Child AVs in a residential adult sim and non PG furniture

[Aethelwine]

Sexual ageplay is then prohibited using Linden labs own very narrow and specific definition.

But using the common english definition, Linden labs doesn't prohibit sexual ageplay where for example a couple are sexually roleplaying an older woman with a toy boy partner in his twenties or thirties.

[KarenMichelle Lane]

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Aethelwine wrote:

Sexual ageplay is then prohibited using Linden labs own very narrow and specific definition.

But using the common english definition, Linden labs doesn't prohibit sexual ageplay where for example a couple are sexually roleplaying an older woman with a toy boy partner in his twenties or thirties.

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I think I'd be calling that Cougar-Play

Remember...“You're only as old as the man you're feeling.” 

                                   Rawr!

[LlazarusLlong]

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

 age play has evolved to mean sex play

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Only among the ignorant and lazy.

[LlazarusLlong]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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LlazarusLlong wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Here in SL, 'age-play' refers to sexual age-play

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No it doesn't.

It most certainly does.

It most certainly doesn't.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

and is understood as such.

---

No it isn't.

It most certainly is.

 

It most certainly isn't.

---

You need to take notice of what is, and not what you think it should be.

You need to take notice of what is, and not what you think it should be.

---

 

[LlazarusLlong]

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Aethelwine wrote:

The TOS says:

(viii) Post, display or transmit any material, object or text that encourages, represents, or facilitates

sexual "age play,"

i.e., using child-like avatars in a sexualized manner.

Note:

"i.e.," -  an abbreviation of id est (

“

it is

”

). That is; in other words; that is to say.

It is almost like the TOS is providing a specific definition of sexual "age play", for the purposes of the TOS and Linden Lab official speak.

Age Play in common english refers to a much wider group of legal activities, including Granny sex, middle aged men in diapers and non sexual roleplaying of different ages to yourself.

The clarification on age play the TOS refers you to starts off:

"This article addresses questions regarding Linden Lab's policy regarding sexual "ageplay" (depictions of, or engagement in, sexualized conduct with avatars that resemble children). This practice is disallowed by the Community Standards due to complaints from Residents and international laws, so it's important to understand the definitions."

and concludes:

"If you are in doubt as to whether an activity may be interpreted as ageplay, we request you err on the side of caution and desist."

By my reading of that in particular the use of the words "so it's important to understand the definitions" I think it is clear Linden Labs are legally defining

sexual "Age play"

to specifically mean the small subset of general understandings of the term just with that involving sexual encounters with minors.

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FIFY!

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Aethelwine wrote:

 

They switch between "ageplay" and "age play" too

---

Which reinforces my opinion of LL as legally incompetent.

[KarenMichelle Lane]

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LlazarusLlong wrote:

---

Aethelwine wrote:

The TOS says:

(viii) Post, display or transmit any material, object or text that encourages, represents, or facilitates

sexual "age play,"

i.e., using child-like avatars in a sexualized manner.

Note:

"i.e.," -  an abbreviation of id est (

“

it is

”

). That is; in other words; that is to say.

It is almost like the TOS is providing a specific definition of sexual "age play", for the purposes of the TOS and Linden Lab official speak.

Age Play in common english refers to a much wider group of legal activities, including Granny sex, middle aged men in diapers and non sexual roleplaying of different ages to yourself.

The clarification on age play the TOS refers you to starts off:

"This article addresses questions regarding Linden Lab's policy regarding sexual "ageplay" (depictions of, or engagement in, sexualized conduct with avatars that resemble children). This practice is disallowed by the Community Standards due to complaints from Residents and international laws, so it's important to understand the definitions."

and concludes:

"If you are in doubt as to whether an activity may be interpreted as ageplay, we request you err on the side of caution and desist."

By my reading of that in particular the use of the words "so it's important to understand the definitions" I think it is clear Linden Labs are legally defining

sexual "Age play"

to specifically mean the small subset of general understandings of the term just with that involving sexual encounters with minors.

---

FIFY!

---

Aethelwine wrote:

 

They switch between "ageplay" and "age play" too

---

Which reinforces my opinion of LL as legally incompetent.

