Mesh - OK Game, You Win

[Tianna Burnstein]

I am going to pick one outfit that looks good on me, and wear it all the time.  Or just reset to the default female avatar :(

(Long winded post incoming, but hopefully it serves as a starting place for others with my issues)

So once upon a time I went the route of wearing Lola Tangos and Phat Azz with SLink Hands and Feet.  I looked pretty flawless on my viewer, and was very happy.  After a while I got more clothing and became an "expert" at managing texture offsets to make everything look good.  Then one day, I adjusted something, and I never got that flawless look back.  Ruined to the point of going back to traditional SL shapes.

Wasn't so bad.  I went to my old shape, modified it a little, and it looked good.  My breasts are size 60-72, butt 50-65, and I have a body fat of 7.  Then I started to try to wear mesh clothing.  Even with the alpha layers, I had to adjust my body as my curves, or body fat etc, poked though the material.  Even when I got my shape to show no exposed skin, I had huge gaps between my outfits and my body, where you could see through me because of the Alpha.

So now I started playing with other parts of my body.  Love handles, hips, muscles.  And to make this long story shorter, I just cannot get mesh clothing to fit me.

Tonight I bought a mesh body by Maitreya.  It looks great and works with my shape.  So it is a vast improvement over the flaws I was having with SL Shape limitations.  But it seems to function as just that, an SL shape.  No regrets though, I knew what I was getting and wanted to dive into the mesh body world, and am willing to learn and make this work.

Now I can buy clothing with Omega appliers, but I still have the same problem (because of my shape), I cannot get mesh to fit me.  Maitreya has a HUD where I can hide parts of my body, but they are predefined sections, and to hide a part of my body that is exposed can lead to making part of me that should be exposed, see-through.

What do I do?  Where do I start?  After reading a lot about mesh sizes, I am led to believe that one designer's "Large" does not equal another designer's.  Do I have to constantly change my proportions to the designer's definition of what I should look like to fit in their clothes?  Or are there tricks I just missed to use my shape, or modify other aspects of it, to be able to wear mesh clothing?  I just feel like I have tried so much, and may just be on the wrong track, or doing the wrong things!  I want to get away from the "painted on" clothing look, and skirts that never fit me in 6 years, and start wearing some nice mesh outfits

Again, sorry for the long post.  Hopefully the insightful answers here will help others in the future.  

Thank you for your time, looking forward to your answers!

<3 Tianna ~

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Welcome to the wonderful world of mesh clothing.  I understand your frustration because I'm really really picky about how my clothes fit.

You can do two things. 

The first is to get the Standard Sizing Package on the MP for free and adjust your shape to the critical measurements for the size you want to be give or take a point or two.  Not all sliders effect the fit of garments.  Only those listed.  Even so, you'll find differences between designers.  Some will have clothes that fit you right off the bat, while others will need some adjustments.  Always try the Demo on.  No Demo, don't buy.  If you find something you really like and to fit it properly you have to tweak your shape a bit, you can do that and save the shape.  Name it for the garment and put it in the folder with the garment.  Delete or box up any sizes you don't wear.  I have a sub folder I name quick wear for each clothing folder and put the shape, the right alpha (some come with more than one to fit better)  the garment and any accessories in it,  When I want to wear the outfit I just use that folder.

I have a slender avatar with not small but not big breasts and sometimes have to adjust my shape, particularly in the bust area.  Sometimes I need to decrease or increase my bust, sometimes play with buoyancy, sometimes with the join and sometimes with all three.  It can get frustrating because just about every top or dress I wear I have to fiddle around with the bust.  But I do that as soon as I buy the outfit and save the shape in the folder with the garment.  So I do it once and am good to go.  I have found some designers that are pretty consistent and find that one shape adjustment works on most of their clothes if they don't fit perfectly from the start.  Other designers have clothes that just have too much junk in the trunk for my taste, so I don't buy anything from them.  The bottom line for me is that I don't mind subtly adjusting my shape a bit, but if it makes me look different its a no go.

The second thing you can do is look for "fit mesh" , "fitted mesh" or "Liquid mesh" clothing.  These automatically adjust to your shape no matter what you set it for.  However in my case many times the garment seems to float a bit above my skin and I can generally get a better fit using the first method.

