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Child AVs in a residential adult sim and non PG furniture


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Apologies if this is the wrong forum or the specific question has been answered before.

We have recently moved onto what is a residential sim adult rated by the owner.

My partner and I have furnished the lounge with sofas and chairs that are non PG. The furniture is locked to the owner only and the pose balls are always stopped so to all intents and purposes when not in use it is ordinary furniture. This furniture is obviously not used when our child is in life as her times are known and fixed.Our child now tells me she is not allowed in the room and cannot sit on the furniture and that we are breaking TOS and risk banning. Is she correct?.

Ive searched the TOS but this answer cannot be found. Would appreciate clarification. Many thanks

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Child avatars are allowed in adult sims, but they are not allowed to see or do anything of a sexual nature.

That's what I understood when adult sims were created, but there are people here with actual experience of it all and, hopefully, they will post. I would imagine that child avs should not be in places that have sex furniture, whether or not they use them but others will know for sure.

Coincidentally, not many minutes ago I watched an avatar go round my furniture store. According to its profile, it was roleplaying a 15 year old. The store contains sex furniture among a lot of other stuff. If it had got on any animations - sex or otherwise - I would have asked it to get off or shape-shift to its adult form, and eject it if it wouldn't. Maybe I shouldn't have allowed it to stay in the store. I don't know, so I'm also interested in any replies.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

That's ageplay, Dresden. My understanding is that the OP is asking just about child avs and not about ageplay.

Thats exactly the thing, Phil. And its what the OP wants to have clarified. The OP has a child avatar and wants to prevent to be accused of ageplay, just because this avatar happens to be on an adult sim.

And Dresden has given a good answer. Child avatars are allowed on A rated sims, its not even a real problem what kind of menu the furniture surrounding the child avatar might also offer besides the usual PG stuff. The problem is, as Dresden pointed out, that others might misjudge the situation and come to unpleasant conclusions, when they see a child avatar on an adult sim.

Usually I wouldn't advice any child avatar to get into such a situation...but on the other hand its a residential sim and most people mind their own business there. With enough effort to provide a good context, probably nothing bad will happen.

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Thank you for all your responses. I tried to get a firm ruling from LL support but it appears any answer is of a nebulous nature, and interpretation of the TOS is not the role of support agents..

 

KevinD S: Live chat is for technical support. I will be unable to interpret the ToS for you.You: so do I need to submit a support ticket?KevinD S: Our agents are not legal counsel so they would be unable to assist you with your inquiry as well.

 

 

 

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The OP said that the child av told them that she is not allowed in such rooms and could be banned. As far as I can tell, the question is not about whether or not a child av's presence may be misunderstand. It's that the OP wants to know the actual rules concerning it. That's how I read it, anyway.

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The OP said they searched the TOS but didn't find anything which leaves me unsure if they found the official policies.

 

Are child avatars allowed on Adult regions?

Yes, child avatars are allowed in Adult regions, as long as they are controlled by a person who has verified themselves to be at least 18 years old. However,  the avatar should not be in proximity to sexual content or activity; [my emphasis] and must obey the policy prohibiting sexual ageplay.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ#Are_child_avatars_allowed_on_Adult_regions.3F

 

Policy

There are three key aspects involved in these materials or acts that are in breach of the Community Standards:

  • Participation by Residents in lewd or sexual acts in which one or more of the avatars appears to represent minors (or the depiction of such acts in images, video, textures, or text) is a violation of the Community Standards.
  • Promoting or catering to such behavior or representations violates our Community Standards. For instance, the placement of avatars appearing to represent minors in proximity to "sex beds" or other sexualized graphics, objects, or scripts [my empahsis] would violate our Community Standards, as would the placement of sexualized "pose balls" or other content in areas depicting playgrounds or children's spaces.
  • The graphic depiction of children in a sexual or lewd manner violates our Community Standards.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

It's impossible for us to know exactly how LL would react in the situation the OP has described with the bed disabled.  But as has been pointed out we are supposed to 'err on the side of caution.'

 

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POSTCRIPT: Moderate Regions

This thread made me think of this encounter that happened on Sunday Night in SL.

So there I was, DJing at a well know Blues Family Venue with a world-wide VIP list. The music was flowing and everyone was having a grand time chatting about the music, SL, life in general and all that. My fantastic host who presents as a charming 13 yo avatar doing his thing and chiming in on the music and conversations like a great host will want to do.'