---

[Giggling] - Well Linden Lab is a group of techboys & girls - I'm sure they hire out the legal functions to a rent-a-corp-lawyer business. Does that make LL incompetent, well yeah as 99% of all corporate officers and staff are want to be.

From the legal standpoint, if qualifying language is used in the Introductions of various legal agreements [e.g. This article addresses questions regarding Linden Lab's policy regarding sexual "ageplay" (depictions of, or engagement in, sexualized conduct with avatars that resemble children). ] then it LL can reference the topic by the implied shorter name. In contract law, selective reading of a contract does not invalidate the earlier redefinition of a term used later in the language of the contract or in this case, guideline.

Of course the casual reader is not a lawyer but the contract/guideline wins in this debate.

 

 re: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

[Phil Deakins]

You don't read this forums much do you, or spend much time inworld. Probably because you quit for periods of time so you get out of touch. Anyone who does follow the forums and/or spends much time inworld, knows perfectly well that sexual age-play is refered to as simply 'age-play'. Of course, you may wish it weren't so, but wishing never makes something true, and there is more than just me telling you what's actually true.

That's another one you lost  They keep mounting up lol..

[Bobbie Faulds]

I've decided that Llazurus is a troll that loves to take the contrary position and then run with it to piss everyone off so...I ignore him as much as possible.

[Ceka Cianci]

 

With LL you kind of have to go with what would be the popular result of what most will think they said..

Unless you want to be defending yourself all the time from AR's..

 

Out of all they say in their policy,this is probably the best thing to walk away with,since they will ban pretty easy and people will have to prove who they are to get back in..

If you are in doubt as to whether an activity may be interpreted as ageplay, we request you err on the side of caution and desist.

[Phil Deakins]

---

Bobbie Faulds wrote:

I've decided that Llazurus is a troll that loves to take the contrary position and then run with it to piss everyone off so...I ignore him as much as possible.

---

He always has been exactly what you descirbed. On the whole, I do ignore him because of what he is.

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

---

Bobbie Faulds wrote:

I've decided that Llazurus is a troll that loves to take the contrary position and then run with it to piss everyone off so...I ignore him as much as possible.

---

He always has been exactly what you descirbed. On the whole, I do ignore him because of what he is.

---

You may both be right about LLazarus, but you are most definitely wrong about his actual position on the matter.  It's as if you honestly believe that everyone who visits this forum is well versed in SL vernacular... I have news for you... not everyone is.

While we may understand the distinction, not everyone will... which is fine for everyday conversation.  But, when discussing something as potentially incendiary as sexual age play, it's entirely imperative that we make ourselves as clear as possible.

We need not be bound by LL's incompetent action of legally defining age play as sexual age play, then treating the two as interchangeable.  Unlike LL, we should be able to understand the inadequacy of their actions and refer to the two as what they actually mean to the general public in common practice.  Any less seems inadequately inappropriate to me.

...Dres

[Phil Deakins]

I think I indicated earlier that not everyone has come across the SL meaning of 'age play'.

I'm not going by LL's useage. I didn't know about it until it was pointed out in this thread. I'm only going by the way the term is generally used here; i.e. what I've understood the term to mean - an understanding that has come from many instances of its use here, and from many expanations of its meaning here. I agree that all of the people who look here may not have gained that understanding, but that doesn't mean that its meaning here hasn't been well established.

[Dresden Ceriano]

Even within the confines of this very forum, I've seen people refer to those who choose to rollplay as a child as being engaged in age play.  So, no... the inference is not entirely established here.

I'm not saying that such use of those lone words is necessarily wrong, I'm simply suggesting that it would be prudent for all of us to go out of our way to nullify any possible misunderstanding by applying the adjective modifier (sexual) to the phrase... making that which we're referencing perfectly clear.

...Dres

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

While we may understand the distinction, not everyone will... which is fine for everyday conversation.  But, when discussing something as potentially incendiary as sexual age play, it's entirely imperative that we make ourselves as clear as possible.

---

I actually agree with Dres on this one.

We have our own lingo here, and there is another lingo in SL - which is slightly different in every different SL community.

Its always best to be detailed clear in matters that are... highly incendiary / emotionally charged / etc. Best to be very clear before the flame wars start... so that there is as little room for the flames to get out of control as we can hope for.