[Monti Messmer]

Hello, the sizes S,M,L are defined but each individual designer. Some use premades others download a default size to create clothes, but it´s still no "norm".

I never ever change my shape to fit into clothes, maybe cos i am male and we´r not used to that anyway ;-)

The only advise is to try demos until find a designer that gets as close as possible to your shape; but then you´re limited to this one shop.

All in all mesh clothes are a great thing but the implementation in SL is useless.

I´m still wearing system-clothes with prim or sculpty add-ons. Maybe use mesh when it´s not fitted (shoes sometimes work like that, hats always ...)

I´ve tried create my own mesh clothes for only my shape but even that wasn´t good enough - end of.

Monti

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Tianna Burnstein wrote:

I am going to pick one outfit that looks good on me, and wear it all the time.  Or just reset to the default female avatar

(Long winded post incoming, but hopefully it serves as a starting place for others with my issues)

So once upon a time I went the route of wearing Lola Tangos and Phat Azz with SLink Hands and Feet.  I looked pretty flawless on my viewer, and was very happy.  After a while I got more clothing and became an "expert" at managing texture offsets to make everything look good.  Then one day, I adjusted something, and I never got that flawless look back.  Ruined to the point of going back to traditional SL shapes.

Wasn't so bad.  I went to my old shape, modified it a little, and it looked good.  My breasts are size 60-72, butt 50-65, and I have a body fat of 7.  Then I started to try to wear mesh clothing.  Even with the alpha layers, I had to adjust my body as my curves, or body fat etc, poked though the material.  Even when I got my shape to show no exposed skin, I had huge gaps between my outfits and my body, where you could see through me because of the Alpha.

So now I started playing with other parts of my body.  Love handles, hips, muscles.  And to make this long story shorter, I just cannot get mesh clothing to fit me.

Tonight I bought a mesh body by 

Maitreya.  It looks great and works with my shape.  So it is a vast improvement over the flaws I was having with SL Shape limitations.  But it seems to function as just that, an SL shape.  No regrets though, I knew what I was getting and wanted to dive into the mesh body world, and am willing to learn and make this work.

Now I can buy clothing with Omega appliers, but I still have the same problem (because of my shape), I cannot get mesh to fit me.  

Maitreya has a HUD where I can hide parts of my body, but they are predefined sections, and to hide a part of my body that is exposed can lead to making part of me that should be exposed, see-through.

What do I do?  Where do I start?  After reading a lot about mesh sizes, I am led to believe that one designer's "Large" does not equal another designer's.  Do I have to constantly change my proportions to the designer's definition of what I should look like to fit in their clothes?  Or are there tricks I just missed to use my shape, or modify other aspects of it, to be able to wear mesh clothing?  I just feel like I have tried so much, and may just be on the wrong track, or doing the wrong things!  I want to get away from the "painted on" clothing look, and skirts that never fit me in 6 years, and start wearing some nice mesh outfits

Again, sorry for the long post.  Hopefully the insightful answers here will help others in the future.  

Thank you for your time, looking forward to your answers!

<3 Tianna ~

---

There are two common sizing systems in SL - the "standard sizing" system, with sizes from XXS to L, and the system mesh maker Meli Imako uses, which has sizes from XS to XL. They're fairly close at smaller sizes but differ quite a bit in the large sizes - larger standard sizes tend to add mass all around the body while Meli Imako's large sizes have larger breasts and butts but generally add very little to the midsection.  From the sound of things you'll probably want to look for Meli Imako-based clothes first.

Also you should check out clothes makers who have an extended size range - off the top of my head I'd suggest Lapointe & Bastchild, Happy Undead and Hucci.

As far as the common SL bugaboo that goes "I'm never going to change my shape to fit into clothes" -- I work with and make clothing in real life. Clothing can and often does change the shape of your body when you're wearing it. The human body is malleable and a tight-fitting garment will rearrange things substantially. I think of changing one's shape as the SL version of this.

[Perrie Juran]

 

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

 Clothing can and often does change the shape of your body when you're wearing it.

The human body is malleable and a tight-fitting garment will rearrange things substantially.

