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Firestorm AO in viewer animations abscounded!!!

Wallace Wirefly

By Wallace Wirefly,
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dexter Yowman
dexter Yowman

all my animations have just simply vanished out of that firestorm ao .this stuff is starting annoy the heck out of me .in sl the right hand doesn't seem to know what the left hand is doing ! this

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Wallace Wirefly

Wallace Wirefly

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This goes to my original issue though no one has come forward to say who!!

When we receive an intellectual property complaint, we investigate it and look for copies of the content identified in the complaint. Our investigation found that you had some of this content. We replaced the content with generic placeholder item(s), as described in our FAQs on our Intellectual Property Complaint Process.

LL has what I call a 3 monkey policy which I think works well for this world.Every time LL has instigated a "review" whether a IP,Grief,Ban,or account they have received a complaint. Soooo who wants to hold up their hand ??

 

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Perrie Juran

Perrie Juran

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Wallace Wirefly wrote:

In reply to my mistake yes the viewer only is open source BUT as it is anyone with knowledge of the coding can and will COPY anything in this virtual world. In fact all one has to do is do a search for COPYBOT or mention any site that may contain a non approved LL viewer that would allow this they would probably get banned from this forum. We all know that the reason this IP replacement happens is because of this very problem. As for DMCA if one was to actually read what it involves it has grown into something that it was not intended for. IE: Media property rights DVD's. The law was written in 1998 to address issues that arose from pirated media.So the fact that the code (viewer) is open source there are ways to circumvent and therefore copy ALL content in SL. Yes one can not copy others inventory but once one obtains a copy it becomes public so in that sense most everything in SL is open. LL TOS on this is hard to discern for example :

Except as prohibited by law, you hereby waive, and you agree to waive, any moral rights (including attribution and integrity) that you may have in any User Content, even if it is altered or changed in a manner not agreeable to you. To the extent not waivable, you irrevocably agree not to exercise such rights (if any) in a manner that interferes with any exercise of the granted rights. You understand that you will not receive any fees, sums, consideration or remuneration for any of the rights granted in this Section.

Just one section of the complex rules. So the fact that "law abiding" people get caught up in the "crap" shows that this does not improve the virtual world. Creativity can not be stopped no matter how many laws are interpreted. Nor can can a thief be stopped in a virtual world.

So are you saying that people who obtain stolen content, whether they buy it or if it is freely given to them, should be allowed to keep it?  And why would the fact that it is digital make it different from if it was physical?

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Perrie Juran

Perrie Juran

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Indigo Mertel wrote:

Ebbe Altberg
just replied to my tweet on this case, saying that as far as he can tell the problem was caused by a mistake. See the Twitter thread here:

To say it was a "mistake" is putting it mildly.  It was a BAD mistake.  ;)

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Thoth Mason

Thoth Mason

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Vista Barnes wrote:

Linden labs should send an email when they replace content. There should be a list of the content replaced with the original animation names.

That will help me to identify and report it to LL and also to provide a temporally solution.

 

Nope, no e-mail from the Labs and yes, it was Vista animations I lost.  Probably from the Dangerous Man pack bought many years ago.  

I've opened a ticket with LL, but they're confused as to what the problem is.  I pointed them at this thread, but no reasonable answer has come out of that.

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Phil Deakins

Phil Deakins

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Wallace Wirefly wrote:

In reply to my mistake yes the viewer only is open source BUT as it is anyone with knowledge of the coding can and will COPY anything in this virtual world. In fact all one has to do is do a search for COPYBOT or mention any site that may contain a non approved LL viewer that would allow this they would probably get banned from this forum. We all know that the reason this IP replacement happens is because of this very problem. As for DMCA if one was to actually read what it involves it has grown into something that it was not intended for. IE: Media property rights DVD's. The law was written in 1998 to address issues that arose from pirated media.So the fact that the code (viewer) is open source there are ways to circumvent and therefore copy ALL content in SL. Yes one can not copy others inventory but once one obtains a copy it becomes public so in that sense most everything in SL is open. LL TOS on this is hard to discern for example :

Except as prohibited by law, you hereby waive, and you agree to waive, any moral rights (including attribution and integrity) that you may have in any User Content, even if it is altered or changed in a manner not agreeable to you. To the extent not waivable, you irrevocably agree not to exercise such rights (if any) in a manner that interferes with any exercise of the granted rights. You understand that you will not receive any fees, sums, consideration or remuneration for any of the rights granted in this Section.