(and yeah... my own way of talking tends to get me into those disputes enough that... when my head is cooler, I think I can speak from experience on this one and how I'd be better served if I wrote out what I wanted to say a little differently / more clearly. )

 

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

(and yeah... my own way of talking tends to get me into those disputes enough that... when my head is cooler, I think I can speak from experience on this one and how I'd be better served if I wrote out what I wanted to say a little differently / more clearly.

)

---

Through the years, I've learned that the best course of action to take when someone writes something truly repulsive is to sit there and write them a reply consisting of the most vile, hateful things with which I can come up... cancel it, then take a walk or a nap... meditate for a while or whatever it takes to calm myself down, then come back and post something that's perhaps just as confrontational, yet more composed and much better thought out.

...Dres  (Unfortunately, I forget to do this far too often... especially when I've had a few.)

 

[Kenbro Utu]

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

(and yeah... my own way of talking tends to get me into those disputes enough that... when my head is cooler, I think I can speak from experience on this one and how I'd be better served if I wrote out what I wanted to say a little differently / more clearly.

)

---

Through the years, I've learned that the best course of action to take when someone writes something truly repulsive is to sit there and write them a reply consisting of the most vile, hateful things with which I can come up... cancel it, then take a walk or a nap... meditate for a while or whatever it takes to calm myself down, then come back and post something that's perhaps just as confrontational, yet more composed and much better thought out.

...Dres  (Unfortunately, I forget to do this far too often... especially when I've had a few.)

 

---

I have written some very scathing replies myself, only to delete them and pass on by.  It can be very therapeutic. :^)

[Perrie Juran]

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Kenbro Utu wrote:

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

(and yeah... my own way of talking tends to get me into those disputes enough that... when my head is cooler, I think I can speak from experience on this one and how I'd be better served if I wrote out what I wanted to say a little differently / more clearly.

)

---

Through the years, I've learned that the best course of action to take when someone writes something truly repulsive is to sit there and write them a reply consisting of the most vile, hateful things with which I can come up... cancel it, then take a walk or a nap... meditate for a while or whatever it takes to calm myself down, then come back and post something that's perhaps just as confrontational, yet more composed and much better thought out.

...Dres  (Unfortunately, I forget to do this far too often... especially when I've had a few.)

 

---

I have written some very scathing replies myself, only to delete them and pass on by.  It can be very therapeutic. :^)

---

The question I ask myself more often is, "Do I really want to get involved in this?" 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Kenbro Utu wrote:

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

(and yeah... my own way of talking tends to get me into those disputes enough that... when my head is cooler, I think I can speak from experience on this one and how I'd be better served if I wrote out what I wanted to say a little differently / more clearly.

)

---

Through the years, I've learned that the best course of action to take when someone writes something truly repulsive is to sit there and write them a reply consisting of the most vile, hateful things with which I can come up... cancel it, then take a walk or a nap... meditate for a while or whatever it takes to calm myself down, then come back and post something that's perhaps just as confrontational, yet more composed and much better thought out.

...Dres  (Unfortunately, I forget to do this far too often... especially when I've had a few.)

 

---

I have written some very scathing replies myself, only to delete them and pass on by.  It can be very therapeutic. :^)

---

The question I ask myself more often is, "Do I really want to get involved in this?" 

---

That is how i go about it now..

where before,i would have been all up in this thread..

After years of these types of threads,i just ask myself if i really want to dive back into this subject as i used to..

where before it was,why did i get myself into this..hehehe

 

[Phil Deakins]

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

Even within the confines of this very forum, I've seen people refer to those who choose to rollplay as a child as being engaged in age play.  So, no... the inference is not entirely established here.

I'm not saying that such use of those lone words is necessarily wrong,

I'm simply suggesting that it would be prudent for all of us to go out of our way to nullify any possible misunderstanding by applying the adjective modifier (sexual) to the phrase... making that which we're referencing perfectly clear.

...Dres

---

I don't disagree with that.

[Aethelwine]

Except the policy refers only to sexual ageplay involving depictions of or real life minors. It doesn't include cougars and all the other varieties of sexual ageplay

[Phil Deakins]

How can you tell the age of a furry avatar?