---

 

[Tazzie Tuque]

For me this is a loaded topic!  I am one who swore I would NEVER mess with the shape it took me almost 7 years to perfect, so when mesh came out if the alpha and the fit wasn't perfect on the demo.. I would not buy the item period.  But as I am also a clothing designer I realized that if I didn't get into producing some mesh designs I would be left behind in the dust so to speak.  So  I had to find a way to change my views and practices without compromising my oh so carefully crafted avatar.

First I have to say that due to my 3D mesh software not being able to save in the format that LL has decided must be used,  I am not able to bring my own mesh work into SL (I tried the uploading .obj from my program to blender and converting the format then uploading it to SL..  what a mess!  gave up on that one).  Now I use premade mesh templates available on MP.  Some of them are incredibly high priced so most times I can't use those to work with as I can't afford to buy them so I have to do with the ones that are in my price range.  And I would never consider using a template without a demo first..  except for Meli's  mesh templates.. no demo but a money back guaranteee if it doesn't work for me..  I use a lot of her templates and never have had to ask for my money back.

I too use the tweak method to get a good body fit,  and save it in the folder with the outfits for personal use, and send a note card out with my items for sale outlining how to adjust little tweaks on the body that no one will really notice anyhow since the mesh actually defines the shape say of a dress or skirt or pants or top.  This works for me and many of my customers.. I does not work for those who have a NO Mod shape..  which is sad,  I have never understood why shape makers do that,  put a shape out No Mod.  I made my own shape from sacratch 9 years ago when I came into SL,  and I have only tweaked it a bit here and there since then..  and yes it takes me weeks when I want to change skins to find one that flatters my shape, especially facial, and head.

With the advent of add on boobs and butts,  I had to decide if I wanted to get on the band wagon and make appliers for these.. what a night mare that was!  First there are a few add on part designers and you have to decide which appliers you are going to make,  if I did all of them,  the time alone making these would make the outfit way too expensive to sell.  So I opted not to offer appliers,  I know that cuts down on my potential customer base but I make clothes because I enjoy designing the fabrics,  textures etc. I also depend on sales to supplement my RL income so it is a delema to be sure. Now that mesh bodies are coming out, this presents a whole new kettle of fish for me as a designer.

I guess what I am trying to say is there is no covering all the bases for me, so I am sticking with what works for me and my avie personally and if my outfits work for others,  yay!!!  I might make a sale or two.. and I always offer demos,  and hope folks use them before buying. 

The game will always win when it comes to mesh;  because there is someone out there who will alwyas be "upping the anti"..  as a consumer I ignore what doesn't work for me, and do the best I can with what does.  And yes "Standard" is approximate at best and simply won't work for some folks..  I do appologize for not being able to accomodate those folks as a designer.

[Lisette Seranno]

My story is similar to yours except I discovered mesh bodies with the WowMeh and knew this was exactly what I was looking for with mesh parts. I always liked mesh but had to give it up with all the mesh parts.

 

But now I can wear mesh most of the time. I say most of the time because no matter what body you have none have a perfect alpha system. But here's what I did, pick a nice mesh outfit then size yourself down to a particular size without using the alpha. I use Small sizes, but sometimes I wear an XS. It depends on the maker. Now only apply the alpha to the parts that are breaking the mesh.

 

When I'm not wearing mesh I'm pretty curvy when I wear mesh I shrink down a bit. So I have what I call a thick shape and a mesh shape in my folder. Hope that helps.

[CadenzaInVivace]

Standard sizing is completely retarded so it's not you doing something wrong, it's the creators behind this sh*tty template.

XXS = no boobs, no butt, no belly

XS = no boobs, no butt, some belly

S = no boobs, no butt, quite a bit of belly

M = tiny boobs, tiny butt, lots of belly

L = tiny boobs, some butt, tons of belly

The f*ck? Basically the only thing that increases in size is belly size. How many people in SL do you see with stomach/fat value at anything other than 0, or at most 10? Basically if you want a lean model-like figure with ample breasts/butt, then no mesh clothing will fit that shape, despite the fact that 90% of the people I see in SL do tend to have supermodel-ish figures. This is why I rarely if ever buy the stuff in "standard sizing" because they all turn you into either a super skinny flat-chested genderqueer or an overweight boob-lover. Who plays SL to dress up as an "average jane"? There may be some people who has a fetish at achieving a 100% "RL" look but unfortunately you're the minority.