Just one section of the complex rules. So the fact that "law abiding" people get caught up in the "crap" shows that this does not improve the virtual world. Creativity can not be stopped no matter how many laws are interpreted. Nor can can a thief be stopped in a virtual world.

Yes, I know the viewer is open source. I said that. What I also said is that having the viewer code doesn't allow anyone to affect other people's inventories. That was my point about your mistake. This thread is about people's inventories being affected. You should know that - you started the thread :)

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Zembel Braham

Zembel Braham

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Here is a reply I received to the service ticket I filed with LL about this problem. I thought I had described things clearly, but the answer is that it's a "Resident-to-Resicent" problem, as if I had received bad goods. I guess that would be true, if somebody sold me something that was actually stolen property. Is that what's implied? I can't believe that of a long-time and reputable maker. And in fact items from Akeyo and Vista were replaced, maybe along with others I didn't trace.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thank you for contacting Linden Lab. I'm sorry to learn you are having problems with some items removed.


Unfortunately, this is a Resident-to-Resident issue that must be addressed by the seller.


Please contact the Seller to resolve the issue with the product.


Unfortunately, we are not able to provide a manual refund for a product sold by a Second Life Resident. All refunds for product purchases are done through the Seller since the Seller is the one who is paid for the sale of their products.


If you feel that a Seller is selling something that is not as described, you can leave feedback or flag the item your purchased. You can find information on reviews and flagging items here:
http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Shopping-in-the-Second-Life-Marketplace/ta-p/700189#Section_.2.5


If you feel that a Seller is involved in fraudulent activity, you can file an abuse report. You can find information on Abuse Reports here:
http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Filing-an-abuse-report/ta-p/700065


We regret any inconvenience this may have caused you. Enjoy your Second Life.


Kind regards,

RenataS Scout

Linden Lab Support
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Perrie Juran

Perrie Juran

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Gadget Portal wrote:

I lost a ton of animations in my AO's too- No email.

Has anyone heard any updates on this?

I suspect that the only people who LL may really respond to about this are the Creators though Ebbe did post a comment on Twitter that it was a 'mistake.'  What's puzzling is how long it is taking to fix.  My guess is that they encountered a snafu in the system that they didn't know they had.  But that is no conselation for any one whom this is affected.

I did suggest that somene start a JIRA about the lack of E Mail notification that people who did not recieve a notification could comment on.  I can't myself because I personally have not been affected by this right now.  The JIRA could point back to this thread.

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Wallace Wirefly

Wallace Wirefly

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Okay its the holiday season I know but we just had the usual region restarts and this problem STILL exists. I don't know who started all this (probably will never find out) but for those who did...a BIG lump of coal in your stocking! I finally got smart and stored all my animations in a nice little prim hid away from the spying eyes of IP police ...ho ho ho. So now when I log on and my Firestorm AO has me spinning around I just delete the old..poof... and copy all over to my inventory drag card over and easy peasy my AO works again. Guess this is new way of using Firestorm AO :matte-motes-big-grin-evil: So guess whoever is in charge of weekly restarts missed the "where in process of correcting" thingy. Hasn't these people something else to do?? How about fixing some bugs in SL or go work on SL 2.0. Thank you creators for making life a headache here in the virtual. I beginning to think DMCA is like the 2nd amendment "its our rights!!" Ok back to trying to enjoy whats left of a free virtual world for now. Laters all :matte-motes-dead:

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KarenMichelle Lane

KarenMichelle Lane

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Recent Inventory Issues

by **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/html/rank_icons/rank_ll_employee_2.png" border="0" alt="Community Manager" title="Community Manager" /> Linden Lab on ‎12-16-2014 12:56 PM
Due to a recent internal error, some Residents may have noticed a few items were recently replaced within their inventories. We are working to reverse the process and hope to have the original items restored quickly. 

If you believe that your items were affected, please keep an eye on your inventory - you should see the original items restored soon.