[Aethelwine]

That sounds like the first line of a joke... but I can't think of a punchline. The only way you could tell would be to ask it. You may have to also ask if they are considered a minor too. I don't know much about Furries and fantasy animals people might roleplay but in some instances certain races have much longer life spans and conceivably minors for longer. For example an elf that might have a lifespan of 200 years could conceivably be considered a minor at 30 years old?

[LlazarusLlong]

---

KarenMichelle Lane wrote:

---

LlazarusLlong wrote:

---

Aethelwine wrote:

The TOS says:

(viii) Post, display or transmit any material, object or text that encourages, represents, or facilitates

sexual "age play,"

i.e., using child-like avatars in a sexualized manner.

Note:

"i.e.," -  an abbreviation of id est (

“

it is

”

). That is; in other words; that is to say.

It is almost like the TOS is providing a specific definition of sexual "age play", for the purposes of the TOS and Linden Lab official speak.

Age Play in common english refers to a much wider group of legal activities, including Granny sex, middle aged men in diapers and non sexual roleplaying of different ages to yourself.

The clarification on age play the TOS refers you to starts off:

"This article addresses questions regarding Linden Lab's policy regarding sexual "ageplay" (depictions of, or engagement in, sexualized conduct with avatars that resemble children). This practice is disallowed by the Community Standards due to complaints from Residents and international laws, so it's important to understand the definitions."

and concludes:

"If you are in doubt as to whether an activity may be interpreted as ageplay, we request you err on the side of caution and desist."

By my reading of that in particular the use of the words "so it's important to understand the definitions" I think it is clear Linden Labs are legally defining

sexual "Age play"

to specifically mean the small subset of general understandings of the term just with that involving sexual encounters with minors.

---

FIFY!

---

Aethelwine wrote:

 

They switch between "ageplay" and "age play" too

---

Which reinforces my opinion of LL as legally incompetent.

---

[

Giggling

] - Well Linden Lab is a group of techboys & girls - I'm sure they hire out the legal functions to a rent-a-corp-lawyer business. Does that make LL incompetent, well yeah as 99% of all corporate officers and staff are want to be.

From the legal standpoint, if qualifying language is used in the Introductions of various legal agreements [e.g. This article addresses questions regarding Linden Lab's policy regarding sexual "ageplay" (depictions of, or engagement in, sexualized conduct with avatars that resemble children). ] then it LL can reference the topic by the implied shorter name. In contract law, selective reading of a contract does not invalidate the earlier redefinition of a term used later in the language of the contract or in this case, guideline.

Of course the casual reader is not a lawyer but the contract/guideline wins in this debate.

 

 re:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

---

"Ageplay" is fine; Sexual "ageplay" isn't.

Post to this forum are not legal documents of contract; hell, LL's ToS is not a competent contractual document.

If you want to discuss "ageplay" then write "ageplay"; if you want to discuss sexual "ageplay" then write sexual "ageplay".

Otherwise, how is anybody going to be able to argue whether those who "ageplay" are psychologically defective, with a fear of maturity, or whether they are simple escapist souls trying to return to a time in their life when they felt that they could almost cope.

Or perhaps Phil thinks that the distinction between "ageplay" and sexual "ageplay" is irrelevant, and is encouraging everybody to AR anyone with a kid avatar? I'm with him if that's the case.

[LlazarusLlong]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

You don't read this forums much do you, or spend much time inworld.

---

Wrong and wrong.

And I'll throw in another wrong regarding your inability to be able to type even a short post without egregious errors of presentation. I presume your senility is accelerating, although I dare not hope that it will prevent you from continuing to parade your ludicrous opinons until LL closes this forums down in conjunction with the "upgrade" to SL V2.

[LlazarusLlong]

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Aethelwine wrote:

That sounds like the first line of a joke... but I can't think of a punchline. The only way you could tell would be to ask it. You may have to also ask if they are considered a minor too. I don't know much about Furries and fantasy animals people might roleplay but in some instances certain races have much longer life spans and conceivably minors for longer. For example an elf that might have a lifespan of 200 years could conceivably be considered a minor at 30 years old?

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According to Disney, Snow White's Seven Dwarves were all minors, although most of them had beards...