. (Also, just in passing, anybody using a script that still sends llInstantMessage() to avatars on arrival, instead of llRegionSayTo(), should really update. It's not going to lag the sim to death or anything, but there's no reason not to make a little more headroom for other scripts to run when the sim is lagging for other reasons.)

Contributor
Theresa Tennyson
Posts: 2,342

Re: Has everyone read the TOS lately?

Reply to Pamela Galli - view message


Pamela Galli wrote:

"Still, I believe that to be in better compliance with this section of the SL TOS, merchants in world should NOT spam everyone who walks in their shop; and should keep ads sent even to subscribers to a modest amount. Perhaps once weekly at most. This would also include clubs, who sometimes 'spam' with several 'announcements' in IM and notices several times per day."

 

I completely disagree with your interpretation of the TOS. I always disagree when someone asserts his right to tell a land owner what he may and may not do on his own private land (except if it creates a problem for neighbors).

If you don't like what happens on someone's private property, don't go there.

Also, if you subscribe to or join a group, you have no right to decide how often the owner may use this tool.

If you find there is too much spam to suit you, leave

 

 


Some merchants have lists that you "subscribe" to automatically by buying something, including on the marketplace, or even when you receive a gift from someone else, and don't tell you that this is putting you on a list or give you the option to decline. I think some places even automatically add you to the subscriber list when you show up. These merchants typically use a system that has no way of unsubscribing at that merchant themselves - you need to go the store of the manufacturer of the spam-o-matic customer relations facilitator and find a terminal to be taken off of it.

Pamela Galli
Posts: 6,787
Registered: ‎09-09-2009

Re: Has everyone read the TOS lately?

[ Edited ]

Reply to Qie Niangao - view message


Qie Niangao wrote:

If you find there is too much spam to suit you, leave 


For group notices, that's fine, but I've had trouble unsubscribing to scripted messaging lists. I've never succeeded in making the IMs stop by blocking these things (not sure why not), and sometimes the devices themselves are hidden away on parcels that ban public entry and/or are protected by security orbs, so there's no way to touch them to unsubscribe, and whatever "remote control" I must have originally touched to register my subscription is nowhere to be found. The only way I've been able to get myself off some of those lists was to hint to the owner that I'd been reading the ToS.

I do think a landowner should be able to greet new arrivals by script, even without the person actively requesting the greeting. Although it doesn't seem spam, exactly, to greet them again on each visit, that certainly does make the location appear very bush-league and newbie-centric. (Also, just in passing, anybody using a script that still sends llInstantMessage() to avatars on arrival, instead of llRegionSayTo(), should really update. It's not going to lag the sim to death or anything, but there's no reason not to make a little more headroom for other scripts to run when the sim is lagging for other reasons.)


If you can subscribe to a group (by touching a kiosk), you can usually unsubscribe the same way; if you cannot unsubscribe, and the list owner refuses to unsubscribe you, at that point, and not before, does it become unwanted spam.

 

Lots of people do not like to be greeted in any way in a store; that does not mean that their preference should be enforeced by TOS.  It means they should not go to that store.

 

ETA:  I have found it easy to mute the owner of a spam-send or the object itself. 

Pamela Galli
Posts: 6,787
Registered: ‎09-09-2009

Re: Has everyone read the TOS lately?

Reply to Theresa Tennyson - view message


Theresa Tennyson wrote:

Pamela Galli wrote:

"Still, I believe that to be in better compliance with this section of the SL TOS, merchants in world should NOT spam everyone who walks in their shop; and should keep ads sent even to subscribers to a modest amount. Perhaps once weekly at most. This would also include clubs, who sometimes 'spam' with several 'announcements' in IM and notices several times per day."

 

I completely disagree with your interpretation of the TOS. I always disagree when someone asserts his right to tell a land owner what he may and may not do on his own private land (except if it creates a problem for neighbors).

If you don't like what happens on someone's private property, don't go there.

Also, if you subscribe to or join a group, you have no right to decide how often the owner may use this tool.

If you find there is too much spam to suit you, leave

 

 


Some merchants have lists that you "subscribe" to automatically by buying something, including on the marketplace, or even when you receive a gift from someone else, and don't tell you that this is putting you on a list or give you the option to decline. I think some places even automatically add you to the subscriber list when you show up. These merchants typically use a system that has no way of unsubscribing at that merchant themselves - you need to go the store of the manufacturer of the spam-o-matic customer relations facilitator and find a terminal to be taken off of it.


Well Theresa I specifically stated that I was addressing people who had subscribed to a list, not who were placed by someone else. Those are two completely different things.

I am addressing instances in which someone goes to someone's land or subscribes to someone's list, and then wants to dictate how the land or list  is used. 

Perrie Juran
Posts: 9,597
Registered: ‎10-16-2009

Re: Has everyone read the TOS lately?

Reply to GothGirl Demonia - view message


GothGirl Demonia wrote:

I have read the TOS a few times don't really care about the TOS much..............................

 


No wonder you have so many problems in SL!

 


......... much I just use common sense,



There is a big difference between "common sense" and "good sense."  A very big difference.

 


............and not do illegal things

 



I'm glad to hear you've stopped hacking

 


.............or well at least you know COYA when you have to actually do something.

 


Maybe if you quit making up your own rules you have a lot less problems.

Perrie Juran
Posts: 9,597
Registered: ‎10-16-2009

Re: Has everyone read the TOS lately?

Reply to Melita Magic - view message

I was talking with a friend the other day about "griefing" and I made the comment, "there is a difference between being annoying and being a Griefer."

I will say there are a lot of annoying things in SL. 

A few of them, which I will agree are in violation of the TOS, I would love to see LL be more specific about, maybe by way of giving examples.  For instance, adding some one to your subscription list just because they visited your store would be one.

Landmark givers annoy the hell out of me.  My feeling is that if someone is smart enough to get to your location, they are also smart enough to know how to make a Landmark.

Also, I do believe that it is possible to script these landmark, notecard, etc givers to remember that you've already been there.  As well as to set timers in them so I at least have a few seconds to rez before being inundated with them.

But going back to my opening statement, we all have our pet peeves, things that we find annoying.  Sometimes it is very clear when something crosses the line.  Other times it is not as clear. 

Sadly some practices will not end unless LL acts decisively on them.  After sharing a few choice words with someone who had spammed a group with an advertisement to their store I said to them, "Spamming a group is a guaranteed way that people will not come to your store."  He laughed at me and said,  "That's what you think."