In pops a lovely fairy avatar to enjoy the music. 

A few minutes later, in a private IM from her, I get the following comment "Uh, I'm a bit disturbed by the presence of a child avatar here."

I mention back that we are a family venue and we welcome avatars of all presentations as long as there is no nude, rude or lewd behaviour. Since we are a Moderate Region and venue, I also added that those who wish present as a different age, sex, Color, Fur etc. are always welcome here.

So she IM's be back, "Well I'm a primary education teacher in RL and I just can not be seen where age-play is being practiced. I can not be associated with adults who hide behind child avatars". It's inappropriate for me to associate with individuals who practice this sickness."

I was a bit shocked at this blanket characterization of a large segment of the SL population. 

I explained to her yet again that we are a Moderate Family Region and that age-play as defined by both the TOS and the US Justice Department is not allowed here. I then closed as she poofed away with "Please do what you need to do for your own comfort."

Afterwards I wondered about her.... Where does she come off when using a smallish fairy winged avatar complaining about my wonderful host. This attitude that any adult who wants to experience SL as a child or a teen is somehow a sickness really irked me at the same level of irritation as I reserve for racists.

I just shook it off and forgot about it until I read this thread...

Just blowing off some steam...

[steps off my slippery soap box...]

 

 

 

 

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Perrie has referenced the official SL policy documents on this, and you'll just have to interpret them for yourself -- LL won't try to.    

My understanding of the situation, based on my experience of owning Adult sims and also having been very much involved at one point in debating Adult Content policy with LL (admittedly not in the context of child avs) is that so long as the sex furniture is not used as sex furniture when your friend is around using a child av, then you're within LL's guidelines.    

I would check, though, on what your landlord thinks about the situation.   If the owner of the sim objects to child avs being around sex furniture, as is his or her perfect right, then that would over-ride everything.    The landlord has a veto about what happens on the sim.

If your landlord doesn't mind, then my inclination would be to reassure your child.  But if the person playing the child avatar isn't comfortable with the situation, then maybe you should consider moving to assuage your friend's fears.

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The way I understand it is this, a child avi cannot be around or involved in sex representations. Since the furniture is locked down to owner only, it's not sex furniture. As long as no adult activities are going on, no problem. In the store, as long as the child avi wasn't using the bed as in checking out the animations and no one else was in the store, you're safe.

Ageplay specifically is sex or the depiction of sex between and an adult and a child avi. Just like in RL, if you and your partner were going at it and you child walked in, you'd stop...Same in SL.

People are reading too much into the TOS, in my opinion. Nothing wrong with the child avi as the host in a family venue.

My opinion of course, but it boils down to common sense.,

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Thank you Perrie. That clears it up for me, and possibly for the OP too, although the OP's situation is a bit different in that their stuff is locked. It's still content though.

Personally I think the key here is that there needs to be something clearly sexual in view.

There is a big difference between being in proximity to a bed or couch with no poseballs rezzed or in use and a Saint Andrews Cross. 

But that is just my two cents worth.

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KarenMichelle Lane wrote:

...I just can not be seen where
age-play
is being practiced...

...I explained to her yet again that we are a Moderate Family Region and that
age-play
as defined by both the TOS and the US Justice Department is not allowed here...

 

Is there some reason why posters here, both pro and anti, are unable to understand the difference between "age-play" which is perfectly legal, and "sexual age-play" which is not?

And I'll say nothing about the "teacher" using the wrong form of the verb; it merely confirms my experience and opinion of junior school teachers.

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LlazarusLlong wrote:


KarenMichelle Lane wrote:

...I just can not be seen where
age-play
is being practiced...

...I explained to her yet again that we are a Moderate Family Region and that
age-play
as defined by both the TOS and the US Justice Department is not allowed here...

 

Is there some reason why posters here, both pro and anti, are unable to understand the difference between "age-play" which is perfectly legal, and "sexual age-play" which is not?

And I'll say nothing about the "teacher" using the wrong form of the verb; it merely confirms my experience and opinion of junior school teachers.

Good catch Llazarus. I used her reference in my reply back to her but yes Age-play / Cos-play [of perceived younger anime/manga/game characters] are all perfectly accepted behaviours in this day and age.