[Okami Aquila]

Yes, I have learned that with most mesh clothing it is best to go the route of saving a shape specifically for that mesh, simply because many designers do not use the standard clothing sizes. 

[Okami Aquila]

I think that this has happened to many of us that are trying out the whole mesh clothing thing and I know for the first time that I tried it, I hated it and was going to give up wearing mesh clothes completely. I am glad to say that that did not happen and I am able to wear my shape with minor adjustments to the torso and leg areas of it. I felt the same way and actually still do about finding that perfect shape after years of tweaking and shopping around. I finally found it last year and will not trade it. Much of the mesh clothing that I have and that I manage to find fit well when it comes to most tops there might be a leak here and there in the alpha layer but it's not too bad. I also think that mesh body designers are getting a little better about how they make their alphas so I have hope that that part will definitely get better. 

 

Okami Aquila

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"Just Do You"

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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CadenzaInVivace wrote:

Standard sizing is completely retarded so it's not you doing something wrong, it's the creators behind this sh*tty template.

XXS = no boobs, no butt, no belly

XS = no boobs, no butt, some belly

S = no boobs, no butt, quite a bit of belly

M = tiny boobs, tiny butt, lots of belly

L = tiny boobs, some butt, tons of belly

The f*ck? Basically the only thing that increases in size is belly size. How many people in SL do you see with stomach/fat value at anything other than 0, or at most 10? Basically if you want a lean model-like figure with ample breasts/butt, then no mesh clothing will fit that shape, despite the fact that 90% of the people I see in SL do tend to have supermodel-ish figures. This is why I rarely if ever buy the stuff in "standard sizing" because they all turn you into either a super skinny flat-chested genderqueer or an overweight boob-lover. Who plays SL to dress up as an "average jane"? There may be some people who has a fetish at achieving a 100% "RL" look but unfortunately you're the minority.

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Here are the standard measurements for standard sizing.    As you can see all the measurements increase with the size.  I don't consider any of these to have no or tiny boobs if your body is in the correct proportions.  Of course if you are into the humongous mesh breasts and butts, then I can see why you think that, but from my side those are way out of proportion compared to most females.  But to each his own.

-XXS

Body Fat: 0

Torso Muscle: 21

Breast Size: 32

Love Handles: 22

Belly Size: 0

Leg Muscle: 40

Butt Size: 24

Saddle Bags: 22

Knee Angle: 50

-XS

Body Fat: 5

Torso Muscle: 31

Breast Size: 48

Love Handles: 25

Belly Size: 2

Leg Muscle: 45

Butt Size: 34

Saddle Bags: 30

Knee Angle: 50

-S

Body Fat: 7

Torso Muscle: 35

Breast Size: 52

Love Handles: 28

Belly Size: 3

Leg Muscle: 50

Butt Size: 38

Saddle Bags: 33

Knee Angle: 50

-M

Body Fat: 11

Torso Muscle: 38

Breast Size: 58

Love Handles: 31

Belly Size: 6

Leg Muscle: 56

Butt Size: 44

Saddle Bags: 36

Knee Angle: 50

-L

Body Fat: 24

Torso Muscle: 48

Breast Size: 71

Love Handles: 39

Belly Size: 14

Leg Muscle: 69

Butt Size: 62

Saddle Bags: 45

Knee Angle: 50

[amaridiricchezi]

I understand the frustration with mesh. My main avatar was here since 2004 and I put off buying mesh because I did not want to alter my shape. Eventually I gave in because the designers made really great graphic in mesh, if you can get it to fit well.  Recently I started to try some fitted mesh where the garment fits the figure, you don't have so much to make the figure fit the garment.  I am seeing that it seems poor taste to mention specific designers, but I have found a few that I really enjoy.  Maybe that might be something you find a good alternative ! 

[Suki Hirano]

Lol body fat 24. Question to the creators of this standard sizing, how many people in SL did you meet with a body fat value of 24, especially in more popular places since that's where consumers go? Now how many people do you see with a boob size of 71? Boob size of 71 is large yes, but not crazily large. Most supermodels have boobs that large, especially lingerie/swimwear models, or if you just want to look sexy.

So the conclusion is that "standard sizing" should be called "1950s real life sizing".