In addition to restoring the original items as quickly as possible, we are also taking steps to resolve the issue that caused the error so that we can avoid repeating it in the future. We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience.

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Vulpinus

Vulpinus

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Right now I'm mad!

All mine have been taken again.

This is outrageous, no matter what some vague terms and conditions say! This is MY paid-for property!

Can't wait for live chat to come alive in four hours... since there is nothing even near this in the 'raise a ticket' options. I have done anyway,

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Zembel Braham

Zembel Braham

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Ebbe tweeted yesterday (December 16) that "Undo has now been completed so things should all be back to normal." But nothing has been restored to me.

In fact, when I first discovered this problem I went to Marketplace and bought a new copy of the AO with some of my favorite animations. I took the animations out of Vista's AO and put them in an inventory folder to watch. Well, this morning when I logged on and checked, I found that a bunch of these new copies had been "IP replaced."

So not only has there been no restoration, the problem is still active.

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Perrie Juran

Perrie Juran

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Zembel Braham wrote:

Ebbe tweeted yesterday (December 16) that "Undo has now been completed so things should all be back to normal." But nothing has been restored to me.

In fact, when I first discovered this problem I went to Marketplace and bought a
new
copy of the AO with some of my favorite animations. I took the animations out of Vista's AO and put them in an inventory folder to watch. Well, this morning when I logged on and checked, I found that a bunch of these new copies had been "IP replaced."

So not only has there been no restoration, the problem is still active.

Ebbe must not be very happy with someone right now.........................

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Vulpinus

Vulpinus

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I'm fairly sure that mine were taken again after the blog post about the issue. I have checked my inventory most days to check that my replacements were still there, and they were until yesterday afternoon.

Oh well, I just can't be a samurai for the moment. I'll live... well, my enemies will at least.

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Wallace Wirefly

Wallace Wirefly

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I placed a ticket ine about this and here's the response I received:

Thank you for contacting Linden Lab Support.

The IP Complaint process can be complicated, and even though you bought something from a vendor, vendors do not always upload original content and the item you bought may be infringed property. Here are some links for your information so you can review the complaint process and be more informed about possible infringing property

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Frequently_Asked_Questions_on_the_IP_Complaint_Process
http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/12/09/testing-improvements-to-our-intellectual-property-complaint-process

Guess one has to hire an attorney to get this resolved. Maybe part of ones premium membership should include access to a IP attorney :) As I have stated before and say over and over this IP and DMCA needs to be resolved. One wonders how this will be handled on the new SL 2.0 platform. If it is the same then I doubt it will get very far. It's complicated :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

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Teagan Tobias

Teagan Tobias

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Wallace Wirefly wrote:

I placed a ticket ine about this and here's the response I received:

Thank you for contacting Linden Lab Support.

The IP Complaint process can be complicated, and even though you bought something from a vendor, vendors do not always upload original content and the item you bought may be infringed property. Here are some links for your information so you can review the complaint process and be more informed about possible infringing property

Guess one has to hire an attorney to get this resolved. Maybe part of ones premium membership should include access to a IP attorney
:)
As I have stated before and say over and over this IP and DMCA needs to be resolved. One wonders how this will be handled on the new SL 2.0 platform. If it is the same then I doubt it will get very far. It's complicated :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

It sounds like you got a canned message back from someone that does not understand what is going on. All the animations that are missing have nothing to do with a DMCA being filed. It was an error by a process used by Linden Lab. Ebbe has tweeted that from what I understand. And yes the DMCA process is extremely broken but that has nothing to do with the animations that are missing.  At least that is my understanding.

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Zembel Braham

Zembel Braham

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"vendors do not always upload original content and the item you bought may be infringed property."

I have a problem with that argument. I had been using my animations for a long time with no trouble. After something like two years they were replaced, and I received no notice of any kind from LL. Are we supposed to believe that Vista, Akeyo, and other major animation makers have recently been caught selling "infringed property"?

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Vulpinus

Vulpinus

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Sounds like a canned message to me too. I got a much shorter answer to my ticket, similar to on live chat. Basically my ticket response said "sorry, we're working on it, you'll get them back".

 

Probably you got someone who hadn't read his internal emails for a day or so.

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