Clearly Sexual Age-play is the legal issue in question.

She did indeed have an issue with a child avatar even existing because it belonged to an adult. Well her moral high-ground score chart is clear this time since she bolted from the venue. I could feel the fairy dust settling in the club. :P

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KarenMichelle Lane wrote:

 

 Age-play / Cos-play [of perceived younger anime/manga/game characters] are all
perfectly accepted
 behaviours in this day and age.


No they are not. I don't accept them, which makes their acceptance imperfect at least. I said they were legal, contrasted with my opinion of them, which is that such behaviours are indicative of deep-seated psychological problems involving a rejection of responsibility and fear of mature interactions.

Although you could easily claim that Second Life is founded on such escapist principles, and the large majority of players are afflicted  by such defective personalities, whether they use child avatars, or barbies, or vampires, or Goreans, or Dolcett aficionados or  . . . need I continue?

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SL, by definition, is cosplay...your world, you imagination. If I decide I want to play a furry dragon that's pink with purple polka dots or I want to play a 10 year old, as long as I'm not engaging in adult activities on the 10 year old, such as sex, BDSM, CARP, etc...I'm not violating the SL TOS.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Here in SL, 'age-play' refers to sexual age-play

No it doesn't.


Phil Deakins wrote:

and is understood as such.

No it isn't.


Phil Deakins wrote:

That's the language here.

I agree that lots of people have problems in actually converting their "thoughts" into coherent prose. Your own recent post in another thread demonstrates a couple of egregious errors in support of my contention.

Or perhaps the imprecise and confused language used simply demonstrates the inadequacy of the underlying cranial processes.

 

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I know you are all going to hate me agreeing with Llazurus ;) but I try to always be careful to say 'sexual age play' when that is what is meant. 

I had actually thought of saying something when I made my original post here but didn't.  Many times I do however.  I will say something like, "To be clear here we are talking about sexual age play."

While it is true that for some of us, especially in the context, we understand what is meant, I've had enough conversations with people to know that is not always the case.  So clarity can be very important, especially since the subject of Child Ava's in SL in general can be a hot button topic.

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I know you are all going to hate me agreeing with Llazurus
;)
but I try to always be careful to say 'sexual age play' when that is what is meant. 

I had actually thought of saying something when I made my original post here but didn't.  Many times I do however.  I will say something like, "To be clear here we are talking about sexual age play."

While it is true that for some of us, especially in the context, we understand what is meant, I've had enough conversations with people to know that is not always the case.  So clarity can be very important, especially since the subject of Child Ava's in SL in general can be a hot button topic.

Yes, clarity does matter, but the term 'age-play' has come to mean sexual age-play here in SL, even though not everyone necessarily understands it as such, but that's because not everybody has come across it.

The difference between 'child avatra' and what is meant here by 'age-play' here  is often pointed out.

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The TOS says:

(viii) Post, display or transmit any material, object or text that encourages, represents, or facilitates sexual "age play," i.e., using child-like avatars in a sexualized manner.

Note:

"i.e.," -  an abbreviation of id est (it is). That is; in other words; that is to say.

It is almost like the TOS is providing a specific definition of "age play", for the purposes of the TOS and Linden Lab official speak.

Age Play in common english refers to a much wider group of legal activities, including Granny sex, middle aged men in diapers and non sexual roleplaying of different ages to yourself.

The clarification on age play the TOS refers you to starts off:

"This article addresses questions regarding Linden Lab's policy regarding sexual "ageplay" (depictions of, or engagement in, sexualized conduct with avatars that resemble children). This practice is disallowed by the Community Standards due to complaints from Residents and international laws, so it's important to understand the definitions."

and concludes:

"If you are in doubt as to whether an activity may be interpreted as ageplay, we request you err on the side of caution and desist."

By my reading of that in particular the use of the words "so it's important to understand the definitions" I think it is clear Linden Labs are legally defining "Age play" to specifically mean the small subset of general understandings of the term just with that involving sexual encounters with minors.

Maybe there is some need for this kind of definition in legal documents, but it doesn't help with language or communicating what is being meant when they have decided to use the compound word in a much more limited way than anyone else does.

(They switch between "ageplay" and "age play" too - maybe there is some additional meaning in that complexity.. or maybe not.  I have assumed not